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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2025 8:51 pm
by 5thhorseman
Tciso wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 7:42 pm
What should we base our morals on?
Whatever we want. We all want to survive. Co-exist. Live in a society. Thrive. Our morals are the the beliefs that enable those things.
We don't need anything external to us to tell us what those morals SHOULD be.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2025 10:07 pm
by Meds
5thhorseman wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 8:51 pm
Tciso wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 7:42 pm
What should we base our morals on?
Whatever we want. We all want to survive. Co-exist. Live in a society. Thrive. Our morals are the the beliefs that enable those things.
We don't need anything external to us to tell us what those morals SHOULD be.
So you are saying subjective morality is the way to go?
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:02 am
by 5thhorseman
Mëds wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 10:07 pm
5thhorseman wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 8:51 pm
Tciso wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 7:42 pm
What should we base our morals on?
Whatever we want. We all want to survive. Co-exist. Live in a society. Thrive. Our morals are the the beliefs that enable those things.
We don't need anything external to us to tell us what those morals SHOULD be.
So you are saying subjective morality is the way to go?
At the societal level, yes, and in fact, we are already doing so.
We used to say "life is sacred". Now we recognise that people with terminal illnesses are suffering and lose their dignity, so we have MAID.
Abortion used to be a criminal act, now we recognise a woman's right to control her body.
Morals evolve as we evolve.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:46 am
by Chef Boi RD
There are approximately 1.9 billion people, or about 24% of the world's population in 2020, that were religiously unaffiliated (atheist, agnostic), a number that grew from 1.6 billion in 2010. The term "non-religious" or "unaffiliated" encompasses atheists, agnostics, and those who don't identify with any particular religion, even if they hold some spiritual beliefs.
They/we seem to be doing just dandy regarding “morals”. The whole argument that you need “Christianity” to have morals is the biggest pile of bullshit the Christian nationalist movement wants you to believe. The con is alive and kicking, but it won’t stand.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:51 am
by UWSaint
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:46 am
They/we [the atheists] seem to be doing just dandy regarding “morals”.
Sure. Lenin. Stalin. Mao. Pol Pot. Hitler; possibly into paganism, but decidedly not Christian.
What could go wrong?
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:54 am
by UWSaint
5thhorseman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:02 am
We used to say "life is sacred". Now we recognise that people with terminal illnesses are suffering and lose their dignity, so we have MAID.
Abortion used to be a criminal act, now we recognise a woman's right to control her body.
Morals evolve as we evolve.
Yes, help the old and disabled (and lonely!) kill themselves. And eliminate those clumps of cells. I mean they could be anything. Enlightened! Progress!
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:56 am
by Chef Boi RD
Tciso wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 7:03 pm
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 3:29 pm
Again, since when is anti-fascism a bad thing, ffs.
What is Antifa's definition of fascism?
I don’t know, there’s no memo, group, headquarters, company prospectus, president, church, rabbi, priest, captain, CEO, leader, mission statement, manifesto, outfit, capital. Just a once in awhile gathering of individuals expressing their concerns that their government has forgotten the first amendment:
The First Amendment is a part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects individual freedoms from government interference, specifically guaranteeing freedom of religion, speech, the press, assembly, and the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Adopted on December 15, 1791, its core purpose is to restrict the power of the government, not private entities, to limit these fundamental rights.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:57 am
by Chef Boi RD
UWSaint wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:51 am
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:46 am
They/we [the atheists] seem to be doing just dandy regarding “morals”.
Sure. Lenin. Stalin. Mao. Pol Pot. Hitler; possibly into paganism, but decidedly not Christian.
What could go wrong?
You’re right, UW, where do I sign up? Nearest Christian hall? I’m a rampaging lunatic without morals about to rape and pillage an go postal.
What I find curious with the Christian nationalist right is empathy is woke. Empathy, that’s evil. Not part of the Christian nationalist construct. Morals you say.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 8:01 am
by UWSaint
Cornuck wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 9:40 am
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 9:36 am
Education is the problem in the states, IMO
Illiteracy rates are about the same in Canada.
I’m all for literacy, Corn.
But at several points in this thread from multiple posters there has been a suggestion that intelligence is correlated with better morals, or being less prone to manipulation, or being impervious to doing really stupid things.
There is limited evidence to establish this correlation. The thing is, smart people are not immune from the many irrational heuristics and selfish motivations that affect us all. But they think they are immune to them, and that hubris can multiply the consequences of their errors.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 8:04 am
by UWSaint
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:57 am
UWSaint wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:51 am
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:46 am
They/we [the atheists] seem to be doing just dandy regarding “morals”.
