State of Canadian Military

[2Fingers]

I wont preface to say I am in anyway a military expert but multiple Canadian government have screwed the Canadian military for years. Constantly putting off equipment upgrades through politics and putting our members in a position of using antiquated and sometimes embarrassing equipment.
There are 2 finally 2 major updates coming. First is the purchase of 88 F-35 from 2026 to 2032/34 for an estimated cost of $19B. These planes will be delivered in batches with the first 16 to come in 2025/26. The talk of cancelling future orders and trying a different plane is ridiculous in my opinion. There is a no “kill” switch on the planes that Russia/China or NKorea can access. Can you imagine F-35 even flown by USA pilots all of a sudden not working?

Trump is gone even before we get the rest of the planes and how they interact with NORAD/NATO is imperative to how Canada fights a war. We will never fight USA because it would be over in days if they attacked.

All planes are made in USA with some components made in Canada worth $1B to Canadian firms.

Next major purchase are new River Class destroyers for the Navy. 3 ships have been ordered and it is expected that 15 will be delivered in total over multiple years for a total cost of $77.3B but this includes missiles/weapons used over the life of the ships.

The good part is that the ships are all made in Canada with of course certain components made elsewhere. They are replacing 40 year old ships that hit end of life years ago. The ships are designed for multi use including anti submarine and surface and air support. With the ability to carry 2 multi purpose helicopters.

Sticking with the Navy, Canada has ordered and already received 4-5 artic and off shore patrol ships with another 1-2 still coming. These are also made in Canada for a total cost of $5.0B. Additionally they ordered 2 ice breakers for a total cost of $8.5B with the first ship coming 2030. These are not military vessels per say but will be used to defend our north coast.

Lastly with the Navy the government has decided to look at 12 new submarines that will most likely not be nuclear (need USA approval) but diesel. These submarines will be designed with the artic in mind and with the ability to go under the ice which our current 30-40 barely functioning submarines can't do now. Remember the fun and embarrassment when 1 of the used subs caught fire coming to Canada?

Canada has ordered helicopters to replace its aging fleet. The new helicopters are at a cost of $18B starting with delivery 2033 and full operations by 2038. No helicopter has been chosen but multi role is strategic.

I will finalize with the fact that the government is also looking at other military equipment from drones to vehicles (not sure about tanks) and missiles. Of course some of these are far off and who knows what future governments who are newly elected and will cancel. But I feel that will happen less and less now as Canada needs to look after ourselves and spend up to the 2%. It is not always military actions in foreign countries, we need to support the defence of NA against other countries. Plus military personal have been used to fight wildfires, floods and other events when they are called upon.

Now the military needs to fill the ranks with new men/women ready to defend the country. Pay is so-so but there are a lot of benefits including good education bonuses and pensions.

Some of the numbers noted above might be combinations of different purchases and timelines so look at them as such.

[5thhorseman]

Thanks for the summary Reef. Nice to see a lot of made in Canada stuff.

[Meds]

Lastly with the Navy the government has decided to look at 12 new submarines that will most likely not be nuclear (need USA approval) but diesel. These submarines will be designed with the artic in mind and with the ability to go under the ice which our current 30-40 barely functioning submarines can't do now. Remember the fun and embarrassment when 1 of the used subs caught fire coming to Canada?

Great post Reefer.

On the need for US approval, Reagan already approved the transfer of that tech for Canada to build them. That's more than 30 years ago now, and it sounds like a complicated mess. Apparently Canada was unwilling to go that way to avoid any hurt feelings.....how typically Canadian.

