Just What Do the Sedins Do?

[rikster]

It's a good post, a question to consider and a solid discussion point.

A great off season topic.

I hope it gets the roll it deserves.

I don't really look at Toppers query as Sedin bashing as Blob indicates but rather a question of whether anticipated roi is in play with respect to what was expected when they were brought in considering what their ultimate talents were.

Preparation.
Dedication.
Focused direct approach.
Fitness.
Leadership.
Puck control.
Skill.

Are they actually able to transition the best of them to the "new age" player?

Is there a generational issue here with an entitled, new age player personality?

Does the immediacy of financial return in the evolving cap market create a player that figures he's "got it made" and doesn't require or desire finite directives?

Or...

Are they more lead by example individuals as opposed to chalk board X and O guys?

This is a topic for consideration and discussion and, like the DeBrusk conversation I want to have with UW deserves more of my time to offer a considered response.

Busy life...I hope I find it.

Good post Topper.

Yup, good post except for the part where he can't be bothered to learn what their role has been since they retired...

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/vancouver ... rd-canucks

Take care...

PR fluff piece that highlights my points and their failures at developing the younger players.

As I noted, this goes back to their playing days. Who did Bo learn what it takes to be a Captain in the NHL?

If you want to take issue with how effective they have been working with the farm team, then give us some rationale and examples for the criticism..

But using fitness levels of players on the parent team to bash their work with minor league players is to be very polite, pretty dumb...

Trying to make light of the high praise they have received for their work with the kids as PR fluff is to be very polite, pretty ignorant...

Take care...

Easy, those players are still in the AHL. Why aren't they making the big club? Why is management having to bring in a bunch of 27-30 year olds from other organizations instead of promoting the youth that the Twins have been tutoring?

Results matter.

Might be best to stop digging the hole and just give it a rest...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canucks ... tant-coach

[Topper]

Might be best to stop digging the hole and just give it a rest...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canucks ... tant-coach

Show me their track record to date. Who have they developed in their time so far? How many years do they get?

I've catalogued a list of failures. Show me their success stories.

Results matter.

[rikster]

Might be best to stop digging the hole and just give it a rest...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canucks ... tant-coach

Show me their track record to date. Who have they developed in their time so far? How many years do they get?

I've catalogued a list of failures. Show me their success stories.

Results matter.

You don't even know what their role with the team has been and you've catalogued a list of their failures...

Need a second shovel?

[Topper]

You don't even know what their role with the team has been and you've catalogued a list of their failures...

Need a second shovel?

As I noted and your lack of reading comprehension prevents you from realizing, they started as Captain and Associate Captains, yet failed to set the example for the younger players. How many top round draft picks failed under their tutelage? Their successor as Captained failed to lead the NHL team. he directly learned the role under them.

Their management hire gave them roles in player development, pro (that thrived LOL) and amateur scouting, draft and Free Agent prep. In their years in those roles, what have been their successes?

[BoS]

From my understanding, they were brought on in an advisory role to the GM in ‘21. This was essentially an introductory position to gain exposure to the day to day dealings in managing a team, while honing in on each of their desired roles long term.

A year later, they shifted to roles in player development, specifically with the AHL players in Abbotsford.

Over the past year they were also helping the big club with the secondary PP unit.

Recently they been given a more elevated role in coaching with the departure of Yeo and the promotion of Yogi.

In a nutshell, the twins have been provided an opportunity to shadow management, support the development and coaching staff with on the job training to help guide and mentor draftees and prospects.

They are now a part of Tocchet’s ever evolving staff who have developed a reputation for strong communication, accountability, work ethic and support.

[JelloPuddingPop]

If you want to take issue with how effective they have been working with the farm team, then give us some rationale and examples for the criticism..

But using fitness levels of players on the parent team to bash their work with minor league players is to be very polite, pretty dumb...

Trying to make light of the high praise they have received for their work with the kids as PR fluff is to be very polite, pretty ignorant...

Take care...

Easy, those players are still in the AHL. Why aren't they making the big club? Why is management having to bring in a bunch of 27-30 year olds from other organizations instead of promoting the youth that the Twins have been tutoring?

Results matter.

I would say the NHL club had quite a few AHL call ups play games for them in the recent years - more than average I would think. The reason they don't stick is because they were either AHL FA signings, college players with no future, or lower draft picks. Van's prospect pipeline is bare, and not NHL calibre.

It isn't because of the Sedins.

I'm sure you've worked in a business that had bright "middle management" that weren't shown the proper respect by those above, so those below didn't either. Wondering if this might be the case?

[5thhorseman]

How many top round draft picks failed under their tutelage?

You have a point. The failures of Virtanen and McCann loom especially large. Why wasn't the dressing room culture enough to get these boys' noses to the grindstone?

[Topper]

Jello - So you believe it is the prospects, not those involved in selecting and developing them.

I believe there is room for both and not 100% either way.

Horsey - add Gaudette to the list.

Blades - their role from day one was shadow management with roles in

“The Sedins will learn and support all areas of the team's hockey operations including player evaluation, development and communication from the amateur to NHL level,” reads the release. “They will work collaboratively with Abbotsford's AHL staff and coaches, participate in amateur and pro scouting meetings and participate in planning for the Draft, Free Agency and trade deadline.”

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canu ... er-3898002

It was supposed to more than learning what Smyl does.

[BoS]

Their management hire gave them roles in player development, pro (that thrived LOL) and amateur scouting, draft and Free Agent prep. In their years in those roles, what have been their successes?

It’s easy to criticize or credit the GM for the draft picks they make, or the players they acquire. Realistically though, only a fraction of the responsibility lies with them even though they make the ultimate decision. Scouts, player development, training staff etc. all have an impact on player success to varying degrees. While it takes a strong team to scout, draft and develop players, the GM gets the lions share of the attention from fans/media, right or wrong.

