Old World Politics - rising from the ashes

[Meds]

Europe has a long bloody history of conflict between the member nations (and some of the nations who are not EU members but still part of the continent).....but it seems that for the most part, over the past 60 years, they have figured it out and learned how to get along. It's a very progressive way of thinking, a way that I think the majority of North Americans are on board with when you get down to the brass tacks of it. However, Europe is too heavily influenced by "superior thinking" and they think that words are the weapons that carry the day.....this is a very progressive idea, one that too many of our Canadian politicians (particularly on the left side of the aisle) share. It comes with a failure to actually realize that your high moral stance means exactly jack shit when the enemy kicks your door in and outguns you 10 to 1.

America, in my opinion, is the only nation that strikes a balance on this. They lean towards wanting to hold the moral high ground, but enough of them are very very aware that they better have the biggest stick in case the bully decides he wants their lunch money.....and while the US will posture and make statements, they will eventually use their big stick when push comes to shove. Europe has typically been unwilling to do this outside of UNSC operations.

The only way for your stated solution to the Ukraine is for the EU to actually go to war with Russia and remove Putin from power. This may sound extreme, but the bottom line is that Putin, and his circle of peers, do not give two shits about the Geneva convention, they don't care about international law, they don't care that the progressive Eurothinktank condemn their actions in Ukraine, they don't lose any sleep whatsoever over the opinions of the EU governments and their citizens, and they are largely unconcerned with the UN Charter.

So.....you want the war in Ukraine to stop? You either make concessions that fly in the face of your cherished laws and conventions, or you go to war to enforce them.

[Chef Boi RD]

Never make concessions with that fucktard Putin, go to war if it comes to it. The conservatives have no balls, shameful.

[Meds]

Never make concessions with that fucktard Putin, go to war if it comes to it. The conservatives have no balls, shameful.

The Conservatives?

[Chef Boi RD]

I only see one party boot licking Putin. Seems like Agent Orange is willing to give Putin whatever Putin wants to keep Putin happy, wouldn’t be surprised if he gives him a hummer at the same time, or request a reach around.

[Megaterio Llamas]

Everybody's anxious to fight to the last Ukrainian.

Liberals need to get off the couch and into the fight if they want war so badly.

[Megaterio Llamas]

According to this Aug 7 Gallup poll, the Ukrainians have finally had enough.

LONDON — Most Ukrainians now favor ending the war with Russia through negotiations, as support for fighting until victory has dropped sharply since the early days of the conflict. Although their hopes for joining NATO and the European Union have faded and approval of U.S. leadership has plummeted, Ukrainians still see the EU, U.K. and U.S. as key to ending the war. Yet, most doubt that will happen anytime soon.

More than three years into the war, Ukrainians’ support for continuing to fight until victory has hit a new low. In Gallup’s most recent poll of Ukraine — conducted in early July — 69% say they favor a negotiated end to the war as soon as possible, compared with 24% who support continuing to fight until victory.

This marks a nearly complete reversal from public opinion in 2022, when 73% favored Ukraine fighting until victory and 22% preferred that Ukraine seek a negotiated end as soon as possible.



https://news.gallup.com/poll/693203/ukr ... apses.aspx

As much fun as it's been, all good things must eventually come to an end.

Even this fucking thing...

[Tciso]

I only see one party boot licking Putin. Seems like Agent Orange is willing to give Putin whatever Putin wants to keep Putin happy, wouldn’t be surprised if he gives him a hummer at the same time, or request a reach around.

I see it differently. Trump is making sure every T is crossed, and I dotted before he goes off. He has seen the backlash for starting wars without trying everything possible first. If he start his war on Inauguration Day, he would have been crucified. But, people are seeing that defeating Putin is pretty much the only option, and are starting to push Trump in that direction. And, he has managed to keep the support flowing, but it's now Europe paying, not just the USA.

Trump's #1 target has always been China, and it will likely stay that way. He knows Europe can defeat Russia, and is now spending enough on their militaries to do it. The USA is working closer with Australia, S Korea and Japan.

[Chef Boi RD]

IMHO, after all the dust has settled on his failed attempts Trump will discover that everyone was right about Putin. There’s no changing him. If you don’t think Putin is laughing at Trump right now give your head a shake.

[Per]

Never make concessions with that fucktard Putin, go to war if it comes to it. The conservatives have no balls, shameful.

The Conservatives?

He means Trump and Vance, who are bending over backwards to make Putin happy instead of siding with their Nato allies.

[Per]

The only way for your stated solution to the Ukraine is for the EU to actually go to war with Russia and remove Putin from power. This may sound extreme, but the bottom line is that Putin, and his circle of peers, do not give two shits about the Geneva convention, they don't care about international law, they don't care that the progressive Eurothinktank condemn their actions in Ukraine, they don't lose any sleep whatsoever over the opinions of the EU governments and their citizens, and they are largely unconcerned with the UN Charter.

So.....you want the war in Ukraine to stop? You either make concessions that fly in the face of your cherished laws and conventions, or you go to war to enforce them.

Agreed. And since the concessions are unthinkable, as that would tear up the rules based world order that has been pretty successful after WW2, imho the only reasonable thing to do would be to declare war against Russia. We all know what the concessions in 1938 led to.

[Meds]

The only way for your stated solution to the Ukraine is for the EU to actually go to war with Russia and remove Putin from power. This may sound extreme, but the bottom line is that Putin, and his circle of peers, do not give two shits about the Geneva convention, they don't care about international law, they don't care that the progressive Eurothinktank condemn their actions in Ukraine, they don't lose any sleep whatsoever over the opinions of the EU governments and their citizens, and they are largely unconcerned with the UN Charter.

So.....you want the war in Ukraine to stop? You either make concessions that fly in the face of your cherished laws and conventions, or you go to war to enforce them.

Agreed. And since the concessions are unthinkable, as that would tear up the rules based world order that has been pretty successful after WW2, imho the only reasonable thing to do would be to declare war against Russia. We all know what the concessions in 1938 led to.

Does EU leadership, and citizenry, have the appetite for this?

Obviously nobody with any reasonable sense of morality wants to go to war…..I just mean if it is required.

[Megaterio Llamas]

I'm hearing from some commentators who follow this closely that they might agree to an air truce—stop bombing each other's energy infrastructure, that sort of thing. That's probably the most we can expect to come out of this. This would be more of a face-saving gesture for Trump than anything.

[Chef Boi RD]

Putin wants world war 3. He’ll keep upsetting the Apple cart, until we finally break, and when it happens he’ll say what took you so long. I see no winning him over here. He wants to go down in history this way.

[Megaterio Llamas]

They have 5500 nuclear warheads and some very advanced delivery systems that they continue to roll out. The latest is the Burevestnik, a low-flying nuclear-powered hypersonic missile with a global range that can loiter in place for days. They're getting so far ahead of the Americans in missile tech that the gap is generational.

To make matters worse, China, in response to Trump's economic war, has stopped selling processed rare earth minerals to the US for military use, and the Chinese control 85-90 percent of the world's processed rare earth minerals. They can actually shut down the US MIC. It's hard to believe the Trump 'braintrust' apparently didn't consider this before embarking on an economic war with China, but there you have it.

[Chef Boi RD]

Is Trump digging America’s grave? One would think that maintaining strong allies is somewhat important in this day and age instead of burning bridges