2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver

[Diehard1]

Jimbo is allergic to trading players for picks, he loves his reclamation projects (Baertschi, Pouliot, Etem, Vey, Pedan, Larsen, etc.) and he loves trading picks to get them. Pick for Baertschi (I'd trade Sven for Andersson any day of the week now), a pick and player for Pouliot (oops), pick and player for Etem (oops), pick for Vey (oops), pick and player for Pedan (oops), pick for Larsen (oops) - notice a pattern? I'm sure I missed a few in there as well, but the fact is Jimbo loves trading picks for players.

Fact is, Jimbo has made exactly 1 trade in his 5 years with the team where he got a pick straight up for a player - Bieksa in 2015. That's a long time ago and it sure seems like his strategy has changed since then.

Again, happy to be proven wrong but given past history it's unlikely.

Were you not one of the guys posting about how it was wrong to let Grabner and McCann go? (I could be wrong, just asking). Was not The other GM's hoping to catch lightning in a bottle with them? When a player doesn't work out for one team (for whatever reason: personality or system clash, maturity level -some guys don't grow up until they are traded a couple times- personal, coaching, or staff issue.. whatever) and that player isn't living up to the current teams expectations, the player is moved and labeled a reclamation project. Nothing wrong with that. Jimbro needed to fill the roster with younger guys, and reclamation projects are the way to do it. Sometimes they work out, sometimes not. Just like drafting.
I don't mind when a GM spends picks on these guys so long as it fills the situational need. This team was handcuffed with contracts, and JB moved as many as he could each season, while refilling the farm as fast as he could. Did they all work out? Nope. They never will.
What I liked about him filling an immediate need and spending the picks to do it, is he recaptured those lost picks in a non traditional fashion -- NCAA non drafted kids and overseas signings. Some teams sign 1 or 2 guys every 3 or 4 years, JB has made a habit of grabbing up non drafted guys (seems like 1-2 a year) to replace those picks, has done fairly well doing it, And never gets credit for it. These unsigned kids are not all going to make it to the show either, but an unsigned kid is the same as another 2nd-5th round pick in my books. When you have an eye for young talent like JB does, Same chance of working out.

I am a lot less worried about 'lost picks' than others, I guess

I honestly can’t remember what I said about Grabner, but I would say I was cautiously optimistic about the Guddy trade. I was quite wrong, that may have been a top 5 worst trade of all time Canucks trades. Awful player, though Benning seems to have redeemed himself a bit with Pearson.

Agreed regarding the signings, it’s not a bad way to replenish some assets but it’s very difficult to find top end talent. Tanev is about the best you can hope for and those are few and far between. I like signing guys like Zack Macewen and perhaps Mitch Eliot turns into something, so Jimbo has been decent in this regard. It’s a different point to mine but I see where you’re coming from.

As for the reason I want more picks - it’s by far the best way to get talent and we need much, much more of it. This team is not close, this farm system still needs lots of help and more picks is the best way to do it, especially given drafting has been this management team’s best attribute.

As for contracts Jimbo inherited - he’s done a decent job getting rid of them, only to put them in a worse situation overall in this respect. The Loui, Spooner, Sutter, Beagle, Schaller and perhaps Baertschi (subject to health) deals represent over $20 million in cap space for guys that are either past it or never really had it. Those deals are the difference between being a playoff team and being back in the lottery year after year. Put another way, if this team had 4-5 guys who were solid contributors taking up that money they are likely getting ready for round 1 right now. This IMHO is the biggest weakness of Jimbo’s regime and where he needs the most help.

[Diehard1]

. It’s his biggest downfall as a GM IMHO, his lack of creativity in understanding how to build a team.

Yet here we are...a stable full of up and coming stars with plenty more developing in the wings.

Thats pretty well the textbook definition of a rebuilding team dude.

We have Petey, Hughes, Bo, Demko and Brock - no argument they are up and coming young stars. Who is the next one? Lind? Really bad year. Same. Dahlen? Traded for a downgrade. Juolevi? Just missed a whole season, can’t rely on him yet though I’m still hopeful. Woo? At least 2 years away, more likely 3. MacEwen? Might be a 3rd liner if everything goes well. Who are these ‘plenty more developing in the wings’ you’re referring to?

I get the narrative, we have this great farm system and lots coming, but reality is it’s just not there, at least not yet. This year’s draft can add more talent but the point is more picks are needed.

[Chef Boi RD]

I get the sense that Jim likes players he liked when he was a scout, Pro and Amateur, a long time ago, love is blind in a sport that is constantly evolving.

