CanucksCorner.com Forums

Uncle dans leg wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:40 pm

micky107 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 3:30 pm ...long term patients...

....It's fucking hard.

*Mick looking around the care home for the right words

Actually being hard, I thought he was looking for something else ........

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:49 pm
Four guys in six years is a steady stream. Ok then

Lol @ Blob wetting his pants over kids drafted a month and a half ago not playing in the NHL yet

We went through this whole AHL thing months ago, hardly any good NHLers spend more than a half season in the AHL. If they do, they are second-tier prospects and naturally require more development time.

It doesn't matter if your prospects come from college, SHL, junior or the AHL - all that matters is that they make it.

ESQ wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:32 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:49 pm
Four guys in six years is a steady stream. Ok then

Lol @ Blob wetting his pants over kids drafted a month and a half ago not playing in the NHL yet

We went through this whole AHL thing months ago, hardly any good NHLers spend more than a half season in the AHL. If they do, they are second-tier prospects and naturally require more development time.

It doesn't matter if your prospects come from college, SHL, junior or the AHL - all that matters is that they make it.

Four regulars in six drafts pee pee pants

Boeser
Petterson
Hughes
Virtanen
Demko
Brisebios
Gaudette

Played in the NHL last season

Tryamkin - KHL
McCann - Pittsburgh

Juolevi would have seem time if not a season ending surgery to his knee

JB record of drafting and players who have played in the NHL

2019 - not applicable
2018 - 1 player with 5 games
2017 - 1 player (EP) with 71 games and Dipetro with 1 game
2016 - zero/0/naughta players have played in the NHL
2015 - 3 players, Boeser, Brisebois (8 games), Gaudette (61 games)
2014 - 5 players have played in the NHL, 2 for other teams, 1 went back to Russia and then we have Demko and Virtanen

28 picks from 2014-2017

Picks during this term that have contributed to the team:
EP
BB
JV

Picks that have played but not regulars:
Gullaume Brisebois
Adam Gaudette
Thatcher Demko

No longer on the team:
Jared McCann
Gustav Forsling
Nikita Tryamkin- yeah they hold his rights but unknown if he will come back

RoyalDude wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 5:38 pm Boeser
Petterson
Hughes
Virtanen
Demko
Brisebios
Gaudette

Played in the NHL last season

Tryamkin - KHL
McCann - Pittsburgh

Juolevi would have seem time if not a season ending surgery to his knee

Virtanen
Boeser
Petterson
Hughes

Four regulars on the team, learn to count. Point was the development system is in question, from Cull and previously Green and Desjardins. IMHO the development is closely aligned with the amount of depth and talent in the pipeline. Hopefully things are on the upswing. A healthy farm system is essential to having a good team long term.

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:49 pm

Hank wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:34 pm Plus, they already have 2nd and 3rd rounders developing well in college in Madden and Lockwood.

Not every pick is going to have to toil for years in Utica. Some never play a minor league game, some play only a handful. Some are only there due to roster and contract situations.

A steady stream of draft picks that plays NHL games regardless of how they get here is impressive. We're finally seeing it with this regime.

Four guys in six years is a steady stream. Ok then

Yes it is

Topper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:24 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:49 pm

Hank wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:34 pm Plus, they already have 2nd and 3rd rounders developing well in college in Madden and Lockwood.

Not every pick is going to have to toil for years in Utica. Some never play a minor league game, some play only a handful. Some are only there due to roster and contract situations.

A steady stream of draft picks that plays NHL games regardless of how they get here is impressive. We're finally seeing it with this regime.

Four guys in six years is a steady stream. Ok then

Yes it is

Not really. At that pace that would be 8 guys over 12 years.

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:41 pm

Topper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:24 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:49 pm

Hank wrote: ↑Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:34 pm Plus, they already have 2nd and 3rd rounders developing well in college in Madden and Lockwood.

Not every pick is going to have to toil for years in Utica. Some never play a minor league game, some play only a handful. Some are only there due to roster and contract situations.

A steady stream of draft picks that plays NHL games regardless of how they get here is impressive. We're finally seeing it with this regime.

