2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

[Chef Boi RD]

Meh sure it would be great if Byram shot right but it ain’t a dealbreaker for me. He could anchor one pair while Quintin could anchor the other. As much as I like Hughes, I don’t see him as an all situations type guy like Byram.

The only way we are getting Byram if we win one of the 3 lotteries, if we win one of the first two lotteries we are drafting Hughes or Kakko, ifvwe win the third lottery I see more value to our needs in Podkozlin than I do Byram

However, it’s a dream that won’t come true

[Chef Boi RD]

Let’s recap the Oilers 11 year rebuild

2009 - 10th overall pick - Paajarvi
2010 - 1st overall - Hall
2011 - 1st overall - RNH
2012 - 1st overall - Yakupov
2013 - 7th overall - Nurse
2014 - 3rd overall - Draisaitl
2015 - 1st overall - McDavid
2016 - 4th overall - Puljujarvi
2017 - 22nd overall - Yamamoto
2018 - 10th overall - Bouchard
2019 - 6th overall -

Iskand Nucklehead, your thoughts on the Oilers 11 year rebuild?

[Diehard1]

And so on, and so on. There are many, many examples of players being traded with NTCs, NMCs, or modified NTCs so why do we Canuck fans seem to think Jimbo is trying to do the impossible? Sure it becomes more difficult, but we can’t act like this team is the only one that has these issues.

Hey DieHard...

I can't get excited arguing over 2nd and 3rd tier players, nor did the likes of Chicago and Pittsburgh when they were winning all of those Stanley Cups...

When you secure a group of elite players, and those 2 teams had not only quality, but they had quantity when it came to elite players, you can roll secondary players in and out of the organization and not miss a beat...

And when secondary players get to play with elite players, it can give a mirage that they are better than they really are so often teams get more for them in deals than in hindsight they should have...

I had a fun year and for the first time in a long time, I went to more games and gave away just a few of my season ticket holder seats so I'm already jacked about next year...

And its because of the core 4 which looks like it will climb to 5 if Demko continues to develop and Markstrom has another year like this one...

As for the secondary players, I don't expect too many of them to be around when the team is a serious contender again...

Take care...

Hey Rikster, I’m also excited about the team and young players, it’s the best we’ve looked from that perspective in a long time. Petey is worth the price of admission himself, Bo is about as hard working and likeable player as there is, Hughes looks like he will produce lots of magic, and Brock improved this year as well. They look very good and I’m hopeful guys like Demko and Juolevi will join them soon. Perhaps a guy like Madden or Woo might as well in the future, and maybe Virtanen becomes a solid 2nd liner. Not all of that will happen but some will, and I’m sure some guys off the board will appear as well.

That said, we need more, and the trades and FA signings need to improve greatly. The best FA signing Jimbo has made in his 5 years is likely Roussel, and that’s definitely not setting a very high bar considering how much money he’s spent. His best trade is maybe Baertschi? There’s been a whole bunch of nothing and some losses (Guddy). I see why the rumour is Aquilini wants a new President in place as Jimbo needs help here.

As for Chicago, IMHO they are a great example of what you can do with extra picks and good development.

In 02 they had 9 picks in 9 rounds, got Keith in the 2nd, Wisniewski in the 5th and Burish in the 9th
In 03 they had 10 picks in 9 rounds, got Seabrook in the 1st, Crawford in the 2nd, Byfuglien in the 8th
In 04 they had 16(!) picks in 9 rounds, Barker in the 1st, Bolland in the 2nd, Bickell in the 2nd, Brouwer in the 8th
In 05 they had 12(!) picks in 7 rounds, got Skille in the 1st and Hjalmarsson in the 4th
In 06 they had 9 picks in 7 rounds, only real player was Toews 3rd overall
In 07 they went back to 7 picks, and Kane 1st overall is the only player

My point here is that it took a lot of extra picks to get more NHL players, the Hawks had a ton of them and it’s what created their amazing teams that used to terrorize the Nucks. They got 13 bonafide NHL players out of 63 picks in 6 years and I think that’s a decent ratio. The Hawks then further traded these guys when they couldn’t sign them, getting back extra picks and prospects for Byfuglien, Ladd, etc and continuing their run. It’s a very good way to run a team and they were very successful doing it.

The Nucks have had 41 over the past 6 years which isn’t enough. Yes, the Hawks had the first 3 of those drafts with 2 extra rounds, but it’s damn hard to out draft the rest of the league and more picks definitely helps.

[Mickey107]

Hard to imagine that Peyton Krebs is listed so high. He's like minus 50. That's five oh.
But then the entire Kootney team is a minus. Hard to scout...