[Diehard1]

These unsigned kids are not all going to make it to the show either, but an unsigned kid is the same as another 2nd-5th round pick in my books. When you have an eye for young talent like JB does, Same chance of working out.

I am a lot less worried about 'lost picks' than others, I guess

I would agree that JB should be given credit for signing undrafted guys for sure. I strongly disagree that they have the same chance of turning out as any 2nd-5th round pick (even "when you have an eye for [young developing] talent like JB does").

That's like saying one has the same chance of mining gold from tailings as from an ore body (Topper can correct me on the terminology usage in my metaphor). Finding a player that will 1) make the bigs and 2) be an impact player is much easier to do from a body of players that have not yet been picked over by the league than it is from a body of leftovers.

Even JB has indicated that picks are "like gold", which apparently explains why he has been unable to average any more than the allotted number of picks over the last 5 years [we will see if he can manage to hold onto the couple extras he has this year until draft day].

Not all picks are the same, and as frustrated as some are for Benning not acquiring more picks I get as frustrated that some think a late round pick is better than a player who can slot into the lineup today and play for a team which was bankrupt of talent and hope...

The team needs more elite players in it's lineup, and those players will not come from mid to late round draft picks...

They won't.....

Mid to late round picks take longer to develop and only the needle in the haystack picks ever see the NHL, let alone have a productive NHL career...

More realistically their upside is hoped to be as a productive minor leaguer....

If you total the draft positions of the teams current core group of players it totals 44 or an average of the 11th pick overall...

Horvat at 9

Pettersson at 5

Boeser at 23

Hughes at 7

Even our goaltending tandem were taken very early in the second rounds;

Markstrom at 31

Demko at 36


If you look at the second tier;

Virtanen at 6

Pearson at 30

Baertschi at 13

Gaudette at 149

Stecher undrafted

I'm not in the camp that the team needs to make the playoffs next year, I'd be just as happy if the team drafts in the lottery position the next 2 drafts ....

I think the team needs at least another 2 first tier core players, afterwards it should be ready talent wise and age wise to move into Cup contender status...

Take care...

Hey Rikster - I agree that higher picks are undoubtedly the way to go, which is why I always advocate trading guys who aren’t coming back or perhaps aren’t needed should be traded for 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounders. Hamhuis, Tanev, Edler are guys who come to mind that could have been flipped for high picks to achieve this. Yes there are more, those are just off the top of my head.

I also agree we probably need another 2 solid drafts to have enough talent to have a long term competitor. I don’t mind being patient as long as we see progress, and this year was good progress for the young core and questionable progress for most of the rest of the young guys.

[Diehard1]

I get the sense that Jim likes players he liked when he was a scout, Pro and Amateur, a long time ago, love is blind in a sport that is constantly evolving.

Hey Dude - predictions on who we draft? Assuming it’s in the 9/10 slot that is.

My guess is we get to choose between Zegras and Dach. I’m leaning Zegras but would be very happy with either, as both skill sets are good fits on this team.

[Chef Boi RD]

I believe who we draft with the first pick will set the tone of the type of trades Jim will be making. The left side D will be an area of trade activity if we draft LHD Broberg. With LHD Juolevi pretty much guaranteed to make the team next year, if Edler returns then Hutton may be traded. If we draft RHD Soderstrom then Tanev will be traded for a Kapanen (I like ghus scenario), Woo is a RHD. Yes Woo and Soderstrom aren’t quite ready but maybe Jim plugs in placement holders until then.

We draft a forward like Krebs or Boldy I anticipate a possible Virtanen trade for s RHD like Fabbro (not sure what to make of trading Jake now, can’t say I’m a huge fan of it)

Please get rid of Sutter, Jim. Gaudette is here to stay! Get rid of Spooner, Granlund, Pouliot and Schaller and promote McKewen!

[Chef Boi RD]

I get the sense that Jim likes players he liked when he was a scout, Pro and Amateur, a long time ago, love is blind in a sport that is constantly evolving.

Hey Dude - predictions on who we draft? Assuming it’s in the 9/10 slot that is.

My guess is we get to choose between Zegras and Dach. I’m leaning Zegras but would be very happy with either, as both skill sets are good fits on this team.

I got a feeling the Canuck scouts like one of the two Swede defensemen. If a forward? I believe we are picking from Zegras, Krebs, Boldy. I think Dach and Turcotte will be gone but maybe one of them as well. For sure gone - Hughes, Kakko, Podkozlin, Byram and Cozens. After those 5 are gone there are 3 picks before ours. I believe Turcotte and Dach will be one of those 3 picks. So yeah we are picking from Zegras, Boldy, Krebs and the 2 Swedes

[Mickey107]

Have played this thing over 40 times, my son more than that;

https://www.nhlnumbers.com/nhl-draft-lottery-simulator

By far the most common outcome is nine. Then 8, 10, 7. Then, for whatever reason, one.
Not much in between 1 and 7.

