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UWSaint wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:36 am But would it surprise anyone to learn that they had expectations from Linden when they hired him and those expectations haven't been achieved?

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the marching orders when Lindenning was hired were "we expect to make the playoffs".

That alone doesn't make them meddlesome, just stupid.

Some owners just can't handle a rebuild.

Island Nucklehead wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:51 am

UWSaint wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:36 am But would it surprise anyone to learn that they had expectations from Linden when they hired him and those expectations haven't been achieved?

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the marching orders when Lindenning was hired were "we expect to make the playoffs".

That alone doesn't make them meddlesome, just stupid.

Some owners just can't handle a rebuild.

No, some can't handle a rebuild. Which is stupid (when it is the best choice available), because it is a recipe for chronic mediocrity (though rebuilds are no sure fire solution, as is evidenced by the fact that more rebuilding efforts fail (or have trouble getting off the ground) than succeed).

But my point is that if they made this expectation to Linden (make playoffs in year 4), and Linden knew that was the expectation, and the Canucks didn't perform and didn't even come close to performing, there is nothing wrong with firing him/parting ways. An employees' representation that they can achieve an unreasonable expectation when they can't is worse than having an unrealistic expectation to begin with. The Prez of Hockey Ops has to manage expectations up and demand results down.

Of course, its all speculation as to what the actual expectations were, whether they were communicated and understood, and whether they changed. And regardless of what did occur, we can't know yet whether what comes next for executive management will be better or worse than having Linden. While it is generally true that instability is a demerit for players evaluating where to play and a signal to would-be management to steer clear (those who are Free Agents or those considering waiving a NTC or selecting the Canucks as a team to be traded to if they have a M-NTC), it is also true that some people do these jobs far better than others.

Island Nucklehead wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:54 am

RoyalDude wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:08 am Shanahan approached T.O ownership and proposed a full tank rebuild. They accepted. The Aquas have never loved the idea of a “full gut” rebuild, as noted with the firings. It explains all the messy veteran signings and trading picks for vets, too appease the brats. Tough place to work with bosses like that

I meant it more along the lines of an established NHL HHoF player with credibility in the hockey world that might be able to walk into the owners box and tell them what they need to hear. Tampa Bay used to have the worst ownership and one of the worst reputations in hockey, new owner Vinik arrives on the scene, poaches Yzerman, and now they seem to be doing alright.

Overall though, I agree, super-fans often make for terrible owners.

3 fired GM’s/president for wanting to be patient and rebuild tells me that the a “Shanahan” HHOF type would do diddly squat in changing the minds of a spoiled brat ownership.

Linden was fired. Fuck this really pisses me off. Can we just cut the bullshit. Aqualini's didn't start the rebuild until Burrows and Hansen go traded. Linden and Benning wanted to strip it the fuck down years ago. The A Family wanted to sign the Erickson!!!! That was such a bullshit move!

Now Linden was not onboard with the 4 year signing of these 3 dudes this year. These moves were approved by Francesco!!! He wants this!

Once this stupid family got off the playoff dream and figured out what a real REBUILD was it's shown they have no fucking patience to build a winner. There is no shorcuts. To many quick fixes!!!! Guaranteed Linden did not want Hughes here right now. But Aqua man is so damn horny to pump the gate.

Finally Linden and Benning have stocked the prospect pool and stability was growing and a slow burn of admiration of what was happening.

At some point you have to stop judging the guys that are handcuffed by a owner that has no idea what a rebuild is...

Linden did not want Beagle and these guys for 4 years...

I know Linden has no experience, I know Benning had no experience, I know Mike Gillis had no experience, I know we have had two coaches that were rookies, I know Pronger is floating around with no experience.

Seriously everyone needs to stop hating on on these guys and look no further than the owners...

Orca was a tad hard to deal with too. No?

Now remove his jersey from the rafters.

Topper wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:49 am Now remove his jersey from the rafters.

Strangelove wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:57 am

Topper wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:49 am Now remove his jersey from the rafters.

Little Jerome?

Don't buy tickets....

Seriously don't buy tickets to the Beagle show...

#Pronger - Stop it really just stop it.

Don't buy tickets.

