The Petey Predicament

[theman]

Horvat - 12 goals - 11 assists - 23 points - 19 games
Pettersson - 6 goals - 13 assists - 19 points - 21 games
JT Miller - 4 goals - 5 assists - 9 points - 20 games

Very telling. Looks like the Canucks choosing Petey over JT was the right call but they should have chosen Horvat over him too.

Easy to say that 3 years later. Nobody was complaining at the time, and the following season the deal was a landslide win for Vancouver.

Of course, hindsight is 20/20. Just willing to give management some 'credit' here where they have for sure fucked up in other areas.

[donlever]

What Miller is doing in New York has limited bearing on what he may or may not have achieved here.

If things ran differently Miller could have 25 points playing with Necas right now.

Just like posting....because someone posts like an asshole for several months doesn't mean they're a shitty poster.

Or an asshole.

[Meds]

Just like posting....because someone posts like an asshole for several months doesn't mean they're a shitty poster.

Or an asshole.

I object!

I am an asshole.

[UWSaint]

Easy to say that 3 years later. Nobody was complaining at the time, and the following season the deal was a landslide win for Vancouver.

These discussions were happening in the summer of 2022, IIRC, and extended through that season even after Miller signed his extension. My recollection is moving Miller and keeping Bo and EP40 was probably the majority or plurality view. Next was keeping Miller and EP40, and few suggested EP40 was the player to move. Most of the Bo+EP40 argument was age-related, but JT was only a couple of years older and once JT's deal was signed and it was 7 years and not the expected 8 (which Bo was sure to demand). So it was only one more "bad" year on the back end of the contract in terms of actual age (though it still meant Bo should have two more "good years" on the front end contract if they aged identically).

I don't point this out as an I told you so -- I don't remember if I was posting much at the time, but I definitely remember thinking Miller and EP40 were the guys to keep. Petey with more upside (which he delivered on in 2022-23) and Miller as much more of a game changer than Bo. When Horvat's bumper crop season of goals from the bumper pushed his value up a bit, moving Bo made all the more sense.

I wouldn't pronounce Miller dead or Horvat as being a PPG guy. (He never has done that, and his season to season stats are quite consistent around the 60 point/82 game range with a high of 70 points in 79 games the season he was traded). Its early goings, gents.

[donlever]

Just like posting....because someone posts like an asshole for several months doesn't mean they're a shitty poster.

Or an asshole.

I object!

I am an asshole.

You generally don't post like one however.

Other than this one I suppose.

[donlever]

I wouldn't pronounce Miller dead or Horvat as being a PPG guy. (He never has done that, and his season to season stats are quite consistent around the 60 point/82 game range with a high of 70 points in 79 games the season he was traded). Its early goings, gents.

Agreed.

I would have kept Miller & Horvat and moved Petey for "Necas & Kotkaniemei" (" "s indicate rumoured deal) but i have (admittedly) never been a big Petey fan.

[Carl Yagro]

I like how UW succinctly pointed out a lot of what was actually talked about here and around the town itself back during those times when it appeared they could only keep 2 of the 3 centers.

There's obviously a lot more facts and nuances about how we arrived to the present day, so while Chef does his regularly scheduled "adjustments" thing, the whole history revision it has become is utter nonsense.

Imagine taking a small window in time to now elevate his favourite punching bag, Lafreniere as the better overall player because of a minor difference in point totals.

I could add much more to this, but I'm tired of this shite to be honest.

[donlever]

..and your return had been going so well..

[Ronning's Ghost]

Easy to say that 3 years later. Nobody was complaining at the time, and the following season the deal was a landslide win for Vancouver.

These discussions were happening in the summer of 2022, IIRC, and extended through that season even after Miller signed his extension. My recollection is moving Miller and keeping Bo and EP40 was probably the majority or plurality view. Next was keeping Miller and EP40, and few suggested EP40 was the player to move. Most of the Bo+EP40 argument was age-related, but JT was only a couple of years older and once JT's deal was signed and it was 7 years and not the expected 8 (which Bo was sure to demand). So it was only one more "bad" year on the back end of the contract in terms of actual age (though it still meant Bo should have two more "good years" on the front end contract if they aged identically).

It seems that not enough of the archives were recovered for me to be certain of what I actually posted, as opposed to what I might have been thinking.

But I have never been a fan of Miller as a Canuck, mostly on the basis of the fact that I think he is too old to be part of what was intended as the core.

I wouldn't pronounce Miller dead or Horvat as being a PPG guy. (He never has done that, and his season to season stats are quite consistent around the 60 point/82 game range with a high of 70 points in 79 games the season he was traded). Its early goings, gents.