Sure. Lenin. Stalin. Mao. Pol Pot. Hitler; possibly into paganism, but decidedly not Christian.
What could go wrong?
You’re right, UW, where do I sign up? Nearest Christian hall? I’m a rampaging lunatic without morals about to rape and pillage an go postal.
What I find curious with the Christian nationalist right is empathy is woke. Empathy, that’s evil. Not part of the Christian nationalist construct. Morals you say.
Strawman owned!
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 8:40 am
by Chef Boi RD
UWSaint wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 8:04 am
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:57 am
UWSaint wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:51 am
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:46 am
They/we [the atheists] seem to be doing just dandy regarding “morals”.
Sure. Lenin. Stalin. Mao. Pol Pot. Hitler; possibly into paganism, but decidedly not Christian.
What could go wrong?
You’re right, UW, where do I sign up? Nearest Christian hall? I’m a rampaging lunatic without morals about to rape and pillage an go postal.
What I find curious with the Christian nationalist right is empathy is woke. Empathy, that’s evil. Not part of the Christian nationalist construct. Morals you say.
Strawman owned!
Not sure why you’re getting angry, are we all supposed to agree on everything? Be all on the same page, with the same team, party, cult, belong to the same church? Opposition is the pillar of our society (checks and balances), which is why we need to fight against church and state. I get the sense you prefer church and state to a degree, as an only way for a society to have “morals” (through Christianity) in which I think is absolute bullshit.
Approximately 29% of U.S. adults identify as religiously unaffiliated, also known as "nones," according to recent Pew Research Center data. This group includes those who identify as atheist (5%), agnostic (6%), or "nothing in particular" (19%).
Curious if we are seeing a rise in raping and pillaging from this 29% of Americans who are non religious affiliated?
UW a question - is empathy woke? Would you agree that having empathy was very important to Jesus Christ?
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 8:46 am
by Tciso
5thhorseman wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 8:51 pm
Tciso wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 7:42 pm
What should we base our morals on?
Whatever we want. We all want to survive. Co-exist. Live in a society. Thrive. Our morals are the the beliefs that enable those things.
We don't need anything external to us to tell us what those morals SHOULD be.
But, what are our collective morals? Are they all situational? Are some morals universal? Are some morals fixed, or do all morals change over time?
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 10:36 am
by UWSaint
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 8:40 am
UWSaint wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 8:04 am
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:57 am
UWSaint wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:51 am
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:46 am
They/we [the atheists] seem to be doing just dandy regarding “morals”.
Sure. Lenin. Stalin. Mao. Pol Pot. Hitler; possibly into paganism, but decidedly not Christian.
What could go wrong?
You’re right, UW, where do I sign up? Nearest Christian hall? I’m a rampaging lunatic without morals about to rape and pillage an go postal.
What I find curious with the Christian nationalist right is empathy is woke. Empathy, that’s evil. Not part of the Christian nationalist construct. Morals you say.
Strawman owned!
Not sure why you’re getting angry, are we all supposed to agree on everything? Be all on the same page, with the same team, party, cult, belong to the same church? Opposition is the pillar of our society (checks and balances), which is why we need to fight against church and state. I get the sense you prefer church and state to a degree, as an only way for a society to have “morals” (through Christianity) in which I think is absolute bullshit.
Approximately 29% of U.S. adults identify as religiously unaffiliated, also known as "nones," according to recent Pew Research Center data. This group includes those who identify as atheist (5%), agnostic (6%), or "nothing in particular" (19%).
Curious if we are seeing a rise in raping and pillaging from this 29% of Americans who are non religious affiliated?
UW a question - is empathy woke? Would you agree that having empathy was very important to Jesus Christ?
Who is Jesus Christ?
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 10:37 am
by Chef Boi RD
Ok, you’re getting cute, deflecting, I’ll move on, nothing to see here. Was at least hoping you could answer the question regarding “empathy”, is it woke?
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 10:41 am
by Chef Boi RD
Interesting AI overview of atheism and morality.
Atheist morality is not a single, monolithic system but a diverse array of ethical frameworks developed by individuals without belief in a deity. These values are often rooted in secular humanism, emphasizing empathy, compassion, and the well-being of others, which are seen as sufficient for moral guidance rather than divine commands. Atheist values are grounded in human experience, reason, and a desire to reduce suffering, leading to moral choices that promote fairness and protect vulnerable individuals, according to social science research.
That’s some real evil shit there regarding atheism and their “morals”