Rebooted Around the League - 23/24

[rikster]

They can attach picks/prospects to Darnell and retain salary.

But power forwards always take longer to develop right?

Alright Blobbie, I will not engage you on this again, but your acting like an amway person, and you just keep picking.. So, here is your door slam.

First, Nurse has a NTC. Therefore, You are 100% wrong. He is not going anywhere with 'picks and prospects' unless he wants to. The End.


Second, and onto your continuous scratching of your herpes itch regarding powerforwards development curves, and the purposely obtuse outtakes from it, I guess you get your way and we are gonna debate it... and by 'debate' I mean I simply show people who has actually been huffing on the Ghomer pen.

To recap, I said typical powerforwards take longer to develop and often get traded before they reach potential. You said there is no evidence and started your typical 'run down the other poster' schtick to assert the dominance of your superiority, just like you had to those couple times you spent the weekends in jail, and I was simply too tired to engage and so I said you were right to shut you the hell up. Then, like a small child, you jumped up and down and then started acting like what you said was true, moved the goalposts by adding powerforwards who were NEVER traded and promptly started playing with yourself while telling your image in the mirror how smart you were, and Didn't shut up even after several rather obvious examples of late blooming powerforwards who were traded were shown be several posters.

there is no evidence power forwards take any more time than any other skater to develop.

and where is the evidence power forwards take longer than other skaters to develop?

So, I now have some time to properly address this. I have compiled a list of about 50 powerforwards who fit the criteria of my original comments.
They were defined as powerforwards and are 'typical' opposed to 'exceptional' (I mean were not picked in the top 5 of the first round -they are just average NHL'r who were not exceptional players like Lindros or Ovi). This is a random list and are in no order of significance, and from anytime after the term 'powerforward' became regular vernacular (That means since we started using the word 'powerforward' in 1983, blobster) --please note ALL of your examples in the posts are not the same conversation they were never traded before age 23, hense; your out of your lane and simply wrong in your response posts as well. But, for this example of "developing late", I'll make a random list of 50 or so, regardless of trade status, then do some research.

Cam Neely (the original, according to Sinden), Todd Bertuzzi, Brendan Shanahan, JT Miller, Rick Tocchet, Keith Tkachuk, Owen Nolan, Evander Kane, Chris Stewart, Ryan Johansen, David Backes, Wayne Simmonds, Dakota Joshua, James Neal, Scott Hartnell, Tom Wilson, James Van Riemsdyk, Brandon Saad, Troy Brower, Joff Lupul, Brayden Schenn, Kyle Plamieri, Sam Bennett, Charlie Coyle, Anthony Duclair, Josh Anderson, Adam Henrique, Boone Jenner, Marcus Foligno, Anders Lee, Dakota Joshua, Alex Tuch, Zack Kassian, Ryan Hartman, Ryan Malone, Bobby Ryan, David Perron, Miles Wood, Stefan Noesen, Jordan Martinook, William Carrier, Jarome Iginla, Milan Lucic, Chris Kreider, Ryan Getzlaf, Wendel Clarke, Clarke Gilles, Gary Roberts, Dustin Brown, John Leclair, Johan Franzen, and Kevin Stevens

I am sure there are errors here, but its a good enough sample size for what we are doing here to get started. All the above players played more than 100 games and 400 hits (after they started tracking them) in the NHL. Sure, some of them are debatable powerforwards, but I was just trying to get a sample size here.

On this list, only 2 players I could find (Saad and Stewart) had a higher PPG BEFORE age 23 than after.

Now, I am sure someone could go make a list of Powerforwards who were not typical (the exceptions like Lindros), or skew the numbers somewhere, but here ya go Blob, Power forwards tend to develop later than skilled guys.

Fuck you.

Great rant, kudos to you...

I've heard that power forwards as a rule take longer to develope, it seems to be commonly accepted, but have never had it explained why that is?

Would be curious to know...

Take care...

[Madcombinepilot]

I have one question. Why is Dakota Joshua listed twice?

All heroes have flaws, Wids.

I made a mistake.

[Blob Mckenzie]

Power forwards don't take longer to develop than any other player. Lot of players, big, tough, small, shifty, skilled.... burners etc, develop later. A few neckbeards in the media said they did so naturally a few thousand window lickers lapped it up like their Uncle Festus's sperm shake on a hot day. I didn't realize Gohmert had so much kin on the board.

The Oilers contract situation is going to be fun to watch but teams generally find a way to weasel out of these situations unless they are the Canucks. I don't get too full of glee hoping for something that never comes to fruition.

