Canucks News N Notes 25-26

[Lancer]

He got rewarded for a great camp and got a couple of games. With his smarts I am sure he has recognized what he needs to work on to keep developing. Smart move sending him down.

For all of his ambition, I agree that Cootes could see the writing on the wall. I don't think even he would prefer to play 10 minutes a night trying to survive his shifts while learning on the fly in the NHL over playing top-line minutes, a more manageable schedule and more confidence-building level of competition.

Look at Cole Sillinger and some would argue his offensive development stalled because of the bottom-6 role he was thrust into as an 18 year-old. Cootes' ceiling may be the 3rd line, but hopefully he develops into something more with the added development time that wouldn't be afforded him in the NHL.

Still, it was encouraging seeing him and Lekk out there in pre-season and against the Flames. Maybe they become a thing, but regardless we haven't seen this kind of noise from prospects since Petey, Quinn and Hoglander came onto the scene. Then again, management hasn't kept many picks either. It's not all doom-and-gloom on the prospect front.

[Tciso]

so, are we finally done with the 'Bains on the second line' yet???

Yup. With Cootes down, and Sassons up, I see Bains on our AHL top line/NHL 4th line next game with Sassons and either Raty or Karlsson

[Madcombinepilot]

so, are we finally done with the 'Bains on the second line' yet???

Yup. With Cootes down, and Sassons up, I see Bains on our AHL top line/NHL 4th line next game with Sassons and either Raty or Karlsson

Fuck Bains. How much runway does a guy get to prove he is a bust?!? Trade him (if anyone will take him) for a reclamation project or a late pick. If there is no trades available, let someone have him off waivers.

[Cousin Strawberry]

Is Pettersson the new Patrik Laine? There seems to be some parallels there unfortunately. (early statistical success then his game falls off a cliff)

[MJN]

so, are we finally done with the 'Bains on the second line' yet???

Yup. With Cootes down, and Sassons up, I see Bains on our AHL top line/NHL 4th line next game with Sassons and either Raty or Karlsson

Fuck Bains. How much runway does a guy get to prove he is a bust?!? Trade him (if anyone will take him) for a reclamation project or a late pick. If there is no trades available, let someone have him off waivers.

Looking more like a marketing gimmick, exposing the forward depth for what it is.

[Megaterio Llamas]

so, are we finally done with the 'Bains on the second line' yet???

Yup. With Cootes down, and Sassons up, I see Bains on our AHL top line/NHL 4th line next game with Sassons and either Raty or Karlsson

Fuck Bains. How much runway does a guy get to prove he is a bust?!? Trade him (if anyone will take him) for a reclamation project or a late pick. If there is no trades available, let someone have him off waivers.

Looking more like a marketing gimmick, exposing the forward depth for what it is.

The Bains thing can't really be understood in simple hockey terms. It's a complicated situation.

[donlever]

The Bains thing can't really be understood in simple hockey terms. It's a complicated situation.

...could mismanagement of assets be construed as a hockey term?

[Megaterio Llamas]

The Bains thing can't really be understood in simple hockey terms. It's a complicated situation.

...could mismanagement of assets be construed as a hockey term?

It's either a term or a condition Donny.

[Madcombinepilot]

so, are we finally done with the 'Bains on the second line' yet???

Yup. With Cootes down, and Sassons up, I see Bains on our AHL top line/NHL 4th line next game with Sassons and either Raty or Karlsson

Fuck Bains. How much runway does a guy get to prove he is a bust?!? Trade him (if anyone will take him) for a reclamation project or a late pick. If there is no trades available, let someone have him off waivers.

Looking more like a marketing gimmick, exposing the forward depth for what it is.

The Bains thing can't really be understood in simple hockey terms. It's a complicated situation.

Megs, I respectfully disagree… I get he is liked by teammates, a great glue guy, etc… but his AHL skill set has not translated into NHL talent. That’s the bottom line.

For years (heck, generational waves here) we had guys who just could not get over the hump.. and this fan base/media has built them up and overhyped (and overvalued) them.

