The Rebuild - What it should look like

[Hockey Widow]

It is such a tough question to answer.

I think we can all agree that we need to have some seasoned vets on the team for all the blah blah blah reasons. The question is who? Some of that will be answered by players with trade protection, if they don't want to move we don't move them. I think DeBrusk is ready to move on, being frustrated with his healthy scratch and his/team performance. I would love to move on from Boeser. He was said to have had several suitors, some of who offered more than the Canucks. Any of them still interested? Can we convince NYR that both he and JT wil find a tremendous resurgence if they are reunited?

Obviously you move out all FA for best offer. Kane, Bluegar, Kampf. Unfortunately Forbert is likely done for the year.

You know my feelings on Demko. Get him out of here.

So I would be content to see Debrusk, Demko, Boeser and all FAs gone. That would be enough for me this year. Next year you move Myers, his NMC changes to a modified NTC. MPete can stay as a mentor on D, unless they pick up a more worthy Dman to hold down that role on the left side.

Number 40, I am a toilet seat on him. If you get a home run without retention sure go for it. But we need a potential top 6 centre back. A young 20-22 year old with that potential that can step in now to begin to develop.

Chytle is what he is. I doubt there is any trade value. His risk of a career ending hit is high. So if he still wants to play then he keep him for another year. OTOH, if someone makes an offer then explore that. He is not a long term solution for us.

They want to get Lekkermaki up to play out the season this year. That would be a wise move. We have got to get him NHL games so we can see if he really is a top six player.

We have a couple of kids lighting up juniors in Patterson and forget his name. Maybe one of them is ready for an audition next year. Also, it is likely they use their one expedition on Cootes next year so he will be available to audition, up and down if need be. So some help is on the way but it will take time to develop into the NHL.It is sad that we have so little in the wings for forwards.

[Meds]

Keep in mind, when this current team has had 2 serviceable top 6 centers, they are 9-5-1, so it’s closer than people think. This doesn't have to be a 10 year rebuild, I think it needs planning and a culture change (followed by a coaching or system change)

If culture change is what you identify as the primary need, Petey needs to go.

Other than Boeser, Myers, and Demko, he’s the only guy who has been a part of 6 out 7 years of underachieving. He was at the nexus of the implosion. He seemingly has no interest in leadership, and Foote omitting his name when listing the leadership group did not go unnoticed by many.

For the record, I am not against Petey going. I actually agree, he SHOULD go.. what I am saying is he can't go right now. If this (any) team does not have 2 top 6 centers, they are gonna get caved in.

In case you haven't looked, they are winless in 11 games.....they ARE getting caved in.

If we trade Petey, we HAVE to get a top 6 back. Like it or not, even a weak #1 center (65-70 point producer) is better than a pair of #2 centers.

A 2C IS a top 6 skater. Not sure if you were aware of that.

For the last 20-25 games, Petey has been playing like a #1 center again.

Our definitions must differ here or something. Pettersson has 10 points in his last 20 games.

[Meds]

With the OEL buyout on the books for the next several years, how much additional (yes I know the OEL buyout drops to $2.1M/yr for it's last four years and the cap may be increasing) can the team take on or be willing to take on. It is a Luongo ball and chain.

I've been ruminating about this particular subject for a few days.

I think the total value of any "cap weaponizing" is not as important as the term of that weaponizing.

If this is to be considered Rebuild Year One, then my thoughts are that any bad contracts they take back, or any retention they offer, should not be more than 3 years in duration. If the cap space in question is owned by a player that will at least play a meaningful shift, or be permanently in the Shea Weber category, then I think 4 years from now is doable.

If we're picking players that project to be impact skaters, then there is a greater likelihood of them making the NHL team in their first year or two. This means that their ELC's are finished in 3 years time and extensions will need to be had. Connor Bedard will be a new benchmark for elite forwards signing their first extension as that is the type of player we are hoping to land with a top-3 pick this year.

Recall, even Scooter's second contract was $7.35M x 3.

Ideally, when OEL's buyout is completely off the books, there isn't any retained salary from anyone else remaining either (start of 2030-31 season).

