The Rebuild...
Moderator: Referees
- Madcombinepilot
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Re: The Rebuild...
If we are seriously looking at this team for 2-3 years down the road, I would prefer to keep,the younger Sbisa And Goober and trade Edler. Edler will bring back more of a return now, and has been on a bigger decline than any other defenceman we have.
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Re: The Rebuild...
I think it's SKYO who says it more often, but I would like to see the Canucks sell high on the possibly even more valuable, but at serious risk for a shortened career Tanev. I rather doubt the ownership/management groups sees it the same way, though.Madcombinepilot wrote:If we are seriously looking at this team for 2-3 years down the road, I would prefer to keep,the younger Sbisa And Goober and trade Edler. Edler will bring back more of a return now, and has been on a bigger decline than any other defenceman we have.
Others have provided reasons why Edler is very unlikely to be moved, even if it were agreed that was the best way to build the team for the prophesied return to relevance in 2018-2019.
Re: The Rebuild...
Wordup RG.
And don't try to get 4 pieces like MG did from Detroit for Edler, Redwings had 3 pieces ready and almost dealed but gilly got greedy...iirc.
So for Tanev: a roster player, 1st, prospect - getr done.
But mostly I just want a young power winger with skilleez for our top LW side and more picks, is that too much to ask!!!?
Any big L-W that can work with Bo Horvat and Eriksson to form a new #1 line to bump the Sedins FINALLY to the 2nd line.
And don't try to get 4 pieces like MG did from Detroit for Edler, Redwings had 3 pieces ready and almost dealed but gilly got greedy...iirc.
So for Tanev: a roster player, 1st, prospect - getr done.
But mostly I just want a young power winger with skilleez for our top LW side and more picks, is that too much to ask!!!?
Any big L-W that can work with Bo Horvat and Eriksson to form a new #1 line to bump the Sedins FINALLY to the 2nd line.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
- Cherry Picker
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Re: The Rebuild...
Honestly not expecting much to happen. I think a minor move of Pedan or Subban the most likely. A defenseman prospect for a forward prospect deal. Burrows is possible to Montreal or the Rangers. Hansen would require a high return, a good prospect and a high pick. Not sure anyone will offer that, which I think won't really upset Benning. Benning likely wants Hansen around and could be just as happy to expose Baertchi in the expansion draft instead. Baertchi's concussions make him more of a risk to have a short career than Tanev. With his skating ability Hansen could play quite a few more years. A Miller trade will be quite unlikely. Just trying to match a team that wants him with a team that he will waive to go to with a return to the Canucks that makes it worthwhile is likely too many variables to juggle to make it actually happen. Overall, unless some GM comes along and makes an offer Benning can't refuse, it is likely to be pretty quiet.
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- Blob Mckenzie
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Re: The Rebuild...
Can't see Elmer doing nothing Berry Picker. He was roasted for his performance last season and I can't see a repeat of that fiasco again. He has the one bullet of gassing Desjardins at seasons end but he won't risk alienating even more fans than he already has so far. I can see 2-3 players at minimum being traded, just not positive which ones outside of Burrows who is a given to be moved.
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- Chef Boi RD
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Re: The Rebuild...
I completely agree with Cherry Picker. I don't see any big moves at the TD for us. The media is setting it perfectly for ratings roasting cause they know that themselves. Is it really the end of the world if we don't get a 3rd round pick for Burrows in a shite draft year? I just don't see us trading Miller or Hansen, the organization loves those two too much! I myself would love to see those two back next season
Miller, Burrows and Hansen are 3 of the biggest characters in that room, yet we are trading them. You think this team is lifeless now just wait til those 3 are gone for scrub picks we won't see on the team for 3-4 years. If we ever do. Yawn.
I predict Bennings moves will only be at the minor league level. I welcome it, just so I can see the local media goofs blow a gasket or two.
Miller, Burrows and Hansen are 3 of the biggest characters in that room, yet we are trading them. You think this team is lifeless now just wait til those 3 are gone for scrub picks we won't see on the team for 3-4 years. If we ever do. Yawn.
I predict Bennings moves will only be at the minor league level. I welcome it, just so I can see the local media goofs blow a gasket or two.
”This was how twentieth-century Fascism began: with a magnetic leader exploiting widespread dissatisfaction by promising all things.” - Madeleine K. Albright - Fascism: A Warning
Re: The Rebuild...