[Chef Boi RD]

Hard to imagine that Peyton Krebs is listed so high. He's like minus 50. That's five oh.
But then the entire Kootney team is a minus. Hard to scout...

It’s Krebs excellent play internationally with Team Canada that makes the scouts look past his numbers on a shitty team. He’s always one of the best players on the team offensively and defensively when he plays internationally. Very tenacious and competitive and always racks up the points for Team Canada. Apparently he is very determined and self motivated, a gym rat, lives, eats and sleeps the game unlike your Virtanens.

[Topper]

One of the things lost in discussion of Chicago is how fortuitous Tallon's FedEx fuckup worked for them. They jetisons mid level and lower talent on that one. Guys who were lunchbucket fan favourites. The type of guys Vancouver was calling core and turning the dressing room over to. The type of guys Vancouver would never part with because they were essential. These were guy that were plugging the prospect development.

The Blackhawks were forced to part ways with them and replace them with youngsters who flourished.

[Blob Mckenzie]

Byfuglien is certainly not a mid level talent.

And Ladd, Chicago reacquired at the price of a 1st and a prospect

[rikster]

As for Chicago, IMHO they are a great example of what you can do with extra picks and good development.

In 02 they had 9 picks in 9 rounds, got Keith in the 2nd, Wisniewski in the 5th and Burish in the 9th
In 03 they had 10 picks in 9 rounds, got Seabrook in the 1st, Crawford in the 2nd, Byfuglien in the 8th
In 04 they had 16(!) picks in 9 rounds, Barker in the 1st, Bolland in the 2nd, Bickell in the 2nd, Brouwer in the 8th
In 05 they had 12(!) picks in 7 rounds, got Skille in the 1st and Hjalmarsson in the 4th
In 06 they had 9 picks in 7 rounds, only real player was Toews 3rd overall
In 07 they went back to 7 picks, and Kane 1st overall is the only player

Hi DieHard, this speaks to my thoughts that getting worked up over secondary players is misguided....

https://www.hockey-reference.com/awards/stanley.html

That 2009/2010 Hawks team was stacked and of the bolded players the only one who was not on it was Skille while only Bolland and Hjalmarrson were on the 2014/15 Cup winning team so while the core remained the same on each Cup winner, the rest of the team came and went...

Take care...

[Strangelove]

. It’s his biggest downfall as a GM IMHO, his lack of creativity in understanding how to build a team.

Yet here we are...a stable full of up and coming stars with plenty more developing in the wings.

Thats pretty well the textbook definition of a rebuilding team dude.

Bitches gunna bitch bro...

[Strangelove]

Can you remind me again how exactly did Benning screw this up. My memory is bad. I keep remembering NMC, NTC or something along those lines.

These are frequently brought up as reasons why the re-build was not accelerated, but Garrison had trade protection and was moved out expeditiously. To me that shows that Benning could overcome those barriers when he believed it was worthwhile, and so in the other cases, did not believe it was worthwhile.

Or Garrison was more flexible than others?

Seriously what kind of logic is that Cliffy?

"He convinced that guy to waive for a team that would give a fair return, so he should be able to do that in every situation"

At first Hamhuis wouldn't waive at all.. then he finally agreed to be waived to Dallas.

Dallas offered sweet piss all, and in the end they actually preferred that other guy.

(and wasn't there a rumour Aquas nixed any deal with Dallas for Hamhuis)

Vrbata's wife was due... so he made it impossible for GMJB to trade him.

Fucking Benning-bashers...

[Hockey Widow]

Benning strong armed Garrison. He asked him to waive three times to St. Louis, were he had a deal worked out. Three times Garrison said no. Garrison actually left town to get away from the mess because he was so upset and angry that Benning was pushing him out the door. Benning finally told his agent that Garrison didn't fit into their plans and they finally waived but only for the Florida based teams. Panthers said no thanks. Tampa offered up a second. Deal done.

Point, Benning can hardball when he wants to. And ya, I don't think he felt it was necessary to hardball Hamhuis, Bieksa, Hanson, Burrows or Edler. And I think he was right.

Benning has often said he seriously considered shutting down trade talk regarding Kesler because he and his agent were being pricks. Said he thought long and hard about telling him they expected he be at camp and if he wasn't, he wouldn't play. We saw with Yashin that if he refused to honour his contract the league would carry it over. But in the end Benning said he didn't want the distraction.

If history doesn't support your beliefs than just tweak it a bit to conform to your narrative. Alternate facts are real now.

[Carl Yagro]

. It’s his biggest downfall as a GM IMHO, his lack of creativity in understanding how to build a team.

Yet here we are...a stable full of up and coming stars with plenty more developing in the wings.

Thats pretty well the textbook definition of a rebuilding team dude.

Bitches gunna bitch bro...

