Canucks News N Notes 25-26

[Cornuck]

Fml

...man up time boyz.

You talking 'bout us, or the players?

[donlever]

Good read.

Both.

[Carl Yagro]

That's a nice schedule.

Man up for McKenna...

[2Fingers]

With all the current comments about the long term direction of this team I wanted to try and take a look at the positives. I also want to be clear that this team is a not a SC contender at the moment.

If we look at the players who are currently signed long term, i.e EP, BB, Debrusk, Garland, Hronek, M Pettersson and because I still 80% believe QH will resign I will include him. We also have Demko and Lankinen. They always say teams need to build from the net out and if you look at the above I see at least a good nucleus of a team.

If we look at the young guys we have DEP, Willander, Lekkerimaki and Cootes and Rechel and Mancini.

On D – the team is set not for the next 5 years, I believe that Willander has the potential to be top 4, while DEP and Mancini are showing promise to be 4 – 6 type of D, they play smart and are dependable.

Lekkerimaki I project to be 2nd pairing winger with potential to be another BB within 3 years.

Willander I project to be a top 4 defender within 3 – 4 years.

Cootes will be our solid 2nd pairing C, with potential to be more.

Rechel - who knows but he was cheap and right now he is just holding a position because of all the injuries but there is some skill there.

The biggest concerns is of course EP, lets just assume EP turns out to be a 60+ points per year player that gets 20 – 25 goals a year, that’s a solid 2nd line center.

So potentially the team could have 4 – 5 20+ goal scorers in BB, Garland, DeBrusk and EP. The team will win games by all players contributing vs. having a single player get 100+ points. That’s OK, teams have won the SC with this as their team makeup, look at Florida whose top centre had 81 points.

I am not looking at their cap hit, that horse has been beaten to death enough already. I am not going to give up on this team and spend the next 5 years laminating about what the team could have done. Yeah I am wearing sun glasses and drank all the kool-aid, but when I look at the next couple of years I do see a lot to be excited about even though right now it seems hard to do.

The area I would like to see addressed is some assholes (right Doc), a little more piss and vinegar makes everyone play bigger.

Feel free to flame away and ask me not to steal Cuz stash again of course I will always would prefer 2 fingers

[donlever]

A fair post.

A good post.

Thanks Reef.

Let's see what people have to add....

[Hockey Widow]

I don't care what team it is or who the centre is, if you have only one true top six centre your team is in a world of hurt. We have exactly one. For all the reasons that have been stated he isn't getting the points. But he is playing a very good two way game. But he can't do it alone. No way he gets close to 100 points without adding a true top six centre to the roster. Can't be done.

We are treading water and staying in the race but I think we all know we are not a contender. Ive said it before, I'll say it again, do not give up the farm or high picks to get that centre. Not right now. Lets see where we are when we get out of injury hell. Can we start winning more than one in a row? Does our PK improve? No bold moves out of panic please. Seen that movie before only to lament the fact that we gave up yet another first.

[Meds]

With all the current comments about the long term direction of this team I wanted to try and take a look at the positives. I also want to be clear that this team is a not a SC contender at the moment.

You will be hard pressed to find disagreement on that around here methinks.

If we look at the players who are currently signed long term, i.e EP, BB, Debrusk, Garland, Hronek, M Pettersson and because I still 80% believe QH will resign I will include him. We also have Demko and Lankinen. They always say teams need to build from the net out and if you look at the above I see at least a good nucleus of a team.

Lankinen's contract is going to haunt us (as much as a backup goaltender's contract can).

If we look at the young guys we have DEP, Willander, Lekkerimaki and Cootes and Rechel and Mancini.

On D – the team is set not for the next 5 years, I believe that Willander has the potential to be top 4, while DEP and Mancini are showing promise to be 4 – 6 type of D, they play smart and are dependable.

If not for the next 5 years, then how long? Or is that a typo. Clarify that thought.

Lekkerimaki I project to be 2nd pairing winger with potential to be another BB within 3 years.

