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Strangelove wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:14 pm There was no misunderstanding.

So, to reiterate, would you agree that for a “reasonable person” to proclaim JB a Genius, such “reasonable person” would need to see evidence indicating that JB was doing a significantly better job than an average NHL GM? (or, by your analogy, would a "reasonable person" need to "hear" evidence indicating that composer(X) was doing a significantly better job than an average composer in order for that person to be able to proclaim that composer(X) was indeed a "Genius"?)

DonCherry4PM wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:49 pm So, to reiterate, would you agree that for a “reasonable person” to proclaim JB a Genius, such “reasonable person” would need to see evidence indicating that JB was doing a significantly better job than an average NHL GM? (or, by your analogy, would a "reasonable person" need to "hear" evidence indicating that composer(X) was doing a significantly better job than an average composer in order for that person to be able to proclaim that composer(X) was indeed a "Genius"?)

That was the longest sentence in CanucksCorner history... congratulations!!

Now try to relax and just listen to the music Lord Benning is playing...

Strangelove wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:18 pm

Ronning's Ghost wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:46 pm

Strangelove wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:26 pm LMAO... if only it were so simple Cliffy!

Wins = Genius.

You just can't stop with all your "we" stuff, so hilarious...

If genius from a hockey manager is not reflected in wins -- and ultimately, championships -- how else would it manifest ?

Let's say a few years have gone by and the Canucks have won a coupla Cups with Jimbro at the helm.

At that point many folks would be proclaiming Jimbro a genius.

Would that mean he wasn't a genius a few years before that?

No... it would in fact prove that he was a genius all along!

We have always agreed on this point.

And if a few years go by, and the Canucks haven't won a couple of Cups, what would that prove ?

Either way, it is necessary to collect the evidence (Cups, or lack thereof) to make the determination.

Strangelove wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:18 pm
The winning comes after the masterful rebuild.....

All I can do is ask that people try to see the magnificent masterpiece Jimbro is painting...

Sure, and if there is no winning, then there was no Masterpiece. Hence my assertion that more data (i.e. wins after the rebuild is complete -- next year was it ?) is required to declare that Jim Benning is a hockey management genius. Yes, that will mean that he was a genius the whole time, but the evidence isn't in yet.

But it seems we agree: we need evidence of a Masterpiece (Championships) to conclude that the painter/composer/architect was (yes, all along) a genius. If that evidence appears, you can rightly claim you were ahead of the curve and saw it in the mix of the pigments, the first chords of the overture, the layout of the scaffolding and cut of the stones. I want to see the Masterpiece before I proclaim genius.

The open question is how many seasons is a fair shot at it before we say "That's it, give up, you're just smearing paint around the canvas -- now give someone else a try" ?

+1 to that RG.

A much more eloquent response than I had in mind.

RoyalDude wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:02 pm JimBro's Genius drafting was on full display today coming via the Price/Sekeras Team 1040 show when their Special Guest Adam Gaudette layed to rest any notion of him possibly entertaining the idea of going back to college next year to become a free agent. Mentioning honourng the Canucks for drafting him, giving him a chance, while the other 29 teams passed over him for 5 rounds. The leading scorer of the NCAA and Hobey Baker Nominee also mentioned that him and Boeser (2015 draft class mate) are good friends and talk all the time. This guy is s beaut, JimBro's drafting is pure genius! What a steal. After 6 years of shite embarrassing drafting under the Gillis regime, JimBro Benning is da shit!

Thanks !! That made my day.
Thank you too, Todd for putting up the link..

DonCherry4PM wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:54 pm +1 to that RG.

A much more eloquent response than I had in mind.

+2

Honestly don’t worry about SL, he absolutely lives for these types of debates.

Ronning's Ghost wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:44 pm

Strangelove wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:18 pm Let's say a few years have gone by and the Canucks have won a coupla Cups with Jimbro at the helm.

At that point many folks would be proclaiming Jimbro a genius.

Would that mean he wasn't a genius a few years before that?

No... it would in fact prove that he was a genius all along!

We have always agreed on this point.

So you agree that Jimbro may in fact be a genius TODAY.

Good.

Ronning's Ghost wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:44 pm it is necessary to collect the evidence (Cups, or lack thereof) to make the determination...

Hence my assertion that more data is required to declare that Jim Benning is a hockey management genius...

Yes, that will mean that he was a genius the whole time, but the evidence isn't in yet...

we need evidence of a Masterpiece (Championships) to conclude that the painter/composer/architect was (yes, all along) a genius.

If that evidence appears, you can rightly claim you were ahead of the curve and saw it in the mix of the pigments, the first chords of the overture, the layout of the scaffolding and cut of the stones. I want to see the Masterpiece before I proclaim genius.

And here is where "we" disagree.

I see enough evidence to proclaim him a genius TODAY.

You don't... c'est la vie.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

You have been working hard around here trying to reach some kind of a... consensus

... as to when folks should feel free to proclaim him a genius.

All this "we" stuff.

Well guess what, this "beholder" will never agree to such a thing!

I'll say it again.

LORD BENNING IS A GENIUS!!!

Listen, I hope one day you get all the data/evidence you need Cliffy

... but that's not my problem brother.

DonCherry4PM wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:54 pm A much more eloquent response than I had in mind.

I'm glad Cliffy stepped in then!

Never post angry my friend...

Strangelove wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:26 pm
LORD BENNING IS A GENIUS!!!™
Listen, I hope one day you get all the data/evidence you need Cliffy
... but that's not my problem brother.

Will you be providing that data/evidence in 1-2 years™?

Hopefully I won'y have to.

BTW what I predicted to happen in 1-2 years won't be enough to meet Cliffy's stated requirements...

Strangelove wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:26 pm
You have been working hard around here trying to reach some kind of a... consensus

... as to when folks should feel free to proclaim him a genius.

What I have been trying to do is to bring you around the the idea of objective criteria, but it seems that you're not into it, and it's boring some other posters.

Strangelove wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:26 pm
Listen, I hope one day you get all the data/evidence you need Cliffy

... but that's not my problem brother.

If I don't get this evidence, you will be more unhappy about it than I will, because it will mean that either the Canucks haven't had any playoff success, or Benning is no longer the GM.

Strangelove wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:02 pm
BTW what I predicted to happen in 1-2 years won't be enough to meet Cliffy's stated requirements...

Hey, it was Royal Dude who introduced the whole "Masterpiece defines the genius" concept. The lowest threshold I proposed for consideration http://canuckscorner.com/forums/viewtop ... =2&t=10898 was Conference Finals by 2020.

2016 2nd rounders

1. Jonathan Dahlen - 20 goals 17 assists 37 points in 31 games
2, Rasmus Asplund - 6 goals 19 assists 25 points in 38 games

RoyalDude wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:13 pm 2016 2nd rounders

1. Jonathan Dahlen - 20 goals 17 assists 37 points in 31 games
2, Rasmus Asplund - 6 goals 19 assists 25 points in 38 games

Benning drafted neither of these guys and they play in different leagues. Is there a point to this nonsense ?

Strangelove wrote: ↑Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:34 pm

DonCherry4PM wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:54 pm A much more eloquent response than I had in mind.

I'm glad Cliffy stepped in then!

Never post angry my friend...

Who's angry?

I enjoy trying to steer you towards more reasoned thinking.

I was just thankful for RG's post as it was a much more eloquent response (and probably succinct) than the one I had in mind.

Jared McCann - 5 goals 7 assists
Rasmus Asplund - 6 goals 19 assists