Is Mark Carney sliding towards Fascism?

[Meds]

Not sure how you see the Canadian government as Authoritarian. At least compared to an AI list (your reference source, not mine):
Afghanistan, Belarus, China, Cuba, Egypt, Ethiopia, Iran, Myanmar, North Korea, Russia, Saudi Arabia etc. etc. etc. Canada is not even close to any of these countries. That is hyperbole at it's very finest sir.

I think it's in the title of the thread....."sliding towards".

Trudeau definitely behaved more dictatorial than any PM's that I can recall in my lifetime. His government was certainly more overbearing and curtailing of freedoms. Their approach to gun ownership alone is evidence of a desire to exert more control than previous "regimes". Their handling of vaccine mandates is another such example of authoritarianism.

Obviously the countries that you listed from the AI list, are far and away more authoritarian than Canada. But again, it's a slippery slope, and every free country that has slid into authoritarianism started with small steps.

Allowing rampant crime? This is usually a Municipality/Provincial/Territorial jurisdiction. Not a Federal one, unless you are talking about Federal Laws, or Correction Facilities, which have been in place for decades prior to Carney's government. Maybe I'm missing your point here though?

Now we take the OP text rather than the title under review and recognize that he said Trudeau and Carney. The latter has not really done much to accelerate what Trudeau began, but he is continuing along the path. Crime is undoubtedly a problem, and I don't disagree with your comment here, however I will add to it by pointing to one of the major sources of this "rampant crime", and that is immigration. IIRC, the Carney government has walked some of the Trudeau government's immigration numbers back. So, we will see.

Also, as much as you are right, the Municipal/Provincial/Territorial levels of government do hold hold the jurisdiction here, largely, the walking out of justice follows a top-down flow.

Many "Socialist" countries have military training, which would be as far from Fascism as one could get. Just look at Finland, Sweden(?) etc.

Yeah, that's an odd one to me. Our armed forces have lagged badly behind many of our allies' due to Federal neglect, both Liberal and Tory governments have fucked up there. What is being done now is the right thing.

By exerting total control over the economy, I assume you mean by policies he has enacted? As the government? With power over the economy? Hard to see how those might, or might not play out with a minority government.

Beginning way back, but coming to the fore under Trudeau, and now with Carney, economic control is indeed being exercised at unforeseen levels in this country. However, it is being done via environmental regulation.

Legacy media, meaning the CBC? Without this entity, a lot of rural Canada wouldn't have news/TV/media. Same thing as Canada Post, I for example only have a PO Box. This is a very big city centric view. Nationally subsidized media broadcasters also support a lot of arts, local news, and many other venues for creative outlet.

There is no defending the CBC at this point. They have pushed a leftist agenda, and as a public broadcaster they have a responsibility to present things as balanced, more factual. The question/answer periods with electoral candidates during campaigning have shown an obvious bias towards the Liberals, and the treatment that the Liberal government has given to private news agencies (ie. Rebel News) has put a greater spotlight on the lockstep relationship between the CBC and the Liberal party.

I think I hit on most of your points. But honestly, even if you don't agree with the finer points - you have to see that we are about as far from Fascist, as the Canucks are from winning a Cup. Anything is possible... but really? Probably not.

Totally disagree and have to call complete and utter bullshit on that. Not even Scandinavian nations are as far away from Fascism as the Canucks are from winning a Cup.

[donlever]

I'd be delaying taking pension till 70 to get the maximum amount anyways, so delaying till 72 is no biggie. The whole point of the pension is not how soon you get it, but rather that it's a fallback for your later years (eg should you live to 100, say) when other funds run out.

Fair and agreed.

Feels to me that most in our GDHTMB community (be they Boomer or GX) are relatively financially secure/placed/prepared and in a similar realm/headspace.

Many of the general population, even most perhaps, are not though so scaled % based impact at this site would not speak to the overall norm.

Either way...

...if untrue I am happy to see that those here who it would hamper are not subject to the negative influence issues.

...if it were to prove factual down the road (and I Imagine eventually it will as some Euro countries have/are moving towards) I am happy that most here are able to shrug their shoulders, give it the old meh and carry on normally.

[Per]

People are living longer, so either pensions have to start being paid out later in life or be reduced.
A third possibility is to increase the payments into the system, whether that is a deduction from pay, payroll tax or a fee.
But that would be even harder to get people to accept.

Or start handing out cigarettes and booze for free.

I said in high school already that there is no way my generation would be able to retire before 70, but I am pleasantly surprised that they have only raised the age to 67 for my age group. I mean, technically I can go at 63, but then I'll receive a reduced amount.

I'll get by either way though. I have some savings, mostly in stocks and bonds, I've paid off all debt and own my own home.
I also have 195 ha of forest up north. Not much left of it that is primed for logging within my lifetime, but my father and I replanted a fairly large chunk of it some 35 years ago, after it had been clearcut, and that part should be due for thinning within the next decade.
The trees won't be good for lumber, they're too young, but you still get fairly decent pay from the pulp mills.