How many years are we going to wait... this organization has no credibility....they are throwing shit at the wall..then firing every couple of years...

Where is the stability!!! - Linden and Shanahan on same page - but TO fucked around for so many years until BS had the balls to tell them we need to go through pain to win...

This is not about Linden... It's all about ownership, this is their vision since they purchased the Canucks and we are living it.

They key part in Francesco’s twitter barrage was that he felt everyone had to be on the same page during a rebuild, which he acknowledged was a slow process.

He also backtracked and said Trevor didn’t step down because he’s not a quitter, it’s was an amicable parting of ways. Ya he was let go.

The translation, lack of agreement on moving forward. I don’t see it as consequences of decisions since his hiring but the way forward. Same language Linden used in letting Gillman and a few others go. Everyone has to be on the same page.

As I also said yesterday a little birdie told me that Linden and Benning were the two that didn’t see eye to eye. Doc stated as much yesterday too. ( is Doc my little birdie?)

If there was no clear path forward or a consensus moving forward then someone has to go and the owner isn’t selling. Once we see what Benning does over the next six months, maybe sooner, we will have a pretty good idea of what direction the owner wanted to go in.

Topper wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:59 am Little Jerome?

Elliotte:

Hearing Dean Lombardi is a serious contender for open job in VAN.

We’ll see where it goes.

Whoa bringing in the big guns to help build this team, would love to have Lombardi join the hockey mind crew, would definitely help in the trade calls, Lombardi built that Cup team in LA, even though he didn't have the mindset to keep that longevity going, but all we'd need him for is to help facilitate the big hard trades to get the pieces needed to complete a fully contending team.

DHA wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:03 am Don't buy tickets....

Seriously don't buy tickets to the Beagle show...

#Pronger - Stop it really just stop it.

Don't buy tickets.

How many years are we going to wait... this organization has no credibility....they are throwing shit at the wall..then firing every couple of years...

Where is the stability!!! - Linden and Shanahan on same page - but TO fucked around for so many years until BS had the balls to tell them we need to go through pain to win...

This is not about Linden... It's all about ownership, this is their vision since they purchased the Canucks and we are living it.

You're overreacting.

It's stable... for a rebuild.

Four years of Jimmy building, building, building...

#buytickets

SKYO wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:44 am

Elliotte:

Hearing Dean Lombardi is a serious contender for open job in VAN.

We’ll see where it goes.

Whoa bringing in the big guns to help build this team, would love to have Lombardi join the hockey mind crew, would definitely help in the trade calls, Lombardi built that Cup team in LA, even though he didn't have the mindset to keep that longevity going, but all we'd need him for is to help facilitate the big hard trades to get the pieces needed to complete a fully contending team.

Whats the bet he takes over for JB in 2 years or less...if he climbs aboard

DHA wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:03 am Don't buy tickets....

Seriously don't buy tickets to the Beagle show...

#Pronger - Stop it really just stop it.

Don't buy tickets.

How many years are we going to wait... this organization has no credibility....they are throwing shit at the wall..then firing every couple of years...

Where is the stability!!! - Linden and Shanahan on same page - but TO fucked around for so many years until BS had the balls to tell them we need to go through pain to win...

This is not about Linden... It's all about ownership, this is their vision since they purchased the Canucks and we are living it.

I'm confused about the Beagle show reference and the conclusion (its all about ownership).

You don't seem happy with the Beagle show.

But if you're not happy with it, do you think that ownership demanded signing Jay Beagle, Antoine Roussel, or Tim Schaller? Do you think they demanded having this rebuild supplemented by 4th line veterans? Don't you think that Linden supported Benning on those moves (by telling him they would sign them to deals that were above market to get them here if those are the guys Benning wants), and don't you think that the target player type was based on Benning's need assessment in consultation with Linden? And if you think that direction was a problem and Linden facilitated it, aren't you happy Linden's gone?

Personally, I don't care much about this offseason's signings. They don't impact the next core. They don't impact the rebuild (except maybe insofar as "grit" had a higher TDD value than 2d line winger last season). They don't impact player development, insofar as the top prospects are top 9 projects and all this season's moves do (by signing likely 4th liners) is show that the kids will be getting significant roles and expected to fill the Sedins and Vanek.