Canucks News N Notes 24-25

[Strangelove]

Tocchet... has something against these Russians.

It feels that way.

Clarke.

Yeah, maybe some of Clarkie rubbed off on him in Philly.

[Megaterio Llamas]

.
He's dynamite down in Abby though, but he'd back in Russia after another year of that.

Yeah he always looked disinterested when I saw him play in Abby.

Yeah he definitely lost some of his mojo after he was dunked on his dome but just before that he was really dominant on the ice.

There is the possibility he can recapture that but it just didn't look like it was ever going to happen here.

[Carl Yagro]

I mean, it is what it is. This regime has no time for this player even though it was clearly evident that his big body and dogged pursuit on the forecheck, that type of big boy physicality that him and Miller provided in the postseason... even more of that was/is necessary.

We all saw how ineffective guys like PDG, Hogs, Lafferty, etc were when EP was a shell of himself. No offence, no playoff grit. I really thought we would get past the Oil into the 3rd round even with the then SevenThreeFiddy flailing away. Sprong is Tocchet's pet project now? Uh, ok.

But seriously, if the previous regime turned their own 1st rounder into a 4th rounder, I wonder how the fans would react? Well, I actually have a pretty good idea of that.

[Cornuck]

The numbers game sucks. Pod had some upside, and might still pull off a career. It seems we helped edm fix som cap issue / lineup issues and surprising that we couldn't get more from anyone else.

[Hockey Widow]

Well we were at 49/50 contracts before this move and he would likely have been waived with a real risk at 1 million he would be snatched in waivers. So we get a high 4th for that I guess. We now have two contract spots open. Not sure it gives us more cap though if we plan to go with a 23 man roster. We will still be up against the cap.

We had a log jam to clear out and he was the odd man out.

Still a head scratcher though. We give him to the Oilers which is the real head scratcher. Good grief there must have been other teams that would have paid that. I just don’t get the urgency. I was hoping he’d show up and have a good camp. I remember not that long ago where Miller was singing his praises and saying he loved having the kid on his line.

But I guess in sprong we get more goal scoring so there is that although I don’t see Sprong as a bottom 6 defensive player. It has to be the Russian factor. I wonder if they dislike Belarusian players as well?

[Topper]

Timing? As UW and I along with others noted, someone was going to be waived and likely claimed. Of the opportunity arose to get an asset back, even a low of crap shoot 4th, take it.

[Blob Mckenzie]

I mean, it is what it is. This regime has no time for this player even though it was clearly evident that his big body and dogged pursuit on the forecheck, that type of big boy physicality that him and Miller provided in the postseason... even more of that was/is necessary.

We all saw how ineffective guys like PDG, Hogs, Lafferty, etc were when EP was a shell of himself. No offence, no playoff grit. I really thought we would get past the Oil into the 3rd round even with the then SevenThreeFiddy flailing away. Sprong is Tocchet's pet project now? Uh, ok.

But seriously, if the previous regime turned their own 1st rounder into a 4th rounder, I wonder how the fans would react? Well, I actually have a pretty good idea of that.

lol Podkolzin was as physical as PDG and about as effective. This is a terrible result for a top 10 pick. He bumped a few guys but he was not a physical force. He hasn't produced offense at any level.

The previous regime made a piss poor pick drafting this player at 10. What do you think he was worth based on his play and production?


And to the prospector from Rock Creek; trading Hoglander for a 4th round pick would not be a good idea. He's worth more a fair bit more than that.

[Madcombinepilot]

What was the rush on this? Maybe if it was more value than he's worth like a 2RP you figure you have to move on it but a 4th barely moves the needle. And with Edmonton situation how are we getting "fair value" on any trade and not fleecing them?

What if one of these new acquisitions doesn't pan out? It's great to hear Sprong say he's excited to learn how to play in his own end for like his 4th team but there's no guarantee that's going to pan out.

Why not let Podz have training camp to force a move?
It's a low end move but still seems like a head scratcher to me

The only thing I can see, is I figure coaching must not be happy about his off ice training this offseason, or sees/seen something we have not. Otherwise I agree, we could have kelt him through training camp and seen if he progressed.. power forwards develop late. The timing of this is questionable. Management is not shy to make trades during camp (Pearson), so I am surprised they didn’t keep him to see how he progressed over the summer.

..And we were NOT going to lose anyone to waivers as Friedman and PDG would have both cleared, and even if we lost one of them, no biggie.


But in the end, fuck the oilers.

[Blob Mckenzie]

He as not a power forward whatsoever and there is no evidence power forwards take any more time than any other skater to develop.

[Meds]

Just watch, he will line up with McDavid and Hyman and be a 30G/65P player. Then everyone will lose their shit while refusing to acknowledge that he has not improved is just the beneficiary of McDavid’s otherworldly ability.

[UWSaint]

And we were NOT going to lose anyone to waivers as Friedman and PDG would have both cleared, and even if we lost one of them, no biggie.

It isn't about Friedman or PDG. Its not about whether they'd be lost to waivers (who cares), it is that they couldn't both be sent through waivers if the Canucks were to ice 23 and be under the cap if Podz is there without using LTIR. They don't want to use LTIR when the season opens, and until they figure out the center depth issue (such as seeing whether Sherwood can play center or acquiring someone cheap off waivers after camp), waiving and potentially losing Aman is an avoidable and unacceptable risk.