And no one mentions that the owners tweeted in 15 parts, finally using the words "Rebuild" and "Patience". The same sentiment that Linden finally uttered and got him canned.

Seems to me when this regime started, they were verboten to use these terms (Shhh, don't mention the war!)

So JB basically had to work under these constraints while building a new prospect pool from scratch. If he had any previous NHL-ready prospects, I'm sure he would've kept some of the picks instead.

I mean, if the owner wanted to continue pushing for more revenue, does it make much sense to hopefully wait for picks that might or might not turn out in 3-4 years? The owner had great loyalty to the 2011 team like the Sedins, Edler, etc. How many Chaputs and Megnas could you dredge up to support the previous core? Really.

Man, are people still not happy at where this team is at right now?

[Ronning's Ghost]

Can you remind me again how exactly did Benning screw this up. My memory is bad. I keep remembering NMC, NTC or something along those lines.

These are frequently brought up as reasons why the re-build was not accelerated, but Garrison had trade protection and was moved out expeditiously. To me that shows that Benning could overcome those barriers when he believed it was worthwhile, and so in the other cases, did not believe it was worthwhile.

Or Garrison was more flexible than others?

Seriously what kind of logic is that Cliffy?

"He convinced that guy to waive for a team that would give a fair return, so he should be able to do that in every situation"

Well, Hockey Widow already said it better, but the logic goes: if he did it once, that shows it wasn't impossible. So the various movement restriction clauses, while certainly an obstacle (and so, in case the Dud is reading this, Gillis left Benning in an absolutely horrible position), were not an insurmountable barrier to moving players Benning didn't think were part of the future, and getting assets back for them. Therefore, when he didn't do so, it was a strategic decision on his part. How well that strategy worked out is revealed by the product on the ice.

[Chef Boi RD]

Can you remind me again how exactly did Benning screw this up. My memory is bad. I keep remembering NMC, NTC or something along those lines.

These are frequently brought up as reasons why the re-build was not accelerated, but Garrison had trade protection and was moved out expeditiously. To me that shows that Benning could overcome those barriers when he believed it was worthwhile, and so in the other cases, did not believe it was worthwhile.

Or Garrison was more flexible than others?

Seriously what kind of logic is that Cliffy?

"He convinced that guy to waive for a team that would give a fair return, so he should be able to do that in every situation"

At first Hamhuis wouldn't waive at all.. then he finally agreed to be waived to Dallas.

Dallas offered sweet piss all, and in the end they actually preferred that other guy.

(and wasn't there a rumour Aquas nixed any deal with Dallas for Hamhuis)

Vrbata's wife was due... so he made it impossible for GMJB to trade him.

Fucking Benning-bashers...

Doc, we may have to dig in and try to save RG from the dark side - Canucks HF Disease. He’s teetering.

[Chef Boi RD]

Can you remind me again how exactly did Benning screw this up. My memory is bad. I keep remembering NMC, NTC or something along those lines.

These are frequently brought up as reasons why the re-build was not accelerated, but Garrison had trade protection and was moved out expeditiously. To me that shows that Benning could overcome those barriers when he believed it was worthwhile, and so in the other cases, did not believe it was worthwhile.

Or Garrison was more flexible than others?

Seriously what kind of logic is that Cliffy?

"He convinced that guy to waive for a team that would give a fair return, so he should be able to do that in every situation"

Well, Hockey Widow already said it better, but the logic goes: if he did it once, that shows it wasn't impossible. So the various movement restriction clauses, while certainly an obstacle (and so, in case the Dud is reading this, Gillis left Benning in an absolutely horrible position), were not an insurmountable barrier to moving players Benning didn't think were part of the future, and getting assets back for them. Therefore, when he didn't do so, it was a strategic decision on his part. How well that strategy worked out is revealed by the product on the ice.

Well I know for a fact that Edler does not want to play for anyone but the Canucks, if you hear otherwise it’s Agent speak. He had zero desire to waive and didn’t

Kesler named two teams for Benning and wouldn’t budge - Chicago and Anaheim. Chicago was eliminated because they couldn’t afford it. I also have insight on the Kesler situation, I know a local commercial real estate developer whom Kesler was a major partner with he told me that It was ugly behind the scenes regarding Kesler, remember the A getting removed from his jersey? Keslers presence in the room was considered a negative and the Canuck brass didn’t want it dragging out Luongo style

Garrison waived because he wasn’t too happy about not being wanted. With Edler, management and coach like and respect him much more than they did Garrison, Benning didn’t like Garrison. The Canucks were getting tons of calls on Edler while at the same time they are ok with keeping him.

Is Benning the first GM in hockey who doesn’t trade pending UFA’s with NTCs at the deadline?