[Blob Mckenzie]

I'm going to rip that list to shreds later on. And you either can't read or are just being abstinent. Or just say you're bored and like moving goalposts.

Nolan scored over 40 goals at 19 for fuck sakes. Neely had 36 before his 22nd birthday. You added this stipulation about guys that were traded or some such shit. Mëds kept up well enough to realize I was just reciting the point that power forwards take longer to develop.

[Madcombinepilot]

I'm going to rip that list to shreds later on. And you either can't read or are just being abstinent. Or just say you're bored and like moving goalposts.

Nolan scored over 40 goals at 19 for fuck sakes. Neely had 36 before his 22nd birthday. You added this stipulation about guys that were traded or some such shit. Mëds kept up well enough to realize I was just reciting the point that power forwards take longer to develop.

Didn’t add nothing. You didn’t read the original message. You added a pile of shit to my original comments and now are claiming you were not wrong - and that you didn’t add shit- after I showed how most power forwards got better (using PPG) after age 23. Heck, I even admitted I could be wrong on a couple of the guys.

If you recall, back then I said you were right, and you should take the win.

Instead of being humble and taking the win, you pranced like a donkey and chirped like a prison rat, so I fed you facts and now you look like you should have stayed in your lane opposed to stirring up shit because you were bored.

Now, you’ll move the goalposts like chef, start twisting words like Doc, and the personal attacks will be regular and vicious… but we will all know.

…of course, I could be wrong and you decide you want to talk hockey again.

Anyways, cheers.

[Blob Mckenzie]

Dude let's stick to our original debate. All I said is it's a myth that power forwards take longer to develop. You then added a cutoff for age, put in some restrictions against guys like Ovi and Lindros, and then threw in some stipulation about guys getting traded before said magical age. MOST players don't develop before 23.


Lots of players of all different ilks develop at their own pace.

Probably time for different thread, for this.

[Cousin Strawberry]

The combiner just landed a quadruple combination of triple coilers on Blobbies pirate chest

It looks like either the Audi or the Olympic logo... depending on the smear factor

[Tciso]

The combiner just landed a quadruple combination of triple coilers on Blobbies pirate chest

It looks like either the Audi or the Olympic logo... depending on the smear factor

Or, like communism, where everyone gets a share.

[Madcombinepilot]

They can attach picks/prospects to Darnell and retain salary.

But power forwards always take longer to develop right?

Alright Blobbie, I will not engage you on this again, but your acting like an amway person, and you just keep picking.. So, here is your door slam.

First, Nurse has a NTC. Therefore, You are 100% wrong. He is not going anywhere with 'picks and prospects' unless he wants to. The End.


Second, and onto your continuous scratching of your herpes itch regarding powerforwards development curves, and the purposely obtuse outtakes from it, I guess you get your way and we are gonna debate it... and by 'debate' I mean I simply show people who has actually been huffing on the Ghomer pen.

To recap, I said typical powerforwards take longer to develop and often get traded before they reach potential. You said there is no evidence and started your typical 'run down the other poster' schtick to assert the dominance of your superiority, just like you had to those couple times you spent the weekends in jail, and I was simply too tired to engage and so I said you were right to shut you the hell up. Then, like a small child, you jumped up and down and then started acting like what you said was true, moved the goalposts by adding powerforwards who were NEVER traded and promptly started playing with yourself while telling your image in the mirror how smart you were, and Didn't shut up even after several rather obvious examples of late blooming powerforwards who were traded were shown be several posters.

there is no evidence power forwards take any more time than any other skater to develop.

and where is the evidence power forwards take longer than other skaters to develop?

So, I now have some time to properly address this. I have compiled a list of about 50 powerforwards who fit the criteria of my original comments.
They were defined as powerforwards and are 'typical' opposed to 'exceptional' (I mean were not picked in the top 5 of the first round -they are just average NHL'r who were not exceptional players like Lindros or Ovi). This is a random list and are in no order of significance, and from anytime after the term 'powerforward' became regular vernacular (That means since we started using the word 'powerforward' in 1983, blobster) --please note ALL of your examples in the posts are not the same conversation they were never traded before age 23, hense; your out of your lane and simply wrong in your response posts as well. But, for this example of "developing late", I'll make a random list of 50 or so, regardless of trade status, then do some research.