Holden and Druken.. (hell, It felt like Josh Holden was a rising AHL/Training camp standout for 6-8 years!)
Gaunce and Megma.. (Ugh. No more comments from me on them, look at my previous posts for years - felt like decades)
Cody Hodgeson.. list goes on.. I just don’t feel like typing it all out.


Bains is like Brandon Reid. Brandon had a killer shot. Heavy, had velocity, could pick his spot.. but had a slow release. At the NHL level, pro players got a stick on it, deflected it or blocked it because his release was too slow.,lt was a heck of a skill set, but it did not translate to the NHL level.

Bains is like that.

Great skill set, but it ain’t translating.

The sooner coaches get over the ‘intangibles’ and get down to numbers, the better it is for the team.

[Megaterio Llamas]

so, are we finally done with the 'Bains on the second line' yet???

Yup. With Cootes down, and Sassons up, I see Bains on our AHL top line/NHL 4th line next game with Sassons and either Raty or Karlsson

Fuck Bains. How much runway does a guy get to prove he is a bust?!? Trade him (if anyone will take him) for a reclamation project or a late pick. If there is no trades available, let someone have him off waivers.

Looking more like a marketing gimmick, exposing the forward depth for what it is.

The Bains thing can't really be understood in simple hockey terms. It's a complicated situation.

Megs, I respectfully disagree… I get he is liked by teammates, a great glue guy, etc… but his AHL skill set has not translated into NHL talent. That’s the bottom line.

For years (heck, generational waves here) we had guys who just could not get over the hump.. and this fan base/media has built them up and overhyped (and overvalued) them.

Holden and Druken.. (hell, It felt like Josh Holden was a rising AHL/Training camp standout for 6-8 years!)
Gaunce and Megma.. (Ugh. No more comments from me on them, look at my previous posts for years - felt like decades)
Cody Hodgeson.. list goes on.. I just don’t feel like typing it all out.


Bains is like Brandon Reid. Brandon had a killer shot. Heavy, had velocity, could pick his spot.. but had a slow release. At the NHL level, pro players got a stick on it, deflected it or blocked it because his release was too slow.,lt was a heck of a skill set, but it did not translate to the NHL level.

Bains is like that.

Great skill set, but it ain’t translating.

The sooner coaches get over the ‘intangibles’ and get down to numbers, the better it is for the team.

Brandon Reid puts this in its proper historical Canucks context and it really helps me understand it better. It's coming into focus for me now. Thanks MCP.

Another example could be Dan Hodgson, or even better, Steve Kariya. As a lesser sibling, he really touches all the bases

[Tciso]

I tend to agree about Bains. But he's a symptom. We only have 12 NHL caliber forwards, including Raty and Lekkerimaki. Bains, Aman, Karlsson, Sassons, etc are all AHLers. And it shows. Cootes and Kratsov too.

Now, with 2 injuries, we are backfilling with AHLers. And none of them are over a buck eighty. Bains does need to go. But, we also should not be putting AHLers on the 2nd line, especially if they have no 2nd line skills.

Karlsson n Sassons are hopefully upgrades on Bains. And, maybe Kratsov figures it out.

I guess all I am trying to say is have patience, and gawd, I miss PDG as our 14th forward.
.

[UWSaint]

so, are we finally done with the 'Bains on the second line' yet???

Yup. With Cootes down, and Sassons up, I see Bains on our AHL top line/NHL 4th line next game with Sassons and either Raty or Karlsson

Fuck Bains. How much runway does a guy get to prove he is a bust?!? Trade him (if anyone will take him) for a reclamation project or a late pick. If there is no trades available, let someone have him off waivers.

Looking more like a marketing gimmick, exposing the forward depth for what it is.

The Bains thing can't really be understood in simple hockey terms. It's a complicated situation.

Megs, I respectfully disagree… I get he is liked by teammates, a great glue guy, etc… but his AHL skill set has not translated into NHL talent. That’s the bottom line.

For years (heck, generational waves here) we had guys who just could not get over the hump.. and this fan base/media has built them up and overhyped (and overvalued) them.

