Canucks News N Notes 25-26

[5thhorseman]

Why so desperate to obtain a 4th? One would think he'd be worth more to us as Demko-insurance.

[Chef Boi RD]

I’m assuming it’s because he doesn’t project well as an NHL pro, if so, they would’ve kept him, or we would’ve received a better return. His fundamentals may not translate at the pro level. The market (the return) tells you everything about his worth, what the pro scouting world thinks of him. Vancouver’s fans and media are overvaluing him.

[Cousin Strawberry]

Even his supposed coming out party was more or less a disappointment.

[Tciso]

Chase Stillman - maybe we have a reclamation project of a former 1st round pick? (that's about all we can hope for).

His brother was nicknamed stillborn. Hopefully Chase makes a better impact.

[Hockey Widow]

If the Canucks had confidence that Silovs would be a good NHL goalie they would have found a way to keep him. They would have unloaded Lankinen before his NTC kicked in or would have traded Demko rather than extend him. They also know they have organizational depth in goal. They did Silovs a solid by giving him an opportunity to make an NHL club next season.

The return sucks but it is market value. Anyone who had dreams of much higher were just that, dreamers.

If Demko, or Lankinen for that matter, suffer a long term injury Silovs was not going to be our saviour. Now he may carve out a nice career for himself. Be happy for him if he does. But it wasn't going to be here.

[UWSaint]

An established backup is worth a third rounder. Silovs is not an established backup. He’s a good, not sure thing prospect who might never be an nhl goalie, might be a backup level, might be a starter.

A Pittsburgh 2027 4th is likely to be towards the beginning of the round. Add in a still-waiver-exempt former first rounder, albeit one who has disappointed since the draft, and the value here is equivalent to a typical third.

Given Silovs’ waiver status, It’s a return indicating more than one team was interested, but not to a bidding war level. The Canucks clearly decided that this return was tentative (if a similar goalie or two was moved, there may be a market of one. And given the Canucks were selling Silovs when it was transparent they had to move him, it isn’t a bad return from the Canucks perspective. The problem is, of course, that the Canucks put themselves in this position where they couldn’t out wait a reasonable offer for a better one. I mean, they didn’t have to move now, but they were going to have to move before the season. Looking at it from the Canucks perspective, it is a good return for an asset with zero value to the organization. Looking at it from the Pens perspective, it is a great return for a team loaded with picks. A 25% chance at being a starter next season? A 80% of being better than what they would have had as a #2, but still retaining a chance of being a future starter? For a team in Pittsburgh’s position, perfect.

Three more points. (1) Before Jakob Markstrom was the Canucks starter, he was waived. He passed waivers—at the time, Markstrom was seen as a better prospect than Silovs today but hadn’t nearly the same accomplishments. (2) The no leverage situation was created by a terrible overpayment to a decent backup goalie. I’ve written about why before and won’t repeat it, except to say I’d much rather have Silovs and another $3.5M or so in cap than a 4th, Lankinen, and Stillman. (3) While carrying three to preserve leverage was an option in theory, the Canucks just barely paid guys too much to be able to do that with a 23 man roster. And while they probably will move on from some salary before the season starts, the Pens offer was reasonable enough that the other reasons for opening cap space would outweigh the leverage benefit, because how much better would you do? I said the top end of the Silovs market would be a pick and a B prospect (and was thinking a third). They got a high 4th and a C prospect.

[Picker of Cherries]

Or, more likely, it turns out management made a mistake.
It may turn out that Demko won’t stay healthy, the Canucks miss the playoffs by a couple points and the kid is solid in Pittsburg.
Even if Silovs never becomes a starter, the Canucks could have carried three goalies, held on to their current third best goalie as insurance and gotten a similar return at a later point this season.
Since the return was only a 4th in two years and a player who is trending toward being a bust, it does nothing to help the club this season, so why rush the trade?
Silovs was certainly clutch internationally and in Abby.
Great in tight and still very young for a goalie who was working on his tracking and distance game.
If he fixed that, which he looked much better at during the Abby playoff run, he could become a starter with a history of rising to the occasion.
It’s a mistake right now for rushing the trade for what is a presently unhelpful return and disregarding the benefit of having Demko insurance.
At minimum, Silovs should have been carried as a third goalie until he could be part of a package to bring a current NHL player in return, and Demko had shown he could stay healthy for 20 games.
Since it is presently an unhelpful return, the trade is a mistake right now, and we’ll see how big a mistake this trade becomes later if Silov’s actually turns out to be a cheap solid backup or a starter. It’s not like the Canucks couldn’t have used Lankinen’s or Demko’s salary to pay a 2C if he does.