Late on an April afternoon in 1988, the long awaited word from the White House reached the U.S. national security bureaucracy President Reagan had approved the transfer of U.S.-developed nuclear submarine propulsion technology to Canada and would inform Prime Minister Brian Mulroney during his visit to Washington later that month. The opponents of the transfer, the Department of Defense, the United States Navy and the Department of Energy the home of naval reactors, were stunned. In spite of lukewarm support from State, the NSC staff, and the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency ACDA for approval, how, in the face of seemingly compelling national security arguments against it, could the President say yes Yet it had happened and there were to be no appeals. The Secretaries of State, Defense, and Energy were instructed to negotiate the necessary agreements to allow the transfer-- conditioned only to protect classified nuclear technology design information. It appeared that the issue had been lost--or had it The dance which was to follow between the bureaucracies of the United States and Canada, and to a lesser extent the United Kingdom and France, eventually was to result in a decision by Mr. Mulroney not to seek nuclear submarines at all.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA437607

Also.....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/aukus- ... -1.6837792

Seems that it was a key reason for us being left out of what became a trilateral defence pact between the US, UK, and Australia.....or at least a key part of the overall reason, that Canada has lagged so far behind in our own defence spending that we aren't worth involving in any sort of actual military alliances.

I don't disagree. Canadians should be ABSOLUTELY ASHAMED that we have not held our politician's feet to the fucking fire over the state of our armed forces going back to Mulroney.

[Topper]

The F-35's should have been in service already. The original purchase decision was made by Harper before being cancelled by Trudeau with his "Canada will never buy the F-35" rhetoric only to have a multiple years long study to find the F-35 was the correct choice. Now we pay $40M more per plane.

Recent study showed only 40% of the existing F-18 fleet is operable and getting worse before the F-35 is delivered.

The Destroyer contract was awarded to staunch Liberal supporter Irving Shipyards after they had failed with the Arctic and Offshore Patrol Vessels. They can't tow as they were spec'd to, cranes are problematic, helicopter pads don't work, they leak around the anchors. The 1 year warranty means taxpayers are on the hook for repairs.

The Destroyer is a copy of the British design, but 3x the price.

Canadian soldiers based in Lithuania were buying bullet proof vests from Amazon to replace their inadequate CAF issued kit.

What of the Arctic sleeping bags that weren't insulated enough for Arctic conditions?

The 10+ years of trying to replace the WW2 vintage standard sidearm?

Don't even start on helicopters.

[Meds]

The 10+ years of trying to replace the WW2 vintage standard sidearm.

This one has always puzzled the hell outta me. What’s the problem? Is it just a government that doesn’t want to pony up the money? If the delay is a bunch of government committee nonsense to have multiple reports on what the best replacement for an 80 year old gun is, then every one of those officials should be fired and then deported for economic crimes against the state, as well as for the general theft of oxygen from our atmosphere.

What are our closest allies using? The SIG Sauer M17. Use that.

[Topper]

The 10+ years of trying to replace the WW2 vintage standard sidearm.

This one has always puzzled the hell outta me. What’s the problem? Is it just a government that doesn’t want to pony up the money? If the delay is a bunch of government committee nonsense to have multiple reports on what the best replacement for an 80 year old gun is, then every one of those officials should be fired and then deported for economic crimes against the state, as well as for the general theft of oxygen from our atmosphere.

What are our closest allies using? The SIG Sauer M17. Use that.

They insisted that who ever won the contract have it built by Colt at their Ontario factory. Who will bid on a contract where you have to hand over the design to a competitor?

The process ended up being deemed noncompetitive and had to be restarted.

We ended up buying the SIG P320.

[2Fingers]

Tops, I agree with what you said about current state but I did not hear anything about the issues with the new ships. As it was given to a Liberal supporter I am not surprised and conservatives would have done the same thing. As per the cost, again not surprised but at least it is made in Canada and cannot be screwed over by another country. Sometimes you pay more for it to be Canadian and I am ok with that.

[2Fingers]

https://ottawacitizen.com/public-servic ... rs-rockets

Some new spending by the government, after decades of neglect it’s going to take years to bring respectability back to the Canadian military. Some are saying we should invest in Canadian companies to build ships/submarines but that doubles the price and adds year to delivery time. I do like that least the government is having companies invest in Canada so part of the supply chain is within the country.