Four guys in six years is a steady stream. Ok then

Yes it is

Not really. At that pace that would be 8 guys over 12 years.

Wrong. You are extrapolating later picks development at the same rate as 1st round picks.

Show your math

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:07 pm Show your math

4 x 2 = 8
6 x 2 = 12

Topper wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:17 pm

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:07 pm Show your math

4 x 2 = 8
6 x 2 = 12

well played

Blob Mckenzie wrote: ↑Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:07 pm Show your math

The only math that matters...

UWSaint wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:34 am

micky107 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:47 am This is an even more detailed version of what Dahlen has been saying and his thought pattern;
https://canucksarmy.com/2019/03/05/jona ... ucks-fans/

As for development, Dahlen is quoted in that article as saying, "I have not been able to do anything offensive without being afraid of being benched if I make a mistake."

I think this is an issue with Green and Goldobin as well. The goal in hockey is not to eliminate errors. It is to score more goals than the other team. And the best way to do that isn't a secret: (1) create more chances than the other team and (2) have a good keeper. Errors can contribute to chances by the other team. Making only safe plays reduces chances you get.

Of course, with Dahlen, I'm thinking, if you aren't scared of leaving and playing in Europe, why don't you just play your game? The worst thing that can happen to you by continuing to play a offensive minded game is that you get cut and go to Europe, just like you are doing. Apprehension and its consequences, though, are not the stuff of rational thought.

I think there may also be a bit of a culture clash involved.

Traditionally, in Sweden we focused a lot on systems and error minimization. The focus was always on the team, not on the individual, and virtually all teams played the trap. It worked fairly well, but we ended up with mostly Samuel Påhlsson type of guys; shutdown centres, stay-at-home d-men, unselfish players. The peak was Sweden's world championship gold in 1998. That year the final was played in two games, with the combined score determining the winner. In game one Sweden and Finland played 0-0. In game two Sweden won 1-0, to win the championship on a combined score of 1-0 over six periods of hockey in the final.

Gradually people started to worry about hockey becoming boring, and that we needed to develop more star players. As a result the Swedish Hockey Federation initiated a programme basically turning the whole youth programme on its head. The new idea was to focus on skill and individual development. Learning to play it safe and to strictly follow a system could be left to the later stages of development. As a result deking and taking chances is now encouraged in junior hockey, and to get there, coaches have had to stop yelling at players taking risks. More praise and encouragement and less critique and punishment. The criticism given should be constructive and help the player develop his game.

The idea being that it is easier to teach a skilled player when to use caution than to teach a cautious player skill.

The rewamped system is working. Especially when it comes to developing offensive d-men, which has become something of a Swedish specialty (Gustafsson, Hedman, Karlsson, Klingberg, Dahlin, Ekholm, Ekman-Larsson...). But forwards have also become more skilled and selfish. We are developing more of a shoot first mentality, which has traditionally been our Achilles heel. But this has come to fruition through a change in coaching, and I think in North America there is still more of a traditional take on this.

Now, when you have a player like Petey, who is so skilled he makes people's jaw drop, of course the coach will accept the risk taking involved in his style of play. Anything else would be lunacy. But for someone who is not really superstar quality, but still pretty good, like Dahlén, the failed attempts might piss the coach off more than the succesful attempts please him.

I think it is quite likely that this is what happened hear. Cull has called Dahlén out for stupid risk taking, and punished him for it, and Dahlén not being used to this coaching style has not really been able to get to grips with what he has done wrong and how to correct it. The same stuff that earned him praise in Sweden is suddenly getting him benched. This has messed with his confidence, and when you don't feel confident on the ice, you start to hesitate, and in the fast paced hockey of today there is no room for that. This then becomes a viscious circle, leading to more criticism and lower confidence and more mistakes.

If it is also true, as has been suggested, that Cull likes grinders better than skill players, then maybe Utica wasn't the best spot for Dahlén to be.
I still think he has the capacity to play in the NHL, and I feel the Canucks wasted a good prospect here, but I guess it is what it is.

People in Timrå are thrilled to have him back though. While he was gone they got demoted from the SHL again, and they now hope he will once more lead them to the promised land; or at very least the SHL...