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Sick Bunny wrote: I'm sorry that it annoys you that I undermine your arguments.

The only thing you've been undermining lately is Per's skirt!

Sick Bunny wrote: Rather than ranting and raving about me, maybe you should just get better arguments.

Ranting and raving about YOU???

Why Bun-Buns, do you feel you are a...

"Wide-eyed bleeding-heart fear-mongering sniffin-his-own-poop doom-and-gloom fucking leftist fascist"??

Strangelove wrote:Why Bun-Buns, do you feel you are a...

"Wide-eyed bleeding-heart fear-mongering sniffin-his-own-poop doom-and-gloom fucking leftist fascist"??

No, that's what you were ranting and raving about before I came in, remember?

I am by no means the exclusive target of The Strangelove Frustration. Just the smartest, nicest, sexiest one.

Sick Bunny wrote:

Strangelove wrote: Ranting and raving about YOU???

Why Bun-Buns, do you feel you are a...

"Wide-eyed bleeding-heart fear-mongering sniffin-his-own-poop doom-and-gloom fucking leftist fascist"??

No, that's what you were ranting and raving about before I came in, remember?

Wait.... so are you saying you're not a.....

"Wide-eyed bleeding-heart fear-mongering sniffin-his-own-poop doom-and-gloom fucking leftist fascist"??

Nudists like warm weather!

just sayin....

Strangelove wrote:"Must... get... last... word... in..."

Hey, did you know that hares are traditionally associated with the Virgin Mary? So when you insult me, you insult Jesus's mom!

Sick Bunny wrote:

Strangelove wrote:"Must... get... last... word... in..."

Hey, did you know that hares are traditionally associated with the Virgin Mary? So when you insult me, you insult Jesus's mom!

So you're saying we should stop splitting hares?

Topper wrote:I do not except the brief historical summary of the earth by a handful of 5th century BC historians as the most relevant thinking on the issue

Oh, come on Topper! It's not like they just made it all up! They copied most of it from the older Sumerian and Akkadian creation myths, that date back to at least 4000 BC (copyright laws were not as strict back then as today, and hardly ever enforced). It's all in there, the garden of Eden, the flood, the whole shebang. Main difference being that the various versions predating the Hebrew one tend to have have more gods. In the Mesopotamian Enuma Elish myth (1200 BC, possibly older) there are six generations of gods doing what the Hebrew god (who they actually borrowed from the Kaananite religion) does in six days, but according to both accords, after that the god(s) rest.

Anyway, what I was saying, is that the Slartibartfast rush job create a planet in less than a week myth was not just the brainchild of a handful of 500 BC Middle East nomad goatherds; it was a condensed version of creation myths manufactured and polished over millenia by the finest minds in what today is known as Iraq, and incidently happens to be the place where Abraham (Ibrahim?) grew up.

Why the Israelites reduced the number of Gods, I don't know. I personally think that Moses, who supposedly was raised at Pharaoh's court, may have come across and become fascinated by the Aten-worship introduced in Egypt by Akhenaten (aka Amenhotep IV). That is afaik the first monotheistic religion in the Middle East, predating any archeological evidence of Judean culture by at least 200 years. Maybe the Aten-worshippers, who became ostracised after Akhenaten's death, joined forces with the Hebrew nomades and headed east towards Kaanan to flee their persecution by the Egyptian priesthood, and somehow during this forced marriage out of necessity, Aten merged with the old Kaananite deity El to become the lone ranger god of the Old Testament? That could explain why some one from Pharaoh's court ended up heading out of Egypt with a bunch of lowly goatherds and low rank construction workers. This theory was popularised by Sigmund Freud, but is not really in vogue among present scholars of Middle East religion. Still. I like it. It explains a lot. Aten was a sun god, and the early Judean state had a winged sun as it's official seal. In the Old Testament god is at times called El (a Kaananite deity), at times the mysterious Yahweh (an ancient Moabite deity) - a name so sacred Jews are not allowed to say it out loud - and at times Adonai. Adonai, eh? Kind of reminds me of Aton, aka Aten...

This would also explain why parts of the Psalms and Proverbs in the Bible are ripoffs of ancient Egyptian texts.

Per wrote:So you're saying we should stop splitting hares?

That would be my preference -- gonna be a bad hare day if we don't!

Per wrote:Why the Israelites reduced the number of Gods, I don't know.

You might look at it the other way 'round though: monotheism is one of the crucial ideological ingredients needed for a religion to achieve world-wide success. This, however, is only obvious in hindsight.

So perhaps there was no good reason whatsoever. Maybe Moses got drunk and did it on a whim. Maybe he slurred his words and they got misinterpreted by his closest lieutenants. But if he hadn't, then some other random set of obscure superstitions would have eventually risen to world domination, and we'd be sitting here pondering the significance of THAT instead. Except maybe there isn't any significance, and it was all just happenstance.