Cam Neely (the original, according to Sinden), Todd Bertuzzi, Brendan Shanahan, JT Miller, Rick Tocchet, Keith Tkachuk, Owen Nolan, Evander Kane, Chris Stewart, Ryan Johansen, David Backes, Wayne Simmonds, Dakota Joshua, James Neal, Scott Hartnell, Tom Wilson, James Van Riemsdyk, Brandon Saad, Troy Brower, Joff Lupul, Brayden Schenn, Kyle Plamieri, Sam Bennett, Charlie Coyle, Anthony Duclair, Josh Anderson, Adam Henrique, Boone Jenner, Marcus Foligno, Anders Lee, Dakota Joshua, Alex Tuch, Zack Kassian, Ryan Hartman, Ryan Malone, Bobby Ryan, David Perron, Miles Wood, Stefan Noesen, Jordan Martinook, William Carrier, Jarome Iginla, Milan Lucic, Chris Kreider, Ryan Getzlaf, Wendel Clarke, Clarke Gilles, Gary Roberts, Dustin Brown, John Leclair, Johan Franzen, and Kevin Stevens

I am sure there are errors here, but its a good enough sample size for what we are doing here to get started. All the above players played more than 100 games and 400 hits (after they started tracking them) in the NHL. Sure, some of them are debatable powerforwards, but I was just trying to get a sample size here.

On this list, only 2 players I could find (Saad and Stewart) had a higher PPG BEFORE age 23 than after.

Now, I am sure someone could go make a list of Powerforwards who were not typical (the exceptions like Lindros), or skew the numbers somewhere, but here ya go Blob, Power forwards tend to develop later than skilled guys.

Fuck you.

Great rant, kudos to you...

I've heard that power forwards as a rule take longer to develope, it seems to be commonly accepted, but have never had it explained why that is?

Would be curious to know...

Take care...

Honestly, I would think it simply takes men longer to come into their mature strength. When I played agressive sports as a late teen and early 20’s, my athletics were all about speed and dexterity. I didn’t learn how to use strength and body until mid to late 20’s.

[VHF]

Wow...I haven't posted on here for maybe a dozen or more years and ....this is what I've been missing? Lots of the same old members, a lot of new ones, and a culture that has changed quite a bit. Is there a new block/mute/ignore function available so I don't have to see name calling and insults, and see mostly meaningful hockey discussion, or should I just try again in another 10 years? Peace out and enjoy the upcoming season all.

[Madcombinepilot]

Dude let's stick to our original debate. All I said is it's a myth that power forwards take longer to develop. You then added a cutoff for age, put in some restrictions against guys like Ovi and Lindros, and then threw in some stipulation about guys getting traded before said magical age. MOST players don't develop before 23.


Lots of players of all different ilks develop at their own pace.

Probably time for different thread, for this.

Sure. The original post was that most power forwards take longer to develop. I said most don’t break out until after age 23, and often get traded before that as teams give up on them. Your definition of ‘restriction’ is what I call ‘exceptional players’ (who don’t fit the category of ‘most’). Podkolzin’s age is where the 23 came from, seeing as we were talking about him originally.

[Cousin Strawberry]

Wow...I haven't posted on here for maybe a dozen or more years and ....this is what I've been missing? Lots of the same old members, a lot of new ones, and a culture that has changed quite a bit. Is there a new block/mute/ignore function available so I don't have to see name calling and insults, and see mostly meaningful hockey discussion, or should I just try again in another 10 years? Peace out and enjoy the upcoming season all.

Just hang out and drop a few coilers onto chests!

It's liberating!

Na serious though....hang out man. We need to get talking hockey again and we need your views and perspectives

My 2 bits:

Comby is right. It's generally acknowledged by the hockey community that power forwards take longer to develop

John LeClair, Todd Bertuzzi are when I first remember hearing this

[Strangelove]

Wow...I haven't posted on here for maybe a dozen or more years and ....this is what I've been missing? Lots of the same old members, a lot of new ones, and a culture that has changed quite a bit. Is there a new block/mute/ignore function available so I don't have to see name calling and insults, and see mostly meaningful hockey discussion, or should I just try again in another 10 years? Peace out and enjoy the upcoming season all.

It's always like this in the late summer.

Hasn't been much hockey news in a long while and folks are starving for the puck to drop.

Mods are letting things slide because any conversation is better than no conversation?

CC mental health returns when the season begins, stick around and find out brother!

[Meds]

They can attach picks/prospects to Darnell and retain salary.

But power forwards always take longer to develop right?

Alright Blobbie, I will not engage you on this again, but your acting like an amway person, and you just keep picking.. So, here is your door slam.

First, Nurse has a NTC. Therefore, You are 100% wrong. He is not going anywhere with 'picks and prospects' unless he wants to. The End.


Second, and onto your continuous scratching of your herpes itch regarding powerforwards development curves, and the purposely obtuse outtakes from it, I guess you get your way and we are gonna debate it... and by 'debate' I mean I simply show people who has actually been huffing on the Ghomer pen.

