Olympics, Paris, 2024

[Topper]

Molly Simpson 5th for Canada

[Strangelove]

[Megaterio Llamas]

Berlin 1916

[Megaterio Llamas]

[Per]

So people really think an Arab Muslim nation like Algeria would be championing trans rights?

And the same people who insist that gender assigned at birth is the only thing that matters are demanding that Imane Khelif, born woman, should be forced to transition to male.

From what I understand this is a direct parallell to Caster Semenya. They are both women, but with unusually high testosterone levels. Now, all men and all women have both testosterone and oestrogen, but the levels are different. All people aren’t the same, and on the bell curve of things some women actually have more testosterone than some men. This is usually tough for them, as testosterone tends to give you more male features, and so they are typically found unattractive.

Anyway, I have a hard time understanding why people should be disqualified from sports just because they are better than their opponents. There have been attempts at setting a maximum allowed testosterone level for female athletes, which is why Khelif wasn’t allowed to compete in the world championship, but if you’re not juicing, if this is your natural level, I think that is ludicrous. It is the same thing as having a height limit for basketball players. No one is going to convince me that a seven foot player doesn't have an unfair advantage over a guy who is 5’10”. But we still allow them to play, don’t we?

Amine Khelif and Caster Semenya face a lot of hostility because of how they look and because they are stronger than most other women, but what the hell are they supposed to do about it? For a number of years Semenya was forced to take drugs that would lower her testosterone levels to compete, but she has told that she felt like shit and got all sorts of weird side effects, so she stopped taking them. Both of them were born girls. Should society really force them to transition to male against there own will?

[Cousin Strawberry]

And the same people who insist that gender assigned at birth is the only thing that matters are demanding that Imane Khelif, born woman, should be forced to transition to male.

Aha...so NOW we're using this to determine the legitimate gender again?

[rats19]

So people really think an Arab Muslim nation like Algeria would be championing trans rights?

And the same people who insist that gender assigned at birth is the only thing that matters are demanding that Imane Khelif, born woman, should be forced to transition to male.

From what I understand this is a direct parallell to Caster Semenya. They are both women, but with unusually high testosterone levels. Now, all men and all women have both testosterone and oestrogen, but the levels are different. All people aren’t the same, and on the bell curve of things some women actually have more testosterone than some men. This is usually tough for them, as testosterone tends to give you more male features, and so they are typically found unattractive.

Anyway, I have a hard time understanding why people should be disqualified from sports just because they are better than their opponents. There have been attempts at setting a maximum allowed testosterone level for female athletes, which is why Khelif wasn’t allowed to compete in the world championship, but if you’re not juicing, if this is your natural level, I think that is ludicrous. It is the same thing as having a height limit for basketball players. No one is going to convince me that a seven foot player doesn't have an unfair advantage over a guy who is 5’10”. But we still allow them to play, don’t we?

Amine Khelif and Caster Semenya face a lot of hostility because of how they look and because they are stronger than most other women, but what the hell are they supposed to do about it? For a number of years Semenya was forced to take drugs that would lower her testosterone levels to compete, but she has told that she felt like shit and got all sorts of weird side effects, so she stopped taking them. Both of them were born girls. Should society really force them to transition to male against there own will?

Strange this has not occurred before…with all the years of male/ female categories … just showing up now…must be the food…….

[5thhorseman]

And the same people who insist that gender assigned at birth is the only thing that matters are demanding that Imane Khelif, born woman, should be forced to transition to male.

Aha...so NOW we're using this to determine the legitimate gender again?

You mean like for 99.99% of the female athletes at the Games.

[Chef Boi RD]

It’s coming down to not what gender you are that categorizes you but your XY and XX chromosome count that categorizes you and who you compete against?

[5thhorseman]

It’s coming down to not what gender you are that categorizes you but your XY and XX chromosome count that categorizes you and who you compete against?

The gender lines are becoming more blurred. Unlike gender identity, this one is harder to dismiss.

[Megaterio Llamas]

There are two of these people competing in boxing this year, not just the Algerian. And I understand both were disqualified from competing in the boxing world championships last year based on failed hormone test results.

