AROUND THE LEAGUE - 25-26

[Hockey Widow]

But at the end of the day none of these players will make or break any Cup intentions.

I wonder if being Russian has anything to do with it? Or the coach's ability to reach them?

One thing I liked about Bruce was he always said players have to play to their strength about what got them to the NHL. Unfortunately he could not coach defence.

[Meds]

I want a coach who uses the strength of the players they have and not try to change them to fit a style that will end up failing.

Not saying you can’t hold players accountable.

You look at Berube in Toronto and could argue that the Leaves played a more successful style of play - if only they had a blueline and goalie. Even Knoblauch seems to have succeeded in getting the Coilers to play more responsibly while their two stars haven't suffered statistically. It's possible to rein in your stallions and get them all moving in a direction that plays to their strengths - and still fall short.

Coaching will only do so much. If the roster can't succeed, even in a system designed by the coach to play to their strengths with buy-in from the players, then it's the roster's (and management's) fault.

The 23-24 season showed that the team could succeed with Tocchet's system. Even with Demko out and Petey not playing nearly 100%, they still took Edmonton to 7 games in the 2nd round. The problem is that last season showed his system isn't resilient enough to succeed unless everything went right. As soon as his top-2 centres decided to implode and his starting goalie was gone to injury, the cracks rapidly started to show and Tocchet evidently had no effective answer.

I think that's what people are saying here is that personnel is as important as the coach, and the roster, as well as the cupboard that stocks it, is going to depend upon the stage of build a team is at as well as the ability of management to draft and develop shrewdly.

Toronto is proof that you need depth that can contribute. Matthews and Marner were not terrible defensively, Marner in particular was a solid 200 foot, all situations, 100 point winger. But their roster was unbalanced. Even still, if you took Matthews and Marner's seasons and replaced their play and stat lines with Pettersson's and Miller's, Toronto almost certainly misses the playoffs. I actually don't know a coach who has a system that can survive the implosion of their top 2 forwards (particularly when they are both centermen), as well lose their starting goaltender for the majority of the season.....and when he was playing he just wasn't to form.

[Meds]

But at the end of the day none of these players will make or break any Cup intentions.

I wonder if being Russian has anything to do with it? Or the coach's ability to reach them?

One thing I liked about Bruce was he always said players have to play to their strength about what got them to the NHL. Unfortunately he could not coach defence.

That's the rub, and that is where a coach's ability to motivate and create buy-in, is so important. You have to put something together that takes full advantage of your players' strengths, but you also have to do it in a way that doesn't exploit their own weaknesses.

[Madcombinepilot]

But at the end of the day none of these players will make or break any Cup intentions.

I wonder if being Russian has anything to do with it? Or the coach's ability to reach them?

One thing I liked about Bruce was he always said players have to play to their strength about what got them to the NHL. Unfortunately he could not coach defence.

That's the rub, and that is where a coach's ability to motivate and create buy-in, is so important. You have to put something together that takes full advantage of your players' strengths, but you also have to do it in a way that doesn't exploit their own weaknesses.

That buy in comes from team culture and cohesion. When you churn 2/3 the roster every 14 months, you can not create that. When you have a division in the room, you can not overcome that.


One of the best things this management group did is got rid of every one on the JT side of the coin before the deadline. (I honestly didn’t care which side of said coin they cleaned out, they just had to wipe out one side completely) and then they didn’t churn a further 1/3 of the roster in the off season.

This is the first time in about a decade that the team only has a handful of new faces. This is a good thing.

[JelloPuddingPop]

This is the first time in about a decade that the team only has a handful of new faces. This is a good thing.

While I do agree with you in that keeping chemistry in the room, and letting the team get better by not churning players each year... I don't agree with your last statement.

This team is at least 2 impact players, and 2-3 good players away from any sort of contention. They still need to add new faces, which will likely take away old ones, as not all their problems are going to be solved via UFA.

Once that is solved, then you let them battle it out, get to, and lose in the playoffs a couple of years, trial by combat - and hopefully then they will be ready, and mgmt. won't have to churn the team each year.

[Madcombinepilot]

This is the first time in about a decade that the team only has a handful of new faces. This is a good thing.

While I do agree with you in that keeping chemistry in the room, and letting the team get better by not churning players each year... I don't agree with your last statement.

This team is at least 2 impact players, and 2-3 good players away from any sort of contention. They still need to add new faces, which will likely take away old ones, as not all their problems are going to be solved via UFA.

Once that is solved, then you let them battle it out, get to, and lose in the playoffs a couple of years, trial by combat - and hopefully then they will be ready, and mgmt. won't have to churn the team each year.