Anaheim Ducks and Washington Capitals have the cajones to be big buyers, they are both so close to a Cup, just need those key rentals to give em the edge.
Two teams I can see Miller being dealt to is Philly (flyers have meh goalies for the playoffs) or probably the Ducks, Anaheim's GM said he'd give this group core one more chance at the Cup this season and then start make big changes if they don't succeed.
Rolling into the playoffs with the young Gibson might be ok, but as a rental and solid insurance over Bernier acquiring MillerTime 50% would be choice/boss all the old school slang I can think of.
Hansen as well for the Ducks bottom six would be ideal, and they could afford to expose him with their depth up front, plus if he passes they get a bargain next season.
As for what Anaheim would give up is the big question, it would start off with Bernier $4.15m per UFA, then they probably don't want to give up a 1st or Ritchie or Theodore, so it would be someone decent like Max Jones and a couple picks 2017/18.
Washington Capitals is another team that will probably sell the farm for a Cup this season too, they could afford to pay a 1st for Hansen, he'd be their version of a Hagelin pickup by the Pens.
Two teams I can see Miller being dealt to is Philly (flyers have meh goalies for the playoffs) or probably the Ducks, Anaheim's GM said he'd give this group core one more chance at the Cup this season and then start make big changes if they don't succeed.
Rolling into the playoffs with the young Gibson might be ok, but as a rental and solid insurance over Bernier acquiring MillerTime 50% would be choice/boss all the old school slang I can think of.
Hansen as well for the Ducks bottom six would be ideal, and they could afford to expose him with their depth up front, plus if he passes they get a bargain next season.
As for what Anaheim would give up is the big question, it would start off with Bernier $4.15m per UFA, then they probably don't want to give up a 1st or Ritchie or Theodore, so it would be someone decent like Max Jones and a couple picks 2017/18.
Washington Capitals is another team that will probably sell the farm for a Cup this season too, they could afford to pay a 1st for Hansen, he'd be their version of a Hagelin pickup by the Pens.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
- Hockey Widow
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Re: The Rebuild...
I agree with RD. We all, including the media, know how hard it is to move players with trade protection, for a variety of reasons, and we know the expansion draft complicates it for most buyers expect top contenders that may be in more of a risk taking mood.
Yet most of us, myself included, and the media, are Jonesing for some moves. It puts Benning in a no win situation. He only gets to be 1/3 of the decision. There is him, the player with trade protection and the acquiring team. All the signals coming from the team are that they will move quicker than last year and try to capitalize on being early out of the gate,rather than wait it out until the midnight hour on TDD.
Hansen is in a trickier situation personally. If he gets traded this year he risks going to a team that can't or won't protect him. Risks then getting claimed by Vegas only to be shopped by them next trade deadline, then becomes a UFA and possibly on the move again. That could be four moves in two years for he and his family. I think his list of teams may be more focused on teams that will protect him and will be in a position, if he earns it, offer an extension next year. It may be a surprising list of teams he and his agent come up with. Of course if he doesn't get traded he could still get left unprotected, claimed by Vegas and traded next TDD. That's what's going to be on his mind. Stability for he and his family. If the Canucks are not going to protect him there is no reason for them to keep him, imho.
But back to the Dude. He is right. The media is gearing up to set Benning up to fail. Some of these guys make it sound so easy. I bet my last dollar Benning learned from last year and will be better prepared and more willing to part with some guys. I hope anyway but I don't expect any blockbuster moves. Not until after expansion anyway.
Yet most of us, myself included, and the media, are Jonesing for some moves. It puts Benning in a no win situation. He only gets to be 1/3 of the decision. There is him, the player with trade protection and the acquiring team. All the signals coming from the team are that they will move quicker than last year and try to capitalize on being early out of the gate,rather than wait it out until the midnight hour on TDD.
Hansen is in a trickier situation personally. If he gets traded this year he risks going to a team that can't or won't protect him. Risks then getting claimed by Vegas only to be shopped by them next trade deadline, then becomes a UFA and possibly on the move again. That could be four moves in two years for he and his family. I think his list of teams may be more focused on teams that will protect him and will be in a position, if he earns it, offer an extension next year. It may be a surprising list of teams he and his agent come up with. Of course if he doesn't get traded he could still get left unprotected, claimed by Vegas and traded next TDD. That's what's going to be on his mind. Stability for he and his family. If the Canucks are not going to protect him there is no reason for them to keep him, imho.