Holden and Druken.. (hell, It felt like Josh Holden was a rising AHL/Training camp standout for 6-8 years!)
Gaunce and Megma.. (Ugh. No more comments from me on them, look at my previous posts for years - felt like decades)
Cody Hodgeson.. list goes on.. I just don’t feel like typing it all out.


Bains is like Brandon Reid. Brandon had a killer shot. Heavy, had velocity, could pick his spot.. but had a slow release. At the NHL level, pro players got a stick on it, deflected it or blocked it because his release was too slow.,lt was a heck of a skill set, but it did not translate to the NHL level.

Bains is like that.

Great skill set, but it ain’t translating.

The sooner coaches get over the ‘intangibles’ and get down to numbers, the better it is for the team.

I agree with what I've bolded -- the issue for Bains is how his skills translate from the AHL to the NHL. (The other players listed, some had the same problem, others had different issues (Druken couldn't play defense and IIRC was reputed to have some off ice issues, Hodgson also couldn't play defense but without the condition probably would have managed a decent career as a top 6 player on a nonplayoff team)).

The thing about the AHL is that the best players on the other team aren't NHL players. At *worst* a player is going against a 6-8 caliber defensemen on the depth chart, but you also are spending a fair amount of time against guys even further down the depth chart. The highest caliber defense you might see in the AHL is the same as the lowest caliber you might see in the NHL -- and the forwards in the NHL are by and large significantly better defensively than the typical AHL player.

So how much is one's offense the product of going against weaker competition? It *isn't* the same equation for every player. For example, I think Bains needs a little more time to do the things that I saw him do in the Abby games I saw. If the time is not there, there is no play. Bains is a step slow with the feet, doesn't read the game at NHL speed (can't make up for footspeed by superior anticipation), and his good hands are when he has full possession but not before -- which means that with less time he's rarely in full possession with time to make a play. And yet Bains is a top 6 profile player, so if he's not contributing offensively, its hard to see the value. (I like that they've tried him killing penalties. Its something).

Compare that to a player like Sushi. I am not predicting a big season because I don't know that he's ready because of the non-NHL ready aspects of his game (mostly related to strength on the puck and in defensive zone), but the skill set that works in the AHL (off puck quick release; finding soft spots) will work in the NHL if he has linemates that drive the play.

Then there are guys like Karlsson. He's a major scorer in the AHL. That's not going to happen in the NHL, because his size will be less of a comparative advantage and his lack of footspeed will catch up to him. BUT his work in the corners, his ability to be a pest, his willingness to take lumber in dirty spaces, his hand eye when it comes to tips -- this means (to me) he has a skill set that could very well translate into an NHL role. Not as a regular top 6 player, but as a pest and net front presence on the PP.

Even Sasson -- who is not as skilled as Bains and is not as good of an AHL player as Bains -- has a better shot at providing NHL value because he brings NHL+ level skating to the table. His play will be less diminished by the speed differential because he can create more time than Bains. The things that hold him back in the AHL will obviously hold him back in the NHL, but having this differential advantage allows him to do the things he does well at both levels.

And maybe that's the biggest issue with Bains. He has no differential advantage skill that can be used at the NHL. His decent skills are downstream from time, and time is something he hasn't been able to make.

[Lancer]

I'm relatively comfortable with the tweeners that are still up - as long as they inhabit the bottom six of the forward roster. If we need to put a 4th line of Sasson-Karlsson-Bains out there to give the other forwards a breather while taking the body and not cratering in possession, it's hardly ideal but can work.

When they start appearing alongside Chytil and Garland, we have problems. I can understand Foote putting Bains up there as a placeholder for Hoglander, and none of the forwards have covered themselves in glory the last couple of games, but Bains hasn't done anything to justify the move. Not sure Karlsson or anyone else from Abby would do better - and that's a problem.

To modify a Torts quote: If Bains is in the top-6, that's great for Bains; that's not so great for the organization.

[Tciso]

Is Pettersson the new Patrik Laine? There seems to be some parallels there unfortunately. (early statistical success then his game falls off a cliff)

I dunno. But, Craig Button sees him as a buyout candidate next season. I see Button as an idiot. I could see a trade, but a buyout is cap and financial suicide for the organization.

[donlever]

Clown show.