[Per]

There are two of these people competing in boxing this year, not just the Algerian. And I understand both were disqualified from competing in the boxing world championships last year based on failed hormone test results.

Right. At the world championship they had set a maximum testosterone level, but I’m not sure that’s the right way to go about it. Because it is not that they have injected hormones, it is that their natural testosterone levels are much higher than the typical average for women.

To me that is the exakt same thing as saying that basketball players must not be taller than 6’5”.

You want athletes to be strong, but than you say the strongest ones can’t compete.

[Per]

And the same people who insist that gender assigned at birth is the only thing that matters are demanding that Imane Khelif, born woman, should be forced to transition to male.

Aha...so NOW we're using this to determine the legitimate gender again?

Just pointing out the hypocracy in that the same people who argue this are the ones complaining about Khelif competing as a woman, when this is what she has been all her life.

I don’t really have a good answer to how trans athletes should be handled, but these two boxers that people are talking about aren't trans. They are both women that were assigned female at birth but have high testosterone levels. That’s basically like a basketball player being tall or a swimmer having huge hands.

[Megaterio Llamas]

There are two of these people competing in boxing this year, not just the Algerian. And I understand both were disqualified from competing in the boxing world championships last year based on failed hormone test results.

Right. At the world championship they had set a maximum testosterone level, but I’m not sure that’s the right way to go about it. Because it is not that they have injected hormones, it is that their natural testosterone levels are much higher than the typical average for women.

To me that is the exakt same thing as saying that basketball players must not be taller than 6’5”.

You want athletes to be strong, but than you say the strongest ones can’t compete.

No that's wrong Per. The Algerian, at least, failed an IBA hormone test. They were prepared to control for testosterone levels. This personal supposedly has XY hormones.

From the eye test I can tell you that this person is winning fights based on abnormal punching power, not superior boxing technique.

IBA spars with IOC over eligibility of Olympic boxers who failed gender tests

Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-Ting are under fire at the Paris Olympics

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/iba-spar ... nder-tests

The International Boxing Association (IBA) fired back at the International Olympic Committee (IOC) and maintained its decision to disqualify Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-Ting from its world championship in 2023 was "justified" based on tests that year and in 2022.

The IBA said World Boxing, which was created to become the sport’s governing body following its separation from the IOC, reinforced ineligible athletes to compete in their very own recently announced events. Khelif was able to compete in two World Boxing events earlier this year.

"We absolutely do not understand why any organization would put a boxer at risk with what could bring a potential serious injury within the ‘Field of Play’ (FOP). The main role of the referee in the ring is to manage the boxer’s safety at all times. How is this reasonably practicable when a boxer fails to meet the eligibility criteria to compete?" the IBA said.

"The IBA will never support any boxing bouts between the genders, as the organization puts the safety and well-being of our athletes first. We are protecting our women and their rights to compete in the ring against equal rivals, and we will defend and support them in all instances; their hopes and dreams must never be taken away by organizations unwilling to do the right thing under difficult circumstances.

"IBA stands by its position and will continue to support all athletes within the spirit of the rules."

At the time of Khelif’s disqualification, IBA President Umar Kremlev said, "Based on DNA tests, we identified a number of athletes who tried to trick their colleagues into posing as women.

"According to the results of the tests, it was proved that they have XY chromosomes. Such athletes were excluded from competition."

The IOC maintained its stance on allowing Khelif to compete in the Olympic Games despite the outrage Thursday’s match against Angela Carini caused and Lin’s ability to compete on Friday.

"These two athletes were the victims of a sudden and arbitrary decision by the IBA," the IOC said. "Towards the end of the IBA World Championships in 2023, they were suddenly disqualified without any due process.

"According to the IBA minutes available on their website, this decision was initially taken solely by the IBA Secretary General and CEO. The IBA Board only ratified it afterwards and only subsequently requested that a procedure to follow in similar cases in the future be established and reflected in the IBA Regulations. The minutes also say that the IBA should "establish a clear procedure on gender testing."

"The current aggression against these two athletes is based entirely on this arbitrary decision, which was taken without any proper procedure – especially considering that these athletes had been competing in top-level competition for many years."

[Megaterio Llamas]