When we start hitting 2031, the hope should be that the off-season goals are plugging roster holes with more than just a temporary patch. Top youngsters should be on bridge deals (unless they are showing very clearly that a max term deal makes sense) and the team should be in the mix for a premium UFA that kicks the compete window wide open.

With that in mind, retaining on Scooter for 6 years should be avoided unless the return is an overwhelmingly good gift horse.

[Tciso]

I've stayed quiet for a bit. I dunno what to expect from this group, as I don't know if we are going to stick with a rebuild. We have been at these cross roads before, built up some pretty good playstation teams, and watched them fall apart.

If we cannot figure out culture and playing style, the rebuild will fail again. We will get a few good kids. Hit a rough patch, and dump a few. Hit another rough patch, and another trade. Dump a coach or 2. And, voila, we can be in the same place again in 3-5 years.

Or, we can select players for their playing style that matches the team's style. Select players with heart n drive. Select coaches that coach the style.

As MCP said "The GM the -new- owner hires".

[Meds]

Karlsson is not going to be a core player, of course. His just a complement that doesn't necessarily need recycling.

Was Alex Burrows a core player?

It's hard to say if the team became what it was without him and Kesler.

Most would say the core was Hank/Dank/Lou.

Edler and Hamhuis later additions to it, but the long-term core of that team was the trio I mentioned.

But Burrows did what few others could, he played multiple seasons with the Sedins, was a critical special teams guy, and came through in some very clutch moments, sometimes when Hank and Dank weren't even on the ice.

[Picker of Cherries]

I don’t think there will be as much movement as some fans dream about.
Before the TDL, Blugers and Kane, outside shot at DeBrusk.
In the summer, Myers, once his limited NMC kicks in.
That’s about it.
If they are smart, they won’t buy out anyone in another rebuild year next season.
They’ll be bringing back most of the same cast next year.

I’m sure they’ll be a lot better next season because the young defence will mature, Demko, Rossi and Chytil will be healthy, and Boeser and Meaty will have bounce back seasons.
(sometimes I’m friggin’ hilarious!)

[donlever]

Nuckertuzzi doesn't get it...

[Madcombinepilot]

Keep in mind, when this current team has had 2 serviceable top 6 centers, they are 9-5-1, so it’s closer than people think. This doesn't have to be a 10 year rebuild, I think it needs planning and a culture change (followed by a coaching or system change)

If culture change is what you identify as the primary need, Petey needs to go.

Other than Boeser, Myers, and Demko, he’s the only guy who has been a part of 6 out 7 years of underachieving. He was at the nexus of the implosion. He seemingly has no interest in leadership, and Foote omitting his name when listing the leadership group did not go unnoticed by many.

For the record, I am not against Petey going. I actually agree, he SHOULD go.. what I am saying is he can't go right now. If this (any) team does not have 2 top 6 centers, they are gonna get caved in.

In case you haven't looked, they are winless in 11 games.....they ARE getting caved in.

If we trade Petey, we HAVE to get a top 6 back. Like it or not, even a weak #1 center (65-70 point producer) is better than a pair of #2 centers.

A 2C IS a top 6 skater. Not sure if you were aware of that.

For the last 20-25 games, Petey has been playing like a #1 center again.

Our definitions must differ here or something. Pettersson has 10 points in his last 20 games.

Not sure if your being obstinate, blinded by your petey hate or trolling because your bored.. but you are absolutely refusing to see any other view.

but, Read the game notes, bud. WHEN they have had 2 real top 6 centers at the same time, they are 9-5-1 (or something like that). You keep saying that Petey sucks so bad and he has to go, I said sure send him, but a top 2 line center has to come back. They are getting caved because there is only 1 center playing right now. Thanks for proving my point! It's actually been that way for most of the year, if you would have bothered to notice. If I seem condescending with that comment, its because I am and I don't want you to miss it. (Condescending is when I talk down to you)

Pettersson, despite your hate has been double teamed and playing the hardest minutes he has ever played. If his wingers had scored more that 3 goals in the last 20 games, pretty sure Pettersson would have more points. Its not rocket science. All the top six wingers are slumping because in any given game, half of them don't have anyone that can distribute the puck - that whole "only one center thing...

but hey, a wise man once said:
"never bring logic to an emotional fight"

Anyways, not commenting on this with you anymore as it is simply an exercise in futility.