But back to the Dude. He is right. The media is gearing up to set Benning up to fail. Some of these guys make it sound so easy. I bet my last dollar Benning learned from last year and will be better prepared and more willing to part with some guys. I hope anyway but I don't expect any blockbuster moves. Not until after expansion anyway.
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- Todd Bersnoozi
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Re: The Rebuild...
I think sometimes u gotta move out the vets, so it gives the younger guys the opportunity to step up and become the new characters and leaders of the team. The 3 guys who I see that are ready to take on bigger leadership roles are Sutter, Gudbranson and of course BoHo. This is going to be BoHo's team and the franchise is pretty much grooming him for it. They should make him one of the assistant captains next season, so he can help and learn from the Sedins.RoyalDude wrote: Miller, Burrows and Hansen are 3 of the biggest characters in that room, yet we are trading them. You think this team is lifeless now just wait til those 3 are gone for scrub picks we won't see on the team for 3-4 years. If we ever do. Yawn.
Re: The Rebuild...
Oh, I think we're going to see quite a bit of movement but not as much "high profile" as is being talked about around town.
I's starting to occur to me that it (may?) have been, and still is, part of Willie's job to showcase certain players.
Players that we call journeymen or 4th liners.
Players that have stuck around and been given mysterious time in important roles like the PP, PK. 1st line, etc.
Deployment decisions that have left everyone, including the media, agape.
I think Benning is going to collect as many picks as he can, particularly in the later rounds.
It's becoming my belief, he thinks he can find what others can't, in those later rounds.
If that's true, at least he's self confident. That's good, isn't it?
The organization must be well aware and willing to deal with the fact that along with the parent team, the farm, (Utica), and the acreage, (Alaska), needs upgrading too..
I's starting to occur to me that it (may?) have been, and still is, part of Willie's job to showcase certain players.
Players that we call journeymen or 4th liners.
Players that have stuck around and been given mysterious time in important roles like the PP, PK. 1st line, etc.
Deployment decisions that have left everyone, including the media, agape.
I think Benning is going to collect as many picks as he can, particularly in the later rounds.
It's becoming my belief, he thinks he can find what others can't, in those later rounds.
If that's true, at least he's self confident. That's good, isn't it?
The organization must be well aware and willing to deal with the fact that along with the parent team, the farm, (Utica), and the acreage, (Alaska), needs upgrading too..
"evolution"
- Hockey Widow
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Re: The Rebuild...
He won't be able to dump all of his forwards, as an example. Let's say both Burrows and Hansen are dealt. We know they need to protect the twins, Louie, Sutter. They will likely protect Bo, Baertschi and Granlund. But then there is this:
"They will have to have two forwards available for selection who are a) under contract in 2017-18 and b) played in 40 or more NHL games the prior season OR played in 70 or more NHL games in the prior two seasons."
That means at least two of Dorsett, Skille, Megna and Chaput must be available. If Dorsett is still on IR he doesn't count. But wait, Skille, Megna and Chaput are not under contract for next year. So Benning has a little work to do to make sure he is in compliance. Simple as extended the above mentioned three to one year deals.
Not sure if Boucher will qualify. He won't get 40 games here and I'm too lazy to look and see if he will have 70 last year and this. Is he under contract next year?
Sorry, I guess Gaunce will qualify.
Of course if he makes trades he might pick up a couple of players to fill that requirement. Just saying he needs to manage it.
D and goaltending are set.
"They will have to have two forwards available for selection who are a) under contract in 2017-18 and b) played in 40 or more NHL games the prior season OR played in 70 or more NHL games in the prior two seasons."
That means at least two of Dorsett, Skille, Megna and Chaput must be available. If Dorsett is still on IR he doesn't count. But wait, Skille, Megna and Chaput are not under contract for next year. So Benning has a little work to do to make sure he is in compliance. Simple as extended the above mentioned three to one year deals.
Not sure if Boucher will qualify. He won't get 40 games here and I'm too lazy to look and see if he will have 70 last year and this. Is he under contract next year?
Sorry, I guess Gaunce will qualify.
Of course if he makes trades he might pick up a couple of players to fill that requirement. Just saying he needs to manage it.
D and goaltending are set.
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- Chef Boi RD
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Re: The Rebuild...
Pretty much spot on, HW.