JPP, I don't mean not to have player movement. teams will (and should) always have 3-4 new faces a year, as well as a couple call ups covering off injuries.

Its the 12-16 player churn that we have seen the last few years that has to stop. If they have cut out the cancer in the room (JT), then they need ot build that culture to get the cohesion.

[JelloPuddingPop]

This is the first time in about a decade that the team only has a handful of new faces. This is a good thing.

While I do agree with you in that keeping chemistry in the room, and letting the team get better by not churning players each year... I don't agree with your last statement.

This team is at least 2 impact players, and 2-3 good players away from any sort of contention. They still need to add new faces, which will likely take away old ones, as not all their problems are going to be solved via UFA.

Once that is solved, then you let them battle it out, get to, and lose in the playoffs a couple of years, trial by combat - and hopefully then they will be ready, and mgmt. won't have to churn the team each year.

JPP, I don't mean not to have player movement. teams will (and should) always have 3-4 new faces a year, as well as a couple call ups covering off injuries.

Its the 12-16 player churn that we have seen the last few years that has to stop. If they have cut out the cancer in the room (JT), then they need ot build that culture to get the cohesion.

Got it, and I 100% agree - certainly too much turnover, too quickly for the leadership group/coaches to have any kind of handle on. Hard to build culture that way.

Would love to see Van bring in a couple more pieces, even if they can't afford that 2nd line centreman this year - a couple of culture carriers would really go a long way. Some ex-champs, or like they have done previously with guys like Zadorov, Shenn, Malhotra, Pearson, Toffoli etc. They need to stop with the plugs like Spooner, Dahlen, Lamikko etc. Spot fillers with no other value.

[Meds]

If Pettersson goes back to that 82+ point center, and keeps up his 200 foot game, then we already have 1 of the 2 impact players we need.

The off-season changes, and the existing blueline, I'd say we only need 1 or 2 good players, added.

If impact players are what we refer to as Tier 1, and good players are Tier 2......

Tier 1 players will make Tier 2 players better, and they also have a knack of turning Tier 3 players into Tier 2 players.

For the remainder of this post I will operate under the assumption (and hope) that Pettersson will return to 2023 form.

We have 2 impact players. Hughes and Pettersson.

We have Boeser, Garland, Hronek, and maybe Meaty, as Tier 2 players. All of them play at an elite level in this Tier when playing with players of similar or better talent.

Kane, DeBrusk, Myers, and D-Pete, are Tier 3 players on their own.....but they are very good Tier 3. Kane and DeBrusk are both solid Tier 2 players if they were playing with 2023 Petey. If D-Pete continues to progress he will be a Tier 2 player in his own right. Myers is also a very good Tier 3 player who has flashes of Tier 2 (or maybe it is that he is an average Tier 2 player who has flashes of Tier 3?).

When the above players are playing at their best it creates, potentially, the opportunity for guys like Hoglander, Raty, Chytil, and Sherwood, to play at a Tier 3 level....the first 3 names actually have the skill to be decent 2nd line forwards with the right linemates and chemistry.

Blueger, O'Connor, and Karlsson, strike me as utility players who peak as 3rd line players and are easily replaced in free agency or via trade, but are better suited to 4th line duty who can become NHL regulars by focusing on becoming PK and forechecking specialist.

I think that MANY teams are in a similar position.....searching for that 3rd Tier 1 player. It's a hard thing to do in a cap world, even with the year-over-year increases that are currently forecast. Where things differ for the Canucks is that we have Pettersson being paid to be an impact player but we don't know if that is what we will have going forward in him.....we also have to factor Hughes pending extension, the cost of that, and how we acquire another impact forward to replace the gaping hole left by Miller.

[Cornuck]

^ interesting post, but can we add a healthy Demko as a Tier 1 player, who makes those around him better?

[Meds]

^ interesting post, but can we add a healthy Demko as a Tier 1 player, who makes those around him better?

I wasn't including goaltenders. They can make teams better by inspiring confidence and giving that morale boost by making a huge timely save, but they don't elevate the play of linemates.

Teams need 3 impact players and a goaltender who, if not truly elite, can at least play at a "Tier 1" level for stretches.

[JelloPuddingPop]

Mëds Post

I was specifically talking about being in contention, meaning for a Cup. Not just making the playoffs and hoping for some luck/hockey god's blessing.

Also, I was counting Petey as one of our impact players, as he is one - just didn't play like it last year, and wasn't healthy for a portion of year prior.

And, though I didn't mention it - I was specifically talking about Van's forward group. I do actually think the defense, coupled with the goalie tandem (if healthy) they have is good enough.

I don't count the likes of Raty, Karlsson as players who could be "good" when playing with impact players. They are depth, or placeholders at this point. Could they turn into 2nd liners? No way. 3rd? Perhaps, if everything goes right for them. Not on a contending team in the next year or so though.