The trees grow slow up there, so you tend to do a thinning after 40 years, a second thinning after 80 and then you clearcut at 120.
So you're not really planting for your children; you're planting for your grandchildren, or more likely for their children.

[donlever]

A third possibility is to increase the payments into the system, whether that is a deduction from pay, payroll tax or a fee.
But that would be even harder to get people to accept.

Or start handing out cigarettes and booze for free.

CPP contributions from both employer & employee have increased in Canada since 2019.

2019 Enhancement: A multi-year enhancement program was introduced to increase future retirement benefits. This phased in higher rates:

The rate on standard earnings (up to the Year's Maximum Pensionable Earnings, or YMPE) increased from 4.95% to 5.95% between 2019 and 2023.

Starting in 2024, a second earnings threshold (Year's Additional Maximum Pensionable Earnings, or YAMPE) was introduced. Earnings between the YMPE and YAMPE are subject to an additional 4% contribution rate (per employee and employer), which will be fully phased in by 2025.

Cigarettes are heavily taxed in Canada.

[Cousin Strawberry]

Sadly I expected more from a post time stamped 4:20

[Meds]

Or close immigration doors and restrict the ridiculously easy to obtain social supports that people get for NOT working. That would force people to work and automatically contribute to their own futures.

[rats19]

Yes….

[5thhorseman]

Or close immigration doors and restrict the ridiculously easy to obtain social supports that people get for NOT working. That would force people to work and automatically contribute to their own futures.

Agree with the second part of your statement but not the first. As our population is aging, social programs (EI, CPP) will be difficult to keep funded. Immigration solves of this problem by replenishing the younger end of the population. Of course the number of immigrants allowed needs to be proportionate.

[Cousin Strawberry]

Equal representation in the countries of origin for these immigrants would help ease the perception that we are getting flooded with these or those people as well

[JelloPuddingPop]

Sorry for the mess here, not sure how to condense this further!

That would have been fine if he had actually taken the stance he said he would, instead of initially putting in counter tariffs that broke the USMCA agreement (Trump only targeted the exempt 15%, and specific industries like steel/aluminum,). Then he followed up with dropping random tariffs and taxes without announcing most till well after the fact. All the while, pumping the 15st state as an existential threat to Canada, which short of a military invasion, there is no legal framework for it.

I think context is important in this portion of the discussion - Trump has been flip/flopping like the Chef on a typical Tuesday - and Carney's team is just doing it's best to react/deal with these unexpected economic attacks from the south. Adding tariffs, removing tariffs - a lot of escalation/de-escalation and watching how Trump reacts, a lot in real time - as he seems to govern through social media. I'm not sure I've seen a government having to react like this, certainly no playbook here. Not sure any other leader would be doing a better job. Just trying to cope.

The US is a threat to Canada - economically. They are our biggest trade partner - and in some large industries. Our only trading partner. The way Trump is running things, this issue is going to be felt up here for years to come, in unemployment, cost of living etc.

While he was Trudeau's advisor, Trudeau tried to push through a bill allowing totally uncontrolled government spending, without oversight, as if that is what would protect us from Covid. He was there in lock step with that one. In addition, by driving up the debt, and competing with industry he is extending control over the economy. Fascism isn't government ownership, it is government control through puppet ownership, where the government is the parents who grant approval in the relationship

I see this talking point a lot, but as an advisor - how much of a role/responsibility did he have in every decision that moron made? Trudeau was a disaster, and I'm not sure he listened to any of his staff/advisors. Just look at his 2nd in command's actions toward the end of their reign. Freeland full up left. Carney likely just saw his shot and took it. For all we know, he could have been counselling Trudeau to resign the whole time.

His government has repeatedly ignored the rise in crime (his new legislation is not much more than lip service), and recently, they decided to side with the Supreme Court when the SC deemed a 1 year mandatory sentence for child porn as unreasonable. the Constitution is to protect our Rights, but the SC is creating new 'rights', and his government is OK with that. They are still allowing 2 tiered justice with judges using immigration status as a reason to lower both the severity of the charges and the sentence so the crime will not interfere with an immigrant's chances of being a citizen.

This legislation was challenged, and deemed unconstitutional - I don't agree with it. But its the SC job to interpret the constitution. Not sure Carney has any say here. He hasn't appointed any SC Justices. So his influence here is negligible no?

No. I mean the list of 32 projects the government has deemed 'fit' to be potentially approved and fast tracked. This is a good start to ensuring business and industry go 'knees down' on the government to have a snowballs chance in hell of being approved. Picking favorites, winners, and losers is absolutely a move to control individual companies and industries.

Capitalist Governments have been doing this for centuries Tciso. Nothing new here.