[Cornuck]

Both UW's and Cherry's posts are valid, and we are stuck having to trust that management knows what it's doing.

They have gone all-in on Demko being healthy and EP40 returning to form. They have a LOT more insider information about these two players and since I can't do anything about it, I'm going to trust that they've made the right choices.

I assume they're monitoring EP40's off-season very carefully.
I assume they've talked to Demko extensively about how he's feeling (and I feel like Demko would tell them if he was still having problems).

The upcoming season will either be all on management for better or worse.

[Megaterio Llamas]

A lot is riding on a very delicate popliteus.

Too much, really..

[Picker of Cherries]

Not any more worried about his popliteus than any other part of his Sami Salo cloned body.

[rikster]

Guess its a good trade when both teams have unhappy fans ...

For Pittsburg it seems that there is confusion which is understandable when you consider they have a younger goalie in their system who was taken in the 2nd round and who has put up better AHL regular season and NHL stats than Silvos...

I think for some time management has dropped hints that they don't have a high upside opinion on Silvos and my assumption is that it is very much Ian Clark and their goalie coaches based...

Demko to Young to Medvedev is the progression they seem to be sold on....

As for the worry about Demko being hurt long term again, not sure why that would influence their decision to hang onto or trade Silvos if they don't trust him in an NHL net, especially when they have Tolopilo and Patera in Abby post the trade?...

Koskenvuo who had a good college career with Harvard has been signed and will be playing in the Nucks system ...

When you look at the depth throughout the system at the goaltending position, is there a more valuable person in managment than Ian Clark?

Pretty remarkable how well he has set up the progression of goalies for years to come...

And with that there will be some very good goalies who need to be dealt because of a backlog of good goalies in the system as with the Silvos trade...

As for the trade, as someone posted with Pittsburg expected to be a lottery team when the Canucks select the pick aquired from them so it can be considered a late 3rd rounder ...

Based on the stats, not sure what Jersey saw in Stillman to pick him in the first round but from reports he is big and can skate so should fit into the Selke type team the Nucks seem to be building...

Take care...

[Lancer]

Not any more worried about his popliteus than any other part of his Sami Salo cloned body.

Just keep him away from Scandinavian golf courses and floor all at least.

[UWSaint]

... For Pittsburg it seems that there is confusion which is understandable when you consider they have a younger goalie in their system who was taken in the 2nd round and who has put up better AHL regular season and NHL stats than Silvos...

...

Based on the stats, not sure what Jersey saw in Stillman to pick him in the first round but from reports he is big and can skate so should fit into the Selke type team the Nucks seem to be building...

Take care...

I don't get the confusion in Pittsburgh. Blomqvist didn't put up better numbers in the AHL, you know, those playoff games count (and sort of count more given the quality of competition). Moreover, Blomqvist (like Silovs) wasn't good in the NHL last year, and most importantly, he's waiver exempt. He needs another year in the AHL -- he was a good AHL goalie, but he didn't dominate the league. And after this season, all it creates is competition in the system for a post-Jarry starter or part of a tandem.

I have no clue about Stillman as someone that could plug into a bottom 6 someday, but if that's true that he plays with size and responsibility, then maybe he's a B- prospect instead of a C prospect based on having a path to the NHL based on that.

When Miller was traded, people focused on Chytl and the 1st because we all knew Chytl and most understand the value of a first. But Mancini was always a material piece to the deal, and while I am not saying Stillman is a prospect like Mancini, (and Silovs is not an asset like Miller...) I don't think Stillman is only a throw in. He's part of the return with a limited but more than zero chance of playing NHL games in the future.

[Chef Boi RD]

From listening to the “pro’s” lately when it comes to the scouting reports on AHL goalies, it seems that the goalies in question the AHL stats associated with them are not high on the list of priorities that form the gyst of the scouts scouting report on AHL goalies which is mainly due to playing against lesser talent and just the overall scrambly play of the minors where athleticism seems to reign supreme. You always here “fundamentals” first and foremost when it comes to their thoughts on goalies on the farm and it seems the scouts in general ain’t blown away by Silovs when it comes to“fundamentals”.

[theman]

All things considered, I think it is a decent return for Silovs. It was a gamble to trade him now but it would have been a gamble to hold on to him until training camp as well.