From somewhere in the shadows, the voice of Topper reverberates: "sample size".

But I will put my non-existent credibility on the line and predict that Horvat's season remains solid (if not the same point production, then at least a positive +/-), while Miller's continues to show decline from his Canucks peak, or even from just his previous season.

[Cornuck]

From somewhere in the shadows, the voice of Topper reverberates: "sample size".

[Todd Bersnoozi]

Horvat - 12 goals - 11 assists - 23 points - 19 games
Pettersson - 6 goals - 13 assists - 19 points - 21 games
JT Miller - 4 goals - 5 assists - 9 points - 20 games

Just had to say, even D.O'Connor has more goals than Millzy and same amount of pts (6G, 10PTS). O'Connor has been hot lately and not sure this production is sustainable, but if he can push 20Gs as a middle 6 forward, he will be found money. Our new Kiefer Sherwood for this season. I luved the goal he scored in Florida, outmuscling B.Marchand in front of the net like that.

Man, if Millzy is on the decline, he may have done us a HUGE solid by wanting out. We have seen this show before, an aging vet who hits 30 and his O game just falls off a cliff, ahemm... Louie.... Eriksson. Eriksson was 31 when we got him. Millzy will be pushing 33 soon and he was even showing signs of a drop in play here just before he got traded.

The Millzy trade is looking like it has the potential to become a very lopsided win for us, almost hwy robbery.

It basically:
Millzy
for
Mancini, M-Petey & DO'C18

[Meds]

The Rags are due to decline, not just JT.

Lunqvist, debuted with them in 2005 and they proceeded to make the playoffs 12 of the next 15 years, 5 years in a row, missed one, then 7 years running. During that run they made the SCF once, the conference finals 3 times, and only failed to get out of the 1st round 4 times. That's a pretty good run. They had an heir apparent for King Henrik in Shesterkin, and landing Fox and Zibanejad were good trades acquiring players that became difference makers. They somehow got a 1OA pick in 2020 and took Lafreniere with it. He busted. Shesterkin has not been the world-beater they extended to a monster contract the past couple of years, and even though Quick has turned back the clock, both of their goalies will be in their 30's at the end of this calendar year. Their big guns up front are also in that age range.

As a team they are in the last year or two of their window. I think that Zibanejad and Miller are examples of that, both would probably do well on teams with a bit more youth, but right now their young guys are, well, of Lafreniere's ilk.

[Hockey Widow]

I wouldn't pronounce Miller dead or Horvat as being a PPG guy. (He never has done that, and his season to season stats are quite consistent around the 60 point/82 game range with a high of 70 points in 79 games the season he was traded). Its early goings, gents.

Agreed.

I would have kept Miller & Horvat and moved Petey for "Necas & Kotkaniemei" (" "s indicate rumoured deal) but i have (admittedly) never been a big Petey fan.

I don't believe the Carolina deal was on the table when they had all three. It was only after the Canucks were trying to figure out what to do with Pettersson and before he signed his mega deal. I think the Canucks used the rumoured trade as leverage to get Pettersson to sign his deal. It was like commit now or be traded. So in a perfect world, before they traded Horvat, and using hindsight, I think I agree with you. But at the time of the Horvat trade Pettersson was on his way to 100 points.

Right now I see him heading for the Selke highway. He isn't there yet and would need to improve his F/O % but the way he is playing defensively and with his ability to put up points I can see him getting on that highway and garnering some votes.

[Chef Boi RD]

I wouldn't pronounce Miller dead or Horvat as being a PPG guy. (He never has done that, and his season to season stats are quite consistent around the 60 point/82 game range with a high of 70 points in 79 games the season he was traded). Its early goings, gents.

Agreed.

I would have kept Miller & Horvat and moved Petey for "Necas & Kotkaniemei" (" "s indicate rumoured deal) but i have (admittedly) never been a big Petey fan.

I don't believe the Carolina deal was on the table when they had all three. It was only after the Canucks were trying to figure out what to do with Pettersson and before he signed his mega deal. I think the Canucks used the rumoured trade as leverage to get Pettersson to sign his deal. It was like commit now or be traded. So in a perfect world, before they traded Horvat, and using hindsight, I think I agree with you. But at the time of the Horvat trade Pettersson was on his way to 100 points.

Right now I see him heading for the Selke highway. He isn't there yet and would need to improve his F/O % but the way he is playing defensively and with his ability to put up points I can see him getting on that highway and garnering some votes.

“I don’t believe”
“I don’t think”
“I think”

Chef “believes” the Necas deal was on the table.

[Meds]

Chef “believes” the Necas deal was on the table.

Thanks for Cher’ing.