Don't forget the extra $346 million for all of the other media outlets, including the other major news networks. And, their coverage shows they know who is paying the bills.

PP has also said he would support public funding for political journalism, and would move forward with alternative funding for programs like Local Journalism Initiative. I think its important, or this type of journalism would go by the wayside, replaced with bloggers, vloggers, Instagram creators whatever hell else. Is it perfect, no, but not a step towards authoritarianism.

Its also a part of issues like being OK when the SC over turns legislation like the child porn minimum sentences.

Again, was Carney's Gov. responsible for this?

The almost total lack of transparency is also astounding. Documents that are legally ordered by committees are not produced, or redacted beyond recognition.

This lack of transparency has been an issue going back decades - on the other side of the aisle as well, just look at Harper's Gov. They silenced reporters, scientists and prevented them from talking to the public about anything they were working on with serious retribution. A true lack of transparency there.

I am not saying we are in a Fascist state, just that many of the government's actions are trending that way.

I think your points more show that each and every Government Canada has had has tried to move that way, and were voted out because of their failings. Transparency, Nepotism, Silencing of opponents/experts. All trends of each of our last 5 Governments.

Yet, here we are - free to discuss it. Free to talk about it. Free to disagree, and use our vote to try to make change. Because of this, I still don't agree with your supposition here.

[JelloPuddingPop]

Equal representation in the countries of origin for these immigrants would help ease the perception that we are getting flooded with these or those people as well

Really valid point here - and worth developing a bit more. Luring over educated/skilled trades from everywhere should be a focus. Not just an open door policy to one, or maybe two countries - just because they want to be here.

[JelloPuddingPop]

I think it's in the title of the thread....."sliding towards".

Trudeau definitely behaved more dictatorial than any PM's that I can recall in my lifetime. His government was certainly more overbearing and curtailing of freedoms. Their approach to gun ownership alone is evidence of a desire to exert more control than previous "regimes". Their handling of vaccine mandates is another such example of authoritarianism.

Obviously the countries that you listed from the AI list, are far and away more authoritarian than Canada. But again, it's a slippery slope, and every free country that has slid into authoritarianism started with small steps.

I think the title was actually "Is Mark Carney sliding towards Fascism"

Totally disagree and have to call complete and utter bullshit on that. Not even Scandinavian nations are as far away from Fascism as the Canucks are from winning a Cup.

You are probably right here. Sigh.

[Meds]

Or close immigration doors and restrict the ridiculously easy to obtain social supports that people get for NOT working. That would force people to work and automatically contribute to their own futures.

Agree with the second part of your statement but not the first. As our population is aging, social programs (EI, CPP) will be difficult to keep funded. Immigration solves of this problem by replenishing the younger end of the population. Of course the number of immigrants allowed needs to be proportionate.

Currently, our immigration problem is that working age individuals from other countries get permanent residency status and then bring family members over. Many of these family members are in the same age range as our soon-to-be retiring (or already have) population. They will never contribute but are coming here at the point in their lives where they will be a drain on our socially funded services. Close that door, or increase the percentage of taxes taken from people who sponsor immigrants into the country until it is documented that those individuals are employed and paying their own way. Those individuals should also have to remain in the general workforce for a period of no less than 10 years, should they cease to work for any reason the sponsor then resumes increased contributions.

[Meds]

I think it's in the title of the thread....."sliding towards".

Trudeau definitely behaved more dictatorial than any PM's that I can recall in my lifetime. His government was certainly more overbearing and curtailing of freedoms. Their approach to gun ownership alone is evidence of a desire to exert more control than previous "regimes". Their handling of vaccine mandates is another such example of authoritarianism.

Obviously the countries that you listed from the AI list, are far and away more authoritarian than Canada. But again, it's a slippery slope, and every free country that has slid into authoritarianism started with small steps.

I think the title was actually "Is Mark Carney sliding towards Fascism"

Indeed. However, you are as aware as anyone that Carney was in Trudeau's ear for much of his term as PM.

[JelloPuddingPop]

I think it's in the title of the thread....."sliding towards".

Trudeau definitely behaved more dictatorial than any PM's that I can recall in my lifetime. His government was certainly more overbearing and curtailing of freedoms. Their approach to gun ownership alone is evidence of a desire to exert more control than previous "regimes". Their handling of vaccine mandates is another such example of authoritarianism.

Obviously the countries that you listed from the AI list, are far and away more authoritarian than Canada. But again, it's a slippery slope, and every free country that has slid into authoritarianism started with small steps.

I think the title was actually "Is Mark Carney sliding towards Fascism"

Indeed. However, you are as aware as anyone that Carney was in Trudeau's ear for much of his term as PM.

I am aware he was an advisor.

What I'm not aware of is how much influence he had on that twit.

As much as Mario Dion? Or as much as Freeland?