2024 Offseason - moving forward

[Diehard1]

Just sparking up some off season chit chat with respect to a team that clearly needs a fear inducing, belligerent prick or two to take another step forward.

With all the uncertainty with its UFA’s and rumours around the Canucks, it seems the talk about this priority has fallen by the way side.

This team needs assholes up front in a big big way.

I have to think this happens - talk about them be interested in Duhaime and Martinook, both of whom fit the bill, is evidence. They will definitely need some size and speed if Guentzel is brought on, especially on the top 2 lines. Miller is one guy but need at least 1 more on Petey's line and perhaps even 1 on Miller's if Suter goes back to 3C as I think he should.

I'd almost prefer to sign a $2-$3 million d-man instead of Zadorov and have the cap space to go after another big body up front. Soucy, Myers and 1 more big guy at the back is enough size there but definitely need some at forward.

[donlever]

I 100% do not want to see Suter playing top 6 minutes again.

That is not a moving forward prospective

[Strangelove]

That is not a moving forward prospective

Agreed, in order to move forward we need to move that forward back to the 4th line.

[Hockey Widow]

Blueger was such a good fit on the 3rd line. If both he and Joshua come back we have that line set and it allows for Suter to move to the 4th line. Concentrating then on fixing the top six.

I'm not sure Podkolzin is ready for top 6 or if he ever will be but I remember when he briefly played with Miller and Boeser that Miller sang his praises and said he liked the kid on his line so maybe its time to give him an extended look there. Hoglander, I like, I like a lot but he too struggled down the stretch and into the playoffs. So I'd be fine moving him for a pick or younger prospect if we could land a true top six.

OTOH, Suter, Hoglander and Podkolzin could make a decent 4th line.

[donlever]

OTOH, Suter, Hoglander and Podkolzin could make a decent 4th line.

Doesn't solve our truculence issue though HW (the Duhaime/Martinook reference in Diehards post above).

I'd be all for moving Hoglander out and replacing with a legit asshole.

I would also be down with moving the angry little elf to solve this issue were comparable ROI achieved in return.

[BoS]

OTOH, Suter, Hoglander and Podkolzin could make a decent 4th line.

Doesn't solve our truculence issue though HW (the Duhaime/Martinook reference in Diehards post above).

I'd be all for moving Hoglander out and replacing with a legit asshole.

I would also be down with moving the angry little elf to solve this issue were comparable ROI achieved in return.

Garland had a strong year and decent playoff. His stock is perhaps as high as it will be.

I’d like to see one of Hoglander/Podkolzin moved for another winger.

[Chef Boi RD]

Boeser - UFA after 2024-25
Demko - UFA after 2025-26
Hughes - UFA after 2026-27

This dictates everything “moving forward”. Three of your “core group”. Personally, Chef sees Hughes as being the biggest challenge to re-sign. I get the sense he’d like to play with his bros sometime in his career. I think he’s walking to UFA to make himself available to Jersey. Boeser is our only legitimate top 6 winger, Allvin and Ruth have their hands full in the present with that situation. The Demko game plan is in its early phase but it’s most certainly is on the back of their minds. Silovs arrival has made the Demko UFA situation interesting. Every move “now” affects how we deal with these three down the road. Don’t really want to see us walking these three to UFA losing them for nothing. They is Americans and some of them love their retirement contracts to be in the land of the red, white and blue. Not all…JT Miller, so there is hope

[UWSaint]

Boeser - UFA after 2024-25
Demko - UFA after 2025-26
Hughes - UFA after 2026-27

This dictates everything “moving forward”. Three of your “core group”. Personally, Chef sees Hughes as being the biggest challenge to re-sign. I get the sense he’d like to play with his bros sometime in his career. I think he’s walking to UFA to make himself available to Jersey. Boeser is our only legitimate top 6 winger, Allvin and Ruth have their hands full in the present with that situation. The Demko game plan is in its early phase but it’s most certainly is on the back of their minds. Silovs arrival has made the Demko UFA situation interesting. Every move “now” affects how we deal with these three down the road. Don’t really want to see us walking these three to UFA losing them for nothing. They is Americans and some of them love their retirement contracts to be in the land of the red, white and blue. Not all…JT Miller, so there is hope

Boeser's not a core player to me. I really like what he did last year. I really like that he can score a ton while playing an increasingly smart and relatively conservative game. I don't know if that season can be replicated -- I think if you take away that ridiculously hot start and get the steady play of the rest of the season (which was still probably his more consistent game of his career), that's what you might reasonably expect as the "good Boeser." 28-33 goals. 30-35 assists. Something in that range.

If you are planning around Boeser, than you are affirmatively saying you want to be in for a long term contract after this contract expires and he's 28.5. I'm not sure that's good enough because (1) I'm not certain they can add another high quality expensive player on top of that and maintain requisite depth, (2) without adding that player I think their ceiling probably is something short of Stanley Cup contender, small group, and (3) I am not sure Brock Boeser is the over 30 yo contract I want once he's 31, 32. I'm not sure his game ages well.