Cheers! Have a good day!

[dbr]

(Condescending is when I talk down to you)

[JelloPuddingPop]

(Condescending is when I talk down to you)

[Meds]

Keep in mind, when this current team has had 2 serviceable top 6 centers, they are 9-5-1, so it’s closer than people think. This doesn't have to be a 10 year rebuild, I think it needs planning and a culture change (followed by a coaching or system change)

If culture change is what you identify as the primary need, Petey needs to go.

Other than Boeser, Myers, and Demko, he’s the only guy who has been a part of 6 out 7 years of underachieving. He was at the nexus of the implosion. He seemingly has no interest in leadership, and Foote omitting his name when listing the leadership group did not go unnoticed by many.

For the record, I am not against Petey going. I actually agree, he SHOULD go.. what I am saying is he can't go right now. If this (any) team does not have 2 top 6 centers, they are gonna get caved in.

In case you haven't looked, they are winless in 11 games.....they ARE getting caved in.

If we trade Petey, we HAVE to get a top 6 back. Like it or not, even a weak #1 center (65-70 point producer) is better than a pair of #2 centers.

A 2C IS a top 6 skater. Not sure if you were aware of that.

For the last 20-25 games, Petey has been playing like a #1 center again.

Our definitions must differ here or something. Pettersson has 10 points in his last 20 games.

Not sure if your being obstinate, blinded by your petey hate or trolling because your bored.. but you are absolutely refusing to see any other view.

Actually, I wasn't trying to troll at all. (Ok, I was being a cheeky bastard when I pointed out that bit about a 2C).

but, Read the game notes, bud. WHEN they have had 2 real top 6 centers at the same time, they are 9-5-1 (or something like that). You keep saying that Petey sucks so bad and he has to go, I said sure send him, but a top 2 line center has to come back. They are getting caved because there is only 1 center playing right now. Thanks for proving my point! It's actually been that way for most of the year, if you would have bothered to notice. If I seem condescending with that comment, its because I am and I don't want you to miss it. (Condescending is when I talk down to you)

I've more than once acknowledged improvement in his game this season over last. That he is playing the tough match-ups, that he is defensively astute. However, I hardly see him double teamed anymore than anyone else.

Seeing as we haven't had a real 2nd line center all year until Rossi arrived.....and he's not wow'ing at this point. 9-5-1 with a pair of real top-6 pivots? Are you projecting back to last season with that? I mean, the team has 5 wins since Hughes was traded, 16 total. I think the difference you are inferring on the center position was actually the Hughes factor.

I won't condescend in return here, even though it is deserved, because it doesn't do anything for discussion.

Pettersson, despite your hate has been double teamed and playing the hardest minutes he has ever played. If his wingers had scored more that 3 goals in the last 20 games, pretty sure Pettersson would have more points. Its not rocket science. All the top six wingers are slumping because in any given game, half of them don't have anyone that can distribute the puck - that whole "only one center thing...

Hardest minutes? Yes. Double teamed? No more than anyone else who is a 1C in this league.

So it's the wingers' fault that he doesn't have more points.

If half of the top-6 wingers have a center who can distribute the puck, why is it that "all the top six wingers are slumping"?

I think we are back to the definition of a 1C. A 1C drives a line and elevates his wingers. He does this even when double teamed and up against the tough match-ups. But again, it's not about what the player is doing, it's about the change in culture.....and I never said we don't need a top-6 center coming back. Not once.

but hey, a wise man once said:
"never bring logic to an emotional fight"

That was my mistake, sorry. I didn't realize you were having an emotional fight.

Anyways, not commenting on this with you anymore as it is simply an exercise in futility.

Cheers! Have a good day!

It is said that a wise man knows when he's beat.

[Meds]

I don’t think there will be as much movement as some fans dream about.
Before the TDL, Blugers and Kane, outside shot at DeBrusk.
In the summer, Myers, once his limited NMC kicks in.
That’s about it.
If they are smart, they won’t buy out anyone in another rebuild year next season.
They’ll be bringing back most of the same cast next year.