Anyone with a brain can see from miles away that it's going to be a rather uneventful trade deadline for the Canucks. The local media morons know this but they are setting it up nicely for a public roasting, hence lots of phone calls, which means, great ratings. Classic media frenzy, create the buzz, justify your jobs. What's worse is the moronic mob mentality Canuck fans typically buying into it. I liken these fans to the fans that rioted in the streets of Vancouver those two times. This city is chalk full of them.
If there is a trade, the most likely one to go is Burrows, but that is a maybe. Like HW says regarding the obstacles "the player, his trade protection and the dancing partner the other team involved" A Hansen trade is a Seller trade to a team vying for Cup run, but teams vying for a cup run are all in tough situations regarding player protecting for the expansion draft and as we know, all good teams have lots of good players, so bringing in a Hansen with one year left on his deal, creates problems for whatever team may be interested, coupled with the problem of Hansen even wanting to waive to go to said team. And as Hansen said yesterday, he wants to stay here, he loves it here. Not an easy trade.
The two best trade options are Burrows and Miller because of their UFA status but Canucks like Burrows as about as much as they like the Sedins. Remember, we are only 4 points out of the Wildcard and we all know how much the AQUA'S love playoff revenue. The offer for Burrows would have to be too good to pass up instead of some measly offerings like the ones they were getting for Hamhius. Remember, the 2017 draft class is a shitty one.
The Miller situation is different. The Canucks want to keep Demko in the AHL for another year. They would like to resign Miller, if he is interested. This deal only happens if Miller can open up to the mgmt and "say I want to play for a contender to help my cause to land an awesome contract next season. Or "I want to play in the playoffs". Or "I want to test the open free market come July" Canucks MGMT counters "we are only 4 points out of a playoff spot, we really like you and we would love to have you back here next season and maybe the season after. The Miller situation is a moving target.
Then there is the defence, but read the Hansen stuff above. Same scenario. We'd be trading contracts with term that goes beyond this year to teams who most likely have expansion draft protection issues as well. Not easy.
I am predicting some very minor deals at the minor league level and then the moron mobsters like - Jeff Patterson, Blake Price, Tony Gallagher, Botchford, Pratt, Sekeras will be loveing it, creating a mad, rioting frenzy as per usual. So comical, so predictable.
I actually believe we will see little to no activity from the Canucks at the Deadline but a lot more trade activity leading up to the draft and in the off-season. Fans need to wake up and smell what the Benning is cooking and fucking forget about the trade deadline and look forward to before the draft, that's when I expect to see some real trades to take place for the Canucks.
Anyone with a brain can see from miles away that it's going to be a rather uneventful trade deadline for the Canucks. The local media morons know this but they are setting it up nicely for a public roasting, hence lots of phone calls, which means, great ratings. Classic media frenzy, create the buzz, justify your jobs. What's worse is the moronic mob mentality Canuck fans typically buying into it. I liken these fans to the fans that rioted in the streets of Vancouver those two times. This city is chalk full of them.
If there is a trade, the most likely one to go is Burrows, but that is a maybe. Like HW says regarding the obstacles "the player, his trade protection and the dancing partner the other team involved" A Hansen trade is a Seller trade to a team vying for Cup run, but teams vying for a cup run are all in tough situations regarding player protecting for the expansion draft and as we know, all good teams have lots of good players, so bringing in a Hansen with one year left on his deal, creates problems for whatever team may be interested, coupled with the problem of Hansen even wanting to waive to go to said team. And as Hansen said yesterday, he wants to stay here, he loves it here. Not an easy trade.
The two best trade options are Burrows and Miller because of their UFA status but Canucks like Burrows as about as much as they like the Sedins. Remember, we are only 4 points out of the Wildcard and we all know how much the AQUA'S love playoff revenue. The offer for Burrows would have to be too good to pass up instead of some measly offerings like the ones they were getting for Hamhius. Remember, the 2017 draft class is a shitty one.
The Miller situation is different. The Canucks want to keep Demko in the AHL for another year. They would like to resign Miller, if he is interested. This deal only happens if Miller can open up to the mgmt and "say I want to play for a contender to help my cause to land an awesome contract next season. Or "I want to play in the playoffs". Or "I want to test the open free market come July" Canucks MGMT counters "we are only 4 points out of a playoff spot, we really like you and we would love to have you back here next season and maybe the season after. The Miller situation is a moving target.