Only in terms of production. Lekkerimäki doesn't have the frame/physique to be Boeser. Brock can handle net-front duties, he can play on the boards, he can protect the puck with his body. Lekkerimäki cannot, and likely never will. He will have to learn to play a fast game that creates on the rush and jumps into openings at the right time. That requires chemistry with another forward who can play similarly. If that forward presents himself, I can see Lekkerimäki being a 25G/55P 2nd liner winger.

Willander I project to be a top 4 defender within 3 – 4 years.

Sooner that that. He's getting sheltered minutes, but he's a smart player and skates very well. He's also likely to be playing at 6'1" 195lbs in a couple of seasons. I can see him being our 2RSD when he's 22.

Cootes will be our solid 2nd pairing C, with potential to be more.

Perhaps. That's an early prediction.

The biggest concerns is of course EP, lets just assume EP turns out to be a 60+ points per year player that gets 20 – 25 goals a year, that’s a solid 2nd line center.

True. And the way he is playing, that production, in a 2nd line role, would be something to cheer about when you combine it with his 200 foot game. That's not going to work though with his salary because a 1C will want the same cheddar to play on the same team.

So potentially the team could have 4 – 5 20+ goal scorers in BB, Garland, DeBrusk and EP. The team will win games by all players contributing vs. having a single player get 100+ points. That’s OK, teams have won the SC with this as their team makeup, look at Florida whose top centre had 81 points.

I am not looking at their cap hit, that horse has been beaten to death enough already. I am not going to give up on this team and spend the next 5 years laminating about what the team could have done. Yeah I am wearing sun glasses and drank all the kool-aid, but when I look at the next couple of years I do see a lot to be excited about even though right now it seems hard to do.

Boeser, Garland, and DeBrusk, are all reasonably priced. Their cap hit doesn't need to be scrutinized or bitched about.

The area I would like to see addressed is some assholes (right Doc), a little more piss and vinegar makes everyone play bigger.

Kane is starting to find some game, acceptable timeline for that too. Not quite 20 games in on a new team. But this team needs a Tom Wilson.

[Ronning's Ghost]

I wanted to try and take a look at the positives.

This level of upbeat positivity is squandered on a hockey message board. You should be volunteering at Canuck Place.

They always say teams need to build from the net out and... We also have Demko and Lankinen.

Demko is very nearly 30, and his health was suspect when he was drafted. He was great value for the pick, and excepting Hughes, has been the best player on the team relative to his peers around the League for most of his tenure, but they were lucky to get this much out of him.

Lankinen is a career back-up. I know you didn't want to talk about cap hit, but the the value of a player to his team always has to be assessed relative to his cap hit, i.e. his opportunity cost. I can't see a future where Lankinen doesn't struggle to earn his salary.

Of course, Demko's durability could continue to surprise me, and I understand that the Canucks have exciting goalie prospects in the pipeline, but I think that overall, the Canucks cannot count on continued outstanding goaltending going forward.

If we look at the players who are currently signed long term, i.e EP, BB, Debrusk, Garland, Hronek, M Pettersson and because I still 80% believe QH will resign I will include him… if you look at the above I see at least a good nucleus of a team.

EP: As you note later yourself, I don’t think anyone really knows what they have there.

BB: Will be 29 in February. Most forwards best years are behind them at that point, and BB doesn’t seem to me to have any of the characteristics of the ones whose careers ran unusually long. Still a useful player, but not someone to build around for the future.

DeBrusk: see above

Garland: ibid

Hronek: just turned 28, and defensemen last slightly longer, on average.

M. Pettersson: turns 30 in May

The median retirement ages for forwards and defencemen are 31 and 32 years respectively.
(https://summit.sfu.ca/_flysystem/fedora ... d22294.pdf)

They can expect a few more serviceable years out of Hronek, but Except for EP 40 and QH, all of these guys are too old to build a team around.

If we look at the young guys we have DEP, Willander, Lekkerimaki and Cootes and Rechel and Mancini.

And they project to be nice pieces, but from what we have seen so far, complementary pieces. There are no first-line forwards, and I think only Willander has a top-2 D ceiling.