Kane is a wild card. He is the one player I think could go from good to impact at certain points in the season, though likely not for the whole season. Same with DeBrusk.

I also think, having only "good" players - in places you need "impact" players, and "placeholders" in place of "good" players takes away from the team's overall ability to compete, and would put a negative on that line, not just a zero. IE: Having Chytil as a 2nd line center. As well Raty if he ends up as the 3rd line.

The team is currently built like this (relative to their current spot in the lineup):

Good - Impact - Good
Good - Placeholder (for 2nd line) - Good
Good - Placeholder - Good
Placehold - Placeholder - Placeholder

Where as to complete, as least it should be ranked as follows:

Good - Impact - Impact
Good - Impact - Good
Good - Good - Placeholder
Placeholder - Good - Placeholder

Hence my assertion that this team is 2 impact players, and at least 2-3 good players away from contention - at forward alone.

[Madcombinepilot]

This is the first time in about a decade that the team only has a handful of new faces. This is a good thing.

While I do agree with you in that keeping chemistry in the room, and letting the team get better by not churning players each year... I don't agree with your last statement.

This team is at least 2 impact players, and 2-3 good players away from any sort of contention. They still need to add new faces, which will likely take away old ones, as not all their problems are going to be solved via UFA.

Once that is solved, then you let them battle it out, get to, and lose in the playoffs a couple of years, trial by combat - and hopefully then they will be ready, and mgmt. won't have to churn the team each year.

JPP, I don't mean not to have player movement. teams will (and should) always have 3-4 new faces a year, as well as a couple call ups covering off injuries.

Its the 12-16 player churn that we have seen the last few years that has to stop. If they have cut out the cancer in the room (JT), then they need ot build that culture to get the cohesion.

Got it, and I 100% agree - certainly too much turnover, too quickly for the leadership group/coaches to have any kind of handle on. Hard to build culture that way.

Would love to see Van bring in a couple more pieces, even if they can't afford that 2nd line centreman this year - a couple of culture carriers would really go a long way. Some ex-champs, or like they have done previously with guys like Zadorov, Shenn, Malhotra, Pearson, Toffoli etc. They need to stop with the plugs like Spooner, Dahlen, Lamikko etc. Spot fillers with no other value.

I think the Management plan has really become clear these last couple months. In hindsight, they decided to build a competitive team from the net outwards.

Comparing our Defense and goal to that of a couple years ago (Hughes, Myers, Soucy, Cole, Poolman and Dermot) to today is night and day. We have arguably a top 5 back end in the league in terms of talent, and depth. the current top 8 (Hughes, Hronek, Mp3, Myers, Dpete, Forbort, Mancini, Willander, #9 veteran pine rider, and then Kudrytsev and Mynio coming up) is a top 5 in the league. The goalie tandem (if Demko is healthy) is top 3.

They then arranged to have cap space and did not immediately spend to the limit on guys that simply do not move the needle on upgrades (like past regimes). If an opportunity to improve a position (like 2C), they will do it - and not have to sell the future to do so. Heck, if they rode the 3M of cap space to TDD (which I do not expect them to do) and then simply used it as '3rd party, 1 year cap dump' for picks, I am cool with that as they are positioned to have 10m in cap space next year, without any real change to the core or back end. A team can do a lot with 10m of cap space... jus sayn.

We are a wildcard team right now that could potentially gel and win a lot of 2-1 and 3-2 boring defensive games, if the systems match the players.


<edit>

I think that MANY teams are in a similar position.....searching for that 3rd Tier 1 player. It's a hard thing to do in a cap world, even with the year-over-year increases that are currently forecast.

...10mil in cap space goesa long way if managment gets it right...

[Meds]

While I don’t fully agree with the absolute need for 3 “impact-level” forwards, we definitely need more than we have to even make the playoffs.

We are a wildcard team with an 82+ point EP40. We are on the outside looking in with Scooter circa 2024-25.

If Pettersson manages 60ish points with the same play as last year, Boeser, DeBrusk, and/or Kane, whichever wingers land with him, will also have seasons where they clip at 50ish points again. That leaves us where we were last year.

20 more points from EP means 10-15 more points from at least 2 of those guys, which puts us in a wildcard spot.

Add another forward of that calibre, preferably a C, and we are looking at a group similar to the team that won the division 2 years ago…..but with a better top-4 defense group.

[Megaterio Llamas]

Looks like Stevie Y just landed the Wings ol' Hambone

[Tciso]

Looks like Stevie Y just landed the Wings ol' Hambone

He was always a weak link in a strong defense. Always a bit over-rated, imo