Then there is the defence, but read the Hansen stuff above. Same scenario. We'd be trading contracts with term that goes beyond this year to teams who most likely have expansion draft protection issues as well. Not easy.
I am predicting some very minor deals at the minor league level and then the moron mobsters like - Jeff Patterson, Blake Price, Tony Gallagher, Botchford, Pratt, Sekeras will be loveing it, creating a mad, rioting frenzy as per usual. So comical, so predictable.
I actually believe we will see little to no activity from the Canucks at the Deadline but a lot more trade activity leading up to the draft and in the off-season. Fans need to wake up and smell what the Benning is cooking and fucking forget about the trade deadline and look forward to before the draft, that's when I expect to see some real trades to take place for the Canucks.
”This was how twentieth-century Fascism began: with a magnetic leader exploiting widespread dissatisfaction by promising all things.” - Madeleine K. Albright - Fascism: A Warning
Re: The Rebuild...
I think the entire Canucks nation across the known universe would be happy with at least Burrows being dealt for a pick.
Miller/Sbisa etc would just be bonus.
In any case yeah we need to keep our best trade chips for the NHL draft after the expansion draft dust settles.
I honestly think the Av's will stockpile as much assets it can in a big draft day trade.
As they'll trade down to #2 or #3 so they can get any of the big 3 in Timothy Liljegren or Hischier or Patrick.
imo they might just go after Liljegren if they can't wrangle a high end young dman for Duchene.
http://www.milehighhockey.com/2017/2/18 ... ntry-draft
They already got MacK and Jost is almost ready for their new center core.
Plus it's calculable that the Yotes, Vegas, Canucks, Stars won't go for Liljegren, so they can get him along with other assets.
So if we land #3 I'd offer up Tanev + Virtanen + 1st (3rd overall) for Landeskog + 1st overall.
*#2 though obviously we keep it.
If they acquire Tanev they can deal off their other RD for a forward.
Miller/Sbisa etc would just be bonus.
In any case yeah we need to keep our best trade chips for the NHL draft after the expansion draft dust settles.
I honestly think the Av's will stockpile as much assets it can in a big draft day trade.
As they'll trade down to #2 or #3 so they can get any of the big 3 in Timothy Liljegren or Hischier or Patrick.
imo they might just go after Liljegren if they can't wrangle a high end young dman for Duchene.
http://www.milehighhockey.com/2017/2/18 ... ntry-draft
They already got MacK and Jost is almost ready for their new center core.
Plus it's calculable that the Yotes, Vegas, Canucks, Stars won't go for Liljegren, so they can get him along with other assets.
So if we land #3 I'd offer up Tanev + Virtanen + 1st (3rd overall) for Landeskog + 1st overall.
*#2 though obviously we keep it.
If they acquire Tanev they can deal off their other RD for a forward.
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
- Madcombinepilot
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Re: The Rebuild...
first off, you think wrong. Burrows is one of the few puck retrievers we have. IF we trade him and lose/ trade Hansen, well, we see how the rest of the team goes into the corners and gets pucks...SKYO wrote:I think the entire Canucks nation across the known universe would be happy with at least Burrows being dealt for a pick.
Miller would be a bonus, Sbisa is a loss of Depth. I would rather trade Edler.. looking to the futureMiller/Sbisa etc would just be bonus.
you have already traded the entire team 10 times over this week.. "keeping trade chips" is not really in line with your posts...In any case yeah we need to keep our best trade chips for the NHL draft after the expansion draft dust settles.
Tanev is the best defenceman we have.. why are you trading him, and keeping Edler??? in 2-3 years when the team matures, Edler is going to be old, slow and worthless.. Tanev has a better potential to be still contributing to the team.. you need to make up your mind.. are you wanting to trade picks for players, or stockpile picks?? why are you trading 2 first round picks? (this years and Virtanen??)So if we land #3 I'd offer up Tanev + Virtanen + 1st (3rd overall) for Landeskog + 1st overall.
*#2 though obviously we keep it.
If they acquire Tanev they can deal off their other RD for a forward.
The 'Chain of Command' is the chain I am going to beat you with until you understand I am in charge.
Re: The Rebuild...
People need to realize that it is hard to replace elite players.. all other players are interchangeable..there isn't a big difference from one to the other, some might be better at certain little things and others might have other qualities, but the differences are minimal... it is the elite players that make the difference between a good team and a bad team...