One can fairly question the wisdom of the signing three bottom 6 wingers (Sprong, Sherwood, and Heinen) while having an internal candidate like Podkolzin with some potential that may or may not ever come to be. One can fairly question giving Joshua real money instead of having Sherwood and Podkolzin compete for that role. But once all the moves were made, there was almost no question the Canucks were going to (and should) either move someone or backtrack (backtracking meaning abandon the idea of starting the season w/o LTIR or undoing Sprong by waiving him). If not Podkolzin, then it would have been a better player for a greater return.

As for timing, let's play it out. It isn't clear to me why the Oilers had any increased pressure to make a deal to acquire Podkolzin now as compared to after the offer sheet period expires. They could make the move anytime -- it wasn't making the math easier to add salary. They absolutely had pressure to move Ceci, sure, and they added a third and picked up a tweener a-dozen-similar-players-will-be-waived defenseman to make it happen.

But there *would* be pressure on the Canucks to make a move as camp winds down and the alternative is waivers. More potential buyers hold their cards at this time -- they know there's a lot of free goods about to be offered, and some of the would-be buyers discover an internal asset they had underappreciated. *Most* players that are picked off on waivers *would* have a minimal (late round) return if the move is made at the right time. Put differently, it isn't that each player snagged is *exactly* the value of their contract and a spot on the NHL roster. But teams wait when they've got options, and move when the have a need--like when the buyer has a spate of injuries (here, I suppose, there is a little optics salve given Holloway or Broberg is still moving (IMO, and IMO, I think its Holloway).

But it doesn't have to be a dramatic situation to make a buyer see more value now than in 6 weeks. A 23 yo former first rounder getting a second chance that starts with training camp is simply more valuable to the buyer than the same player picked up off waivers right as the season starts.

Ay the end of the day, I am pretty sure that Allvin (with Rutherford and Tochett's input) played things out and were of the opinion there was a high likelihood Podkolzin wasn't making the roster. So they moved while there was a buyer's market.

[Madcombinepilot]

He as not a power forward whatsoever and there is no evidence power forwards take any more time than any other skater to develop.

Blob, I am not sure if your serious with this statement or simply have the summer boredoms and are stirring the shit pot.

[Topper]

He as not a power forward whatsoever and there is no evidence power forwards take any more time than any other skater to develop.

Blob, I am not sure if your serious with this statement or simply have the summer boredoms and are stirring the shit pot.

Which is why I always questioned Ricky's penchant for making Pod a power forward.

[Madcombinepilot]

And we were NOT going to lose anyone to waivers as Friedman and PDG would have both cleared, and even if we lost one of them, no biggie.

It isn't about Friedman or PDG. Its not about whether they'd be lost to waivers (who cares), it is that they couldn't both be sent through waivers if the Canucks were to ice 23 and be under the cap if Podz is there without using LTIR. They don't want to use LTIR when the season opens, and until they figure out the center depth issue (such as seeing whether Sherwood can play center or acquiring someone cheap off waivers after camp), waiving and potentially losing Aman is an avoidable and unacceptable risk.

I didn't realize that we were still 35k over the cap with Podz here. Call it a rounding error on my part while adding cap. With all the guys they signed over the summer, to be over about 35,000 is simply a management mistake in handling cap. They should have arranged the world to have Podz here for training camp. I understand they want to accumulate cap space during the year, and not dip into LTIR, but they could have done both with better planning.

One can fairly question the wisdom of the signing three bottom 6 wingers (Sprong, Sherwood, and Heinen) while having an internal candidate like Podkolzin with some potential that may or may not ever come to be. One can fairly question giving Joshua real money instead of having Sherwood and Podkolzin compete for that role. But once all the moves were made, there was almost no question the Canucks were going to (and should) either move someone or backtrack (backtracking meaning abandon the idea of starting the season w/o LTIR or undoing Sprong by waiving him). If not Podkolzin, then it would have been a better player for a greater return.

One of these guys should be paid 40k less. When they signed Podz before free agency, someone should have been doing the math. No waivers should have been required.

As for timing, let's play it out. It isn't clear to me why the Oilers had any increased pressure to make a deal to acquire Podkolzin now as compared to after the offer sheet period expires. They could make the move anytime -- it wasn't making the math easier to add salary. They absolutely had pressure to move Ceci, sure, and they added a third and picked up a tweener a-dozen-similar-players-will-be-waived defenseman to make it happen.

Other than hating the oilers, I couldn't care less what made them make the trade. They obviously see a value (right or wrong) for the player. that's on them. My point was the timing of it all. It could have been avoided and we could have let it play out. Waivers should never have been an option.

Its a small mistake on the part of management that forced them to make an unnecessary move, and potentially get a lesser return. Nothing dramatic about it, it is what it is.

Ay the end of the day, I am pretty sure that Allvin (with Rutherford and Tochett's input) played things out and were of the opinion there was a high likelihood Podkolzin wasn't making the roster. So they moved while there was a buyer's market.

Could be what I was alluding to with his offseason regime. Who knows what is happening behind the scenes.

[Blob Mckenzie]

He as not a power forward whatsoever and there is no evidence power forwards take any more time than any other skater to develop.

Blob, I am not sure if your serious with this statement or simply have the summer boredoms and are stirring the shit pot.

Which is why I always questioned Ricky's penchant for making Pod a power forward.

There is no evidence of Tocchet trying to make him into a power forward. He has ham hands and tunnel vision.