[Blob Mckenzie]

Mickey, it’s a 5 % chance to pick 1st. And it’s a 16 % chance to pick top 3. You’re right though the most likely scenario is they stay right where they are at 9. Pick the best player available ( he will be a forward) if you stay at 9. I hope to fuck they don’t reach for one of the Swedish D men who are not ranked in the consensus top 10 anywhere and should be mid round 1sts. If they luck out and get 2 or 3 pick Kakko or Byram. They have had a lot of scouts and Elmer himself at a lot of Giants games recently.

[Hockey Widow]

Hey Rikster - I agree that higher picks are undoubtedly the way to go, which is why I always advocate trading guys who aren’t coming back or perhaps aren’t needed should be traded for 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounders. Hamhuis, Tanev, Edler are guys who come to mind that could have been flipped for high picks to achieve this. Yes there are more, those are just off the top of my head.

I also agree we probably need another 2 solid drafts to have enough talent to have a long term competitor. I don’t mind being patient as long as we see progress, and this year was good progress for the young core and questionable progress for most of the rest of the young guys.

Can you remind me again how exactly did Benning screw this up. My memory is bad. I keep remembering NMC, NTC or something along those lines.

[Mickey107]

Mickey, it’s a 5 % chance to pick 1st. And it’s a 16 % chance to pick top 3. You’re right though the most likely scenario is they stay right where they are at 9. Pick the best player available ( he will be a forward) if you stay at 9. I hope to fuck they don’t reach for one of the Swedish D men who are not ranked in the consensus top 10 anywhere and should be mid round 1sts. If they luck out and get 2 or 3 pick Kakko or Byram. They have had a lot of scouts and Elmer himself at a lot of Giants games recently.

Pretty hard to blend into the crowd in Langley. Kid doesn't turn 18 till June. Unreal.

[Blob Mckenzie]

Not going to answer for Diehard, but I’ll give you my opinion on those three players situations.

Hamhuis was injured but came back to play three weeks before the deadline. He should been asked immediately when he came back about waving his ntc. Instead they dithered and farted around until the last minute and ended up having to keep him. I’m sure some of the mouth breathers on here will say but he was playing poorly blah blah blah. He had an excellent track record or great play before that half season and horrible injury, so that excuse holds no water at all. He was twice the player Kris Russel ever was. It was a fuck up by management plain and simple.

Edler was approached and didn’t want to waive. Not too much Elmer could do there. He could have applied pressure but I’m not sure that would have been a smart thing to do.

Tanev should have been dangled for the last two to three years. The team is a garbage fire with or without him. Trade him now for scraps for all I care. He’s always hurt so his value is the worst it’s been in six years. He should have been moved a few years ago. He only has a modified ntc

[2Fingers]

Draft a forward, we should be able to land a top 6 forward with the 9th pick. Our D is in better shape than our top 6 forward group, especially with Juolevi on the way plus Woo. But something tells me we are drafting one of Soderstrom or Broberg. If that’s the case the top 6 will have to be fixed by trade or signing and I don’t have a ton of faith in Jim in that department.

RD - I am not sure how you can say the D is in better shape than the forwards. The Canucks have 1 D man that will make a difference on this team in 3 - 4 seasons from now which is when the team will be making a real push for the SC (not playoffs). Tanev is always hurt, Edler is Edler and will be retired in 3 - 4 years. Stetecher is a bottom pairing player, same as Scheen.

Julio has a lot to prove next season but regardless of what people want to make so far he is trending to be 2nd pairing or 3rd pairing. Woo has not played a game in the AHL or NHL so do note pencil him in yet.

It is always easier to find a forward that can get 40+ points in FA than it is to get a top pairing d man.

[Ronning's Ghost]

I get the sense that Jim likes players he liked when he was a scout, Pro and Amateur, a long time ago, love is blind in a sport that is constantly evolving.

This is an interesting insight, and probably accurate, but strikes me as a departure from "JimBro is a genius and all his hockey moves are genius".

Is the bloom off the rose for you?

[Ronning's Ghost]

Can you remind me again how exactly did Benning screw this up. My memory is bad. I keep remembering NMC, NTC or something along those lines.

These are frequently brought up as reasons why the re-build was not accelerated, but Garrison had trade protection and was moved out expeditiously. To me that shows that Benning could overcome those barriers when he believed it was worthwhile, and so in the other cases, did not believe it was worthwhile.