US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond

[Topper]

To a large extent, Trump/Vance were right in what they did. Curbing expansion of Russia also means curbing expansion of NATO to Russia's borders. That fuck up was made three years ago with talk of admitting Ukraine to NATO.

It sucks for Ukraine, but the world, as is life, is not fair. At some point the war needs to stop and throwing more money and arms at the situation will only prolong the war.

Its fish or cut bait and Trump has decided it is time to cut bait while many in the world still want to keep fishing. We'll see what their resolve is as the motor needs gas and and Ukraine is running out of chum for the waters.

[rats19]

Couldn’t agree more tops…

[rikster]

To a large extent, Trump/Vance were right in what they did. Curbing expansion of Russia also means curbing expansion of NATO to Russia's borders. That fuck up was made three years ago with talk of admitting Ukraine to NATO.

It sucks for Ukraine, but the world, as is life, is not fair. At some point the war needs to stop and throwing more money and arms at the situation will only prolong the war.

Its fish or cut bait and Trump has decided it is time to cut bait while many in the world still want to keep fishing. We'll see what their resolve is as the motor needs gas and and Ukraine is running out of chum for the waters.

Sounds like Russian talking points...

[5thhorseman]

The US has a right to withdraw support of course. And if the cost is more than they can afford without adding to the deficit, then perhaps withdrawing is the right choice.

It's the throwing of Zelensky under the bus that's so loathsome.

[Topper]

https://x.com/PapiTrumpo/status/1895562503230550018

[JelloPuddingPop]

Now that we're all thinking about Trump and Zelensky, it seems like a good time to remember that Trump's first impeachment was all about Ukraine and Zelensky as well.

Trump was accused in 2019, prior to the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, of holding up $400 million in Congressionally approved military aid and withholding an previously extended invitation from the White House for Zelensky to visit. He did this to try to force Zelensky to,

- Announce an investigation into Joe Biden, Trump's most likely opponent in the upcoming 2020 presidential campaign and,
- Promote a conspiracy theory that it was Ukraine and not Russia who was behind an attempt to influence the 2016 presidential election for Trump.

In addition, in 2019, the House was conducting an inquiry to see if Trump had solicited foreign help for his 2020 presidential campaign and Trump was accused of obstructing the inquiry by instructing his administration officials to ignore subpoenas for testimony and documents.

Once the impeachment was voted upon, the trial was conducted in the Senate. Notably, the Republican majority in the Senate refused all attempts by the Democrats to present any evidence at all in the trial and Trump was acquitted on all charges by the same Republican majority.

Funny how recent history keeps looping back to the same issues over and over again, isn't it?

[Per]

I think the Z man is toast now.

Look for Zaluzhny to replace him soon.

Kaja Kallas, the EU high representative for foreign affairs and security, made another call.
She says this shows that the Free World needs a new leader.

Trump is causing a rift in the transatlantic connection.
He completely ignores the European position and only wants to get in bed with Putin.

Pretty much every European leader has publicly stated their support for Zelensky, following the ambush in the white house.

The question is if Europe (in this matter the UK and the EU agree) can go it alone.
Unfortunately we believed that Russia was becoming a normal country and have pretty much halved military spending since the cold war ended. We should have reacted sooner, because the signals were there, seeing the Russian brutality in Chechnya, Syria, Georgia and now Ukraine. Now the barbarians are at the gate and we are not prepared.

[Per]

I think they did meet him privately, that was just the presser I think. Zelensky couldn't hold it together though, lol. He's not well suited to the job.

Zelensky stood up for his country when that douchebag Vance attacked him like a rabid dog.

All of Europe is appalled at the disrespectful behavior by the Americans.

Ukraine has been invaded by an aggressive dictator that wants to erase them from the map, and Trump is blaming the victim and trying to blackmail them out of their possessions.

Disgraceful. His old mob ties are showing.

[Megaterio Llamas]

I think the Z man is toast now.

Look for Zaluzhny to replace him soon.

Kaja Kallas, the EU high representative for foreign affairs and security, made another call.
She says this shows that the Free World needs a new leader.

Trump is causing a rift in the transatlantic connection.
He completely ignores the European position and only wants to get in bed with Putin.

Pretty much every European leader has publicly stated their support for Zelensky, following the ambush in the white house.

The question is if Europe (in this matter the UK and the EU agree) can go it alone.
Unfortunately we believed that Russia was becoming a normal country and have pretty much halved military spending since the