I’m sure they’ll be a lot better next season because the young defence will mature, Demko, Rossi and Chytil will be healthy, and Boeser and Meaty will have bounce back seasons.
(sometimes I’m friggin’ hilarious!)

Or impossibly prophesying the most unlikely scenario.

[Hockey Widow]

The problem I fear with this, or any rebuild this team will do, is that once they think oh we are close, if everything goes right, to being competitive and making the playoffs then they begin to be buyers. I didn't mind the Zadorov addition but Lindholm was disaster written all over it. And it cost us future assets, namely another first. I dont see the patience for a true rebuild. Thus the waffling by Allvin to call it a hybrid rebuild. I think they will try to move a few more players, grab another first if they can, maybe another young roster player/prospect and few few later round picks and call it done.

A true rebuild takes time as we all know. 3-5 years before you start to see blue sky. 3-5 years of drafting high and turning over vets on a yearly basis to bolster getting younger. Not all in one season. FA does not have the patience for a 3-5 year rebuild and development plan. He just doesn't.

So while I support tearing it down I dont support doing it all this year. Slowly, incrementally you move out players and bring younger assets/picks into the organization. Slowly you add FA vets to supplement. Vets like Sherwood, or Bluegar or Myers. 1-2 year deals to help with development. No not this guys but guys of that ilk. You need to be methodical and have a development and transition plan for every young prospect.

Unless we get lucky and draft a generational player this is our reality.

[Meds]

The problem I fear with this, or any rebuild this team will do, is that once they think oh we are close, if everything goes right, to being competitive and making the playoffs then they begin to be buyers. I didn't mind the Zadorov addition but Lindholm was disaster written all over it. And it cost us future assets, namely another first. I dont see the patience for a true rebuild. Thus the waffling by Allvin to call it a hybrid rebuild. I think they will try to move a few more players, grab another first if they can, maybe another young roster player/prospect and few few later round picks and call it done.

A true rebuild takes time as we all know. 3-5 years before you start to see blue sky. 3-5 years of drafting high and turning over vets on a yearly basis to bolster getting younger. Not all in one season. FA does not have the patience for a 3-5 year rebuild and development plan. He just doesn't.

So while I support tearing it down I dont support doing it all this year. Slowly, incrementally you move out players and bring younger assets/picks into the organization. Slowly you add FA vets to supplement. Vets like Sherwood, or Bluegar or Myers. 1-2 year deals to help with development. No not this guys but guys of that ilk. You need to be methodical and have a development and transition plan for every young prospect.

Unless we get lucky and draft a generational player this is our reality.

Yeah, I suspect that the plan most of us subscribe to is to trade assets as they expire. Exceptions to that being either offers too good to refuse, or moves that may be necessary to turn the page on the culture of the room.

As for the rest.....yeah, you're far too likely right Wids. Ownership likely short circuits this thing halfway through.

[Ronning's Ghost]

One expedient I have not seen mentioned here is free agents on short-term contracts.

One of them can be this guy:

need a 4C who hits and fights

Since I don't care if he can actually play hockey, so long as he can skate fast enough to catch his targets, he shouldn't be very expensive.

The other type of player I think they should target in free agency would be a couple of aging goal-scorers looking to cash in one last time. Provided they don't have any bad habits to wear off on the youngsters, there can be a lot of warts to their games (e.g. skates back hard on defence, but just not very good at it once they get back into the D-zone -- to small, too slow, whatever) so that they aren't too expensive. The unwritten part of their contracts, but part I think the Canucks would need to share with their agents to get them to sign here, is that they are pump 'n' dump projects: lots of O-zone starts, lots of power play time. Pad their stats, and flip them to a contender at the deadline for whatever they might be worth. It doesn't have to be much, since you spent no draft capital on them in the first place, just a season of Aquilini money. Rinse, repeat.

Essentially, I suppose, the Kane experiment, except hope that they will actually manage to score, especially when they are told that goal-scoring is essentially their only job. Probably some of the other experiments will fail, too, but keep trying.