Having said all that, how does one quantify the success the development staff (led by Samuelsson/Higgins/Komisarek) have had on draftees since ‘21, let alone a couple of gophers in entry level/apprenticeship roles?

[Meds]

It's a good post, a question to consider and a solid discussion point.

A great off season topic.

I hope it gets the roll it deserves.

I don't really look at Toppers query as Sedin bashing as Blob indicates but rather a question of whether anticipated roi is in play with respect to what was expected when they were brought in considering what their ultimate talents were.

Preparation.
Dedication.
Focused direct approach.
Fitness.
Leadership.
Puck control.
Skill.

Are they actually able to transition the best of them to the "new age" player?

Is there a generational issue here with an entitled, new age player personality?

Does the immediacy of financial return in the evolving cap market create a player that figures he's "got it made" and doesn't require or desire finite directives?

Or...

Are they more lead by example individuals as opposed to chalk board X and O guys?

This is a topic for consideration and discussion and, like the DeBrusk conversation I want to have with UW deserves more of my time to offer a considered response.

Busy life...I hope I find it.

Good post Topper.

Yup, good post except for the part where he can't be bothered to learn what their role has been since they retired...

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/vancouver ... rd-canucks

Take care...

PR fluff piece that highlights my points and their failures at developing the younger players.

As I noted, this goes back to their playing days. Who did Bo learn what it takes to be a Captain in the NHL?

If you want to take issue with how effective they have been working with the farm team, then give us some rationale and examples for the criticism..

But using fitness levels of players on the parent team to bash their work with minor league players is to be very polite, pretty dumb...

Trying to make light of the high praise they have received for their work with the kids as PR fluff is to be very polite, pretty ignorant...

Take care...

Easy, those players are still in the AHL. Why aren't they making the big club? Why is management having to bring in a bunch of 27-30 year olds from other organizations instead of promoting the youth that the Twins have been tutoring?

Results matter.

Might be best to stop digging the hole and just give it a rest...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/canucks ... tant-coach

They were special advisors. Ooooooo! Maybe they can eat some kalops* out to the Cup when the Canucks win it.

Then in 2022 they have a role in player development…..and now that role has been “expanded”. Yet as Topper initially says, not defined.

* a Swedish stew

[JelloPuddingPop]

Jello - So you believe it is the prospects, not those involved in selecting and developing them.

I believe there is room for both and not 100% either way.

I just look at other organizations with strong leadership, one example being Boston comes to mind, and Phat Phil still didn't show up in shape - even with the Chara's, Bergerons etc. of the world being top in those categories. (And Chara is a marathoner as well).

As Doc said, you can guide a horse to water, but don't blame the cowboy if it doesn't drink.

[rikster]

Jello - So you believe it is the prospects, not those involved in selecting and developing them.

I believe there is room for both and not 100% either way.

Horsey - add Gaudette to the list.

Blades - their role from day one was shadow management with roles in

“The Sedins will learn and support all areas of the team's hockey operations including player evaluation, development and communication from the amateur to NHL level,” reads the release. “They will work collaboratively with Abbotsford's AHL staff and coaches, participate in amateur and pro scouting meetings and participate in planning for the Draft, Free Agency and trade deadline.”

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canu ... er-3898002

It was supposed to more than learning what Smyl does.

You're all over the map...Would apprectiate it if you could make a point and defend it...

Or is your point that the Sedins have been a failure and should be let go?

Or maybe you just don't have a point ???

[Meds]

How many top round draft picks failed under their tutelage?

You have a point. The failures of Virtanen and McCann loom especially large. Why wasn't the dressing room culture enough to get these boys' noses to the grindstone?

I would suggest that the dressing room culture fell apart after 2011.

I would not at all be surprised to hear some players in the room lost respect for the Sedin way of playing when Daniel just stood there letting Marchand speedbag him only to also get sent to his room when he tattled to mom.

Contrast the pressers during that series. The Bruins, from coach to 4th like scrub, were aggressive, cocky, inflammatory, dismissive, and antagonistic, when given the opportunity to throw a comment in about or towards their opponent. The Canucks were PC polite, deferential, respectful…..but really many of them just came off as pussies.

It is also not at all uncommon for very good teams to fall one game short of the Cup and then implode. Kesler's post career interview/podcast, whatever it was, talked about how hard it was to come back in for the next season and then to fail in the post-season again after another 1st overall regular season finish…..he just couldn’t be there anymore. I would imagine that is not an uncommon feeling in that situation. Possibly magnified considering the Kings bounced the Canucks in 5 games by employing the exact same brand of defensive hockey that Boston used a mere 11 months earlier.

The Sedins, and Naslund (who I was/am a big fan of) are the quintessential examples of why I am 100% against having European on-ice leadership for my team in the NHL.

[JelloPuddingPop]

The Sedins, and Naslund (who I was/am a big fan of) are the quintessential examples of why I am 100% against having European on-ice leadership for my team in the NHL.

LOL, wasn't Chara a European when they won the cup against the Sedins?

[Meds]

Jello - So you believe it is the prospects, not those involved in selecting and developing them.

I believe there is room for both and not 100% either way.

I just look at other organizations with strong leadership, one example being Boston comes to mind, and Phat Phil still didn't show up in shape - even with the Chara's, Bergerons etc. of the world being top in those categories. (And Chara is a marathoner as well).

As Doc said, you can guide a horse to water, but don't blame the cowboy if it doesn't drink.

Was that why Boston ultimately dealt him to Toronto?

I know that Phat Phil got that name for various reasons, but teammates of his have said in the past that he is an absolute animal in the gym. Kessel just naturally had one of those physiques where he always looks roly-poly.