Sick Bunny wrote:

Per wrote:Why the Israelites reduced the number of Gods, I don't know.

You might look at it the other way 'round though: monotheism is one of the crucial ideological ingredients needed for a religion to achieve world-wide success. This, however, is only obvious in hindsight.

So perhaps there was no good reason whatsoever. Maybe Moses got drunk and did it on a whim. Maybe he slurred his words and they got misinterpreted by his closest lieutenants. But if he hadn't, then some other random set of obscure superstitions would have eventually risen to world domination, and we'd be sitting here pondering the significance of THAT instead. Except maybe there isn't any significance, and it was all just happenstance.

They killed off all the female gods...that was the beginning of stupid trade ideas and alternative life styles...

Topper wrote: I would be loathe to lock in one scientific view and not allow it to be challenged.

The Economist shares a similar view, and goes on to demonstrate the effects of such laws in other states.

http://www.economist.com/node/21553060

DOES a bill that does nothing actually do something? This is not a Zen koan, but a legislative one,.....

Also

Strangelove wrote:
Glad to hear it buddy!!

*gets inspired to put up another post in the Conspiracy Theory thread*

Doc, they also offer a wonderful segue for you.

Josh Rosenau, of the National Centre for Science Education (NCSE), asks why the bill singles out science classrooms as a place where pupils should be urged to think critically. After all, some people believe the 1969 moon landing was faked or that the Holocaust is a hoax; why not require history teachers to inform pupils of both sides of those issues, too?

Per wrote:

Topper wrote:I do not except the brief historical summary of the earth by a handful of 5th century BC historians as the most relevant thinking on the issue

Why the Israelites reduced the number of Gods, I don't know. I personally think that Moses, who supposedly was raised at Pharaoh's court, may have come across and become fascinated by the Aten-worship introduced in Egypt by Akhenaten (aka Amenhotep IV). That is afaik the first monotheistic religion in the Middle East, predating any archeological evidence of Judean culture by at least 200 years. Maybe the Aten-worshippers, who became ostracised after Akhenaten's death, joined forces with the Hebrew nomades and headed east towards Kaanan to flee their persecution by the Egyptian priesthood, and somehow during this forced marriage out of necessity, Aten merged with the old Kaananite deity El to become the lone ranger god of the Old Testament? That could explain why some one from Pharaoh's court ended up heading out of Egypt with a bunch of lowly goatherds and low rank construction workers. This theory was popularised by Sigmund Freud, but is not really in vogue among present scholars of Middle East religion. Still. I like it. It explains a lot. Aten was a sun god, and the early Judean state had a winged sun as it's official seal. In the Old Testament god is at times called El (a Kaananite deity), at times the mysterious Yahweh (an ancient Moabite deity) - a name so sacred Jews are not allowed to say it out loud - and at times Adonai. Adonai, eh? Kind of reminds me of Aton, aka Aten...

This would also explain why parts of the Psalms and Proverbs in the Bible are ripoffs of ancient Egyptian texts.

Have you read The Source a historical novel by James A. Michener, first published in 1965. It is a survey of the history of the Jewish people and the land of Israel from pre-monotheistic days to the birth of the modern State of Israel.
If not you should give it a go, Michener creates an interesting take on how stone age spiritualism gives way to the idea of gods and finally to one God and he ties it to the establishment of agriculture. It kind of makes sense in that what need would there be for a god until you have crops in the ground and are at the mercy of Nature in a way that hunters and gatherers are not. Being tied to one spot and unable to explain or predict droughts and floods, plagues and famines would put the fear of God into anyone...
(Either way its the God of Abraham and not Moses.)

Topper wrote:

Topper wrote: I would be loathe to lock in one scientific view and not allow it to be challenged.

The Economist shares a similar view, and goes on to demonstrate the effects of such laws in other states.

http://www.economist.com/node/21553060

DOES a bill that does nothing actually do something? This is not a Zen koan, but a legislative one,.....

My how revolutionary, a bill allowing teachers to "analyze, critique, and review in an objective manner the scientific strengths and scientific weaknesses of existing scientific theories".

No longer shall our children be required to swallow said theories as gospel!

Galileo would be proud.

“Free at last, Free at last, Thank God almighty we are free at last.”

Topper wrote:

Josh Rosenau, of the National Centre for Science Education (NCSE), asks why the bill singles out science classrooms as a place where pupils should be urged to think critically.

One wonders wot Mr Galileo would say to Mr Rosenau....

Strangelove wrote:

Topper wrote:

Josh Rosenau, of the National Centre for Science Education (NCSE), asks why the bill singles out science classrooms as a place where pupils should be urged to think critically.

One wonders wot Mr Galileo would say to Mr Rosenau....

Can't speak for American schools, but in Canada and the UK critical thinking is required in all classes..

ukcanuck wrote: Can't speak for American schools, but in Canada and the UK critical thinking is required in all classes..

Define "critical thinking".