And then you have to compare the results with what all the other teams who have conducted rational, structured rebuilds have accomplished, and wonder how they’re going to beat them. I predicted that Chicago would win another Cup before Vancouver wins its first. Right now, that's looking like one of my better CC predictions.

It’s not a bad team, but in a way, that’s the worst news of all. Mushiocrity is the franchise’s biggest enemy. If JR/PA can put together some kind of stealth tank, get into the McKenna Lottery, and win it, and if he really does turn out to be a generational player, then the whole thing turns around very quickly. But absent that, (or some other kind of outrageous draft or reclamation project luck), this team is built neither to win now, nor to get radically better in the near future.

[Meds]

That's a good breakdown RG.

I think they had a window that opened in 2023 that abruptly closed in 2024 due to internal problems.

I think several of us (and others) saw that coming with Pettersson, wanting to see him moved for other help even during his bridge contract.

Hindsight would seem to indicate that had they kept Horvat, and moved Pettersson for winger help, there may have been more longevity in that window. Who can really say though.....

[2Fingers]

Mëds

Yes that was a typo, meant to say the D is set.

Lekkerimäki - agree with your assessment

Willander - yes probably sooner

RG

Your comments about age are acknowledged but again like I said they are all signed long term and will be here, of course as they grow older they will decline. Who will replace them, no one knows what the future holds for the next 5 years.

Cootes - I think you are under estimating him, or probably I am over estimating him.

What can I say, this is the team we fans have so I am looking only at the positives so I can still enjoy games sitting on my chair with water (still not allowed more than 1 - 2 drinks a week. Can't wait to be allowed to go to the pub and have a beer and watch them lose

[donlever]

That's a good breakdown RG.

I think they had a window that opened in 2023 that abruptly closed in 2024 due to internal problems.

Agree RG, good post.

As for the second comment yeah (sigh) building on that as a moving forward effort would have many of us in a completely different head space.

Again however....

This group is showing some real, high end moxy all things considered.

Have to give both they and the coaching group credit for that.

[Ronning's Ghost]

This group is showing some real, high end moxy all things considered.

Have to give both they and the coaching group credit for that.

We may have gotten spoiled by the few whiffs of success the team has had.

I remember many posts from days of yore along the lines of "all I expect for the price of admission is to see an honest, hard-working effort on the part of the team."

Well, it sounds like you're getting that. It's easier to cheer for a team if you respect the character.

But futility is hard on even the strongest psyche. It's better to have a realistic picture of what it's reasonable to hope for. Enjoy being proud of the determination, effort, and professionalism of a team willing to leave it all on the ice. But don't plan Vancouver's road development around any parade routes.

[UWSaint]

That's a good breakdown RG.

I think they had a window that opened in 2023 that abruptly closed in 2024 due to internal problems.

I think several of us (and others) saw that coming with Pettersson, wanting to see him moved for other help even during his bridge contract.

Hindsight would seem to indicate that had they kept Horvat, and moved Pettersson for winger help, there may have been more longevity in that window. Who can really say though.....

We can say, because that's what we do....

If the window opened in 2023, it opened (IMO) because of Hronek. I don't think moving EP40 for winger helps in a world where defense wasn't addressed. Plus, if there were too many centers and not enough wingers, the team could have easily just made EP40 a LW, which he was good at.

I think getting Hronek and Raty for Horvat (effectively) was ex ante the right call and a good return for a soon-to-be-UFA Horvat. I don't know how knowable the "internal problems" problems were that sidetracked this plan, but that's the crazy bit about people isn't it? They have a way of getting in the way of a good plan. And you know what? Those people issues can sidetrack a rebuild, too.

[Chef Boi RD]

It’s this simple for me, when I look at this team, taking in account their current roster and pipeline (futures) and then consider their conference rivals now and in the future am I going “they (Canucks) are going to win the cup in the next 4-5 years”? No, I’m not, not even close, in fact, far from it. So what’s the goal here? The mushy middle or actually winning the cup? I am at the point where I honestly believe that all the Aqualini’s care about is the year by year tease of just being a playoff team to keep the cash registers flowing.