To recap, I said typical powerforwards take longer to develop and often get traded before they reach potential. You said there is no evidence and started your typical 'run down the other poster' schtick to assert the dominance of your superiority, just like you had to those couple times you spent the weekends in jail, and I was simply too tired to engage and so I said you were right to shut you the hell up. Then, like a small child, you jumped up and down and then started acting like what you said was true, moved the goalposts by adding powerforwards who were NEVER traded and promptly started playing with yourself while telling your image in the mirror how smart you were, and Didn't shut up even after several rather obvious examples of late blooming powerforwards who were traded were shown be several posters.

there is no evidence power forwards take any more time than any other skater to develop.

and where is the evidence power forwards take longer than other skaters to develop?

So, I now have some time to properly address this. I have compiled a list of about 50 powerforwards who fit the criteria of my original comments.
They were defined as powerforwards and are 'typical' opposed to 'exceptional' (I mean were not picked in the top 5 of the first round -they are just average NHL'r who were not exceptional players like Lindros or Ovi). This is a random list and are in no order of significance, and from anytime after the term 'powerforward' became regular vernacular (That means since we started using the word 'powerforward' in 1983, blobster) --please note ALL of your examples in the posts are not the same conversation they were never traded before age 23, hense; your out of your lane and simply wrong in your response posts as well. But, for this example of "developing late", I'll make a random list of 50 or so, regardless of trade status, then do some research.

Cam Neely (the original, according to Sinden), Todd Bertuzzi, Brendan Shanahan, JT Miller, Rick Tocchet, Keith Tkachuk, Owen Nolan, Evander Kane, Chris Stewart, Ryan Johansen, David Backes, Wayne Simmonds, Dakota Joshua, James Neal, Scott Hartnell, Tom Wilson, James Van Riemsdyk, Brandon Saad, Troy Brower, Joff Lupul, Brayden Schenn, Kyle Plamieri, Sam Bennett, Charlie Coyle, Anthony Duclair, Josh Anderson, Adam Henrique, Boone Jenner, Marcus Foligno, Anders Lee, Dakota Joshua, Alex Tuch, Zack Kassian, Ryan Hartman, Ryan Malone, Bobby Ryan, David Perron, Miles Wood, Stefan Noesen, Jordan Martinook, William Carrier, Jarome Iginla, Milan Lucic, Chris Kreider, Ryan Getzlaf, Wendel Clarke, Clarke Gilles, Gary Roberts, Dustin Brown, John Leclair, Johan Franzen, and Kevin Stevens

I am sure there are errors here, but its a good enough sample size for what we are doing here to get started. All the above players played more than 100 games and 400 hits (after they started tracking them) in the NHL. Sure, some of them are debatable powerforwards, but I was just trying to get a sample size here.

On this list, only 2 players I could find (Saad and Stewart) had a higher PPG BEFORE age 23 than after.

Now, I am sure someone could go make a list of Powerforwards who were not typical (the exceptions like Lindros), or skew the numbers somewhere, but here ya go Blob, Power forwards tend to develop later than skilled guys.

Fuck you.

Wow MCP, that was probably the worst post I've ever read from you. Not only did you fail to prove your point, but you loaded the preamble up with personal attacks while claiming to be above that.

Cam Neely - 72 points in 75 GP at 22 years old.
Brendan Shanahan - 72 points in 73 GP at 20 years old.
Keith Tkachuk - 81 points in 82 GP at 21 years old.
Owen Nolan - 73 points in 75 GP at 19 going 20.
Ryan Getzlaf - 82 points in 77 GP at 23.
Milan Lucic - was the best player he would be by 23 years old.
Jarome Iginla - by the time he was 22 he was a 30 goal/60+ point winger and trending up.

Some of those guys didn't ever pan out, the rest of them developed along the same curve as every other type of player not projected to be a top line superstar, hitting their true stride around 24 and then dropping back off again around 30. And by "every other type of player" I mean ones who fit your criteria: They were defined as powerforwards and are 'typical' opposed to 'exceptional' (I mean were not picked in the top 5 of the first round -they are just average NHL'r who were not exceptional players like Lindros or Ovi).

Interestingly enough a few of those names actually developed at an accelerated curve when compared to hot shot danglers and playmakers like say, Datsyuk and Zetterberg, both of them drafted outside the top 5 (rounds actually lol) and neither of them power forwards, and neither of them making their big impact until after they were 25. Hell, the #2 and #3 picks of the 1999 draft didn't become top line players until they were 26 (in fact they were only scratching at 50 point seasons at 25).

No skewing required.

[Topper]

You missed Podkolzin