So if you can make moves that improve on Boeser next year & get assets for Boeser, you have to seriously consider doing it now. And my bet is Allvin is exploring that very thing this week, and would use salary savings to acquire their target (who I am assuming is Guentzel). Now that's a very risky prospect since the obvious time for a trade is by the draft and landing Guentzel happens after, and I don't know about the wisdom of targeting a guy who's about to turn 30 and wants a long term deal, but if this management group is trying to build the best team possible through the end of Hughes' current deal, I can definitely see this as something that unfolds over the next week.

I'm not advocating this path as much as noting it is a reasonable one and one I can certainly see this management group thinking is good. I'm not sold on targeting Guentzel due to age and that I think he'll demand 6-7 years and get it from somewhere (though I like the player a lot). A less risky and less disruptive way to getting Guentzel (or whoever the target is) is finding an IM65 taker and taking bigger risks with the D (which I can see as a possibility especially if Myers is signed for something in the $3M range). But it seems like the IM65 thing isn't turning out to be easy. And that path doesn't include the assets a Boeser trade would bring back.

I'm all for Boeser for a club friendly (no raise) 4 year deal after his current deal expires, but if he can play as "good Boeser" next season, I think he'd be leaving quite a bit on the table.

[donlever]

Great post per usual UW.

This more than adequately summarizes the thoughts of the pump-n-dump conversation held by several here at this GDHTMB this past year.

I mentioned earlier in the season the extra half step I wish he had which could potentially flip him into actually being that first line "core" scoring winger.

As he ages his skating and foot speed will suffer further and I think push him down the lineup in the New Age NHL which at anything more than he currently earns will potentially become a definitve net loss.

[rikster]

Boeser - UFA after 2024-25
Demko - UFA after 2025-26
Hughes - UFA after 2026-27

This dictates everything “moving forward”. Three of your “core group”. Personally, Chef sees Hughes as being the biggest challenge to re-sign. I get the sense he’d like to play with his bros sometime in his career. I think he’s walking to UFA to make himself available to Jersey. Boeser is our only legitimate top 6 winger, Allvin and Ruth have their hands full in the present with that situation. The Demko game plan is in its early phase but it’s most certainly is on the back of their minds. Silovs arrival has made the Demko UFA situation interesting. Every move “now” affects how we deal with these three down the road. Don’t really want to see us walking these three to UFA losing them for nothing. They is Americans and some of them love their retirement contracts to be in the land of the red, white and blue. Not all…JT Miller, so there is hope

Boeser's not a core player to me. I really like what he did last year. I really like that he can score a ton while playing an increasingly smart and relatively conservative game. I don't know if that season can be replicated -- I think if you take away that ridiculously hot start and get the steady play of the rest of the season (which was still probably his more consistent game of his career), that's what you might reasonably expect as the "good Boeser." 28-33 goals. 30-35 assists. Something in that range.

If you are planning around Boeser, than you are affirmatively saying you want to be in for a long term contract after this contract expires and he's 28.5. I'm not sure that's good enough because (1) I'm not certain they can add another high quality expensive player on top of that and maintain requisite depth, (2) without adding that player I think their ceiling probably is something short of Stanley Cup contender, small group, and (3) I am not sure Brock Boeser is the over 30 yo contract I want once he's 31, 32. I'm not sure his game ages well.

So if you can make moves that improve on Boeser next year & get assets for Boeser, you have to seriously consider doing it now. And my bet is Allvin is exploring that very thing this week, and would use salary savings to acquire their target (who I am assuming is Guentzel). Now that's a very risky prospect since the obvious time for a trade is by the draft and landing Guentzel happens after, and I don't know about the wisdom of targeting a guy who's about to turn 30 and wants a long term deal, but if this management group is trying to build the best team possible through the end of Hughes' current deal, I can definitely see this as something that unfolds over the next week.

I'm not advocating this path as much as noting it is a reasonable one and one I can certainly see this management group thinking is good. I'm not sold on targeting Guentzel due to age and that I think he'll demand 6-7 years and get it from somewhere (though I like the player a lot). A less risky and less disruptive way to getting Guentzel (or whoever the target is) is finding an IM65 taker and taking bigger risks with the D (which I can see as a possibility especially if Myers is signed for something in the $3M range). But it seems like the IM65 thing isn't turning out to be easy. And that path doesn't include the assets a Boeser trade would bring back.

I'm all for Boeser for a club friendly (no raise) 4 year deal after his current deal expires, but if he can play as "good Boeser" next season, I think he'd be leaving quite a bit on the table.

Hot start aside, he scored 7 goals and 12 points in 12 playoff games to end the season which some would consider a red hot finish, and has turned into a strong 200 foot player who is complimented by his coaches for his ability to think the game...

Complain about his foot speed, but it hasn't shown itself to be a problem especially when the games get faster and harder ...

Boeser is the last thing on managements mind right now, unless you think Rutherford was dishonest when he said that they are happy for him and will deal with his contract at the end of the season...

IF there is a player management is thinking of being pro active about, my guess is that it's Demko whose inability to stay healthy for me trumps the concern over Boeser's next contract....

This is an important year for Demko from a health point of view, what does the team do if there is a repeat of last season?

Take care..

[Meds]

Boeser - UFA after 2024-25
Demko - UFA after 2025-26
Hughes - UFA after 2026-27

This dictates everything “moving forward”. Three of your “core group”. Personally, Chef sees Hughes as being the biggest challenge to re-sign. I get the sense he’d like to play with his bros sometime in his career. I think he’s walking to UFA to make himself available to Jersey. Boeser is our only legitimate top 6 winger, Allvin and Ruth have their hands full in the present with that situation. The Demko game plan is in its early phase but it’s most certainly is on the back of their minds. Silovs arrival has made the Demko UFA situation interesting. Every move “now” affects how we deal with these three down the road. Don’t really want to see us walking these three to UFA losing them for nothing. They is Americans and some of them love their retirement contracts to be in the land of the red, white and blue. Not all…JT Miller, so there is hope

Boeser's not a core player to me. I really like what he did last year. I really like that he can score a ton while playing an increasingly smart and relatively conservative game. I don't know if that season can be replicated -- I think if you take away that ridiculously hot start and get the steady play of the rest of the season (which was still probably his more consistent game of his career), that's what you might reasonably expect as the "good Boeser." 28-33 goals. 30-35 assists. Something in that range.

This can be said about probably 80% of the top-6 forwards in the league.

The Sedins often went several games without producing a point. Then they would notch 10 points over 4 games.

Look at some of the “slumps” McDavid has had this year. Even in the playoffs there were times where he went a couple games without doing much…..and he’s the best there is.

But we aren’t talking about a franchise player. We are talking about complimentary core piece.

I really don’t think Guentzel is a better option than Boeser. Especially when you consider their current respective ages.

Yes, Guentzel has produced more consistently than Boeser, however, when Guentzel made his NHL debut he stepped onto a team led by the best center in the game who happened to be backed up by another guy who was arguable top 5 in the same spot. Boeser, on the other hand, joined an aging team that was headed for rebuild. He never had a good 1C to play with until Pettersson came along, and even then we aren’t talking about a Crosby level player.

If the argument for Guentzel is predicated upon the Canucks needing to find someone for Pettersson to play with, then they haven’t done their job as cap and asset managers because a player making 11 sheets should not need a winger making 9. If that’s the case then trade Pettersson because you overpaid him.

[Strangelove]

If the argument for Guentzel is predicated upon the Canucks needing to find someone for Pettersson to play with, then they haven’t done their job as cap and asset managers because a player making 11 sheets should not need a winger making 9. If that’s the case then trade Pettersson because you overpaid him.

How many of the top centres in the league DON'T have at least one top winger?

In 2022-23 Petey put up 39 + 63 = 102 points (plus 16) with his usual wingers consisting of some combo of:

Beauvillier, Kuzmenko, and Mikheyev.

[Strangelove]

Boeser is the last thing on managements mind right now, unless you think Rutherford was dishonest when he said that they are happy for him and will deal with his contract at the end of the season...

... and that with Boeser being a pending UFA.

If he were a core player, Nucks would be making it a priority to re-sign him this summer.

The fact they instead want to "deal with Boeser's contract at the end of the season"

... tells me they are not sold on him repeating last year's numbers.

And if they're not sold on Boeser, perhaps they'd consider the right trade this off-season.

(AFTER/if they sign Guentzel?)

Yes they would have to bring in another top-6 forward to replace him.

(perhaps someone younger/more physical)

Who knows how they see Boeser in the long term big picture?

Nice to see you back posting Chef Boi RD!

[Hockey Widow]

The unfortunate unknown with Boeser right now is his blood disorder. Now it has been said that they expect he will make a full recovery but nothing has been said definitely. So we don't even know when he can begin his off season training or if he will be ready for camp. Rutherford has said they won't deal with a Boeser extension until the new year at the earliest because of this and because of the fact he has had one great season after a couple of very disappointing seasons. So for all the reasons outlined throughout the year, the book is still out on what Boeser we can expect moving forward.

This too will hamper any trade talk, unless there is already a medical around saying nothing to see here.

I love the Boeser we saw this past year and maybe he can duplicate that for another 1-2 years. Miller is killing it at his age so there is that. If we have positive medical prognosis I would be fine extending him 3-5 years but at no more than what he is making now. Five years would take him until the end of Miller's contract as well. And you play with the cap. Shorter term 7 M maximum. Longer term lower cap.

The truth is we don't have anyone other than Likemyasser who is projected as a top six and we don't know how he shows at camp to see if he even has a chance of breaking into the NHL yet. The Boeser situation is 100% better than last year. This year we have reasonable options. Fortunately we don't have to make any decision on him right now, we can get through FA and see what we land.

[Strangelove]

Boeser's shooting percentage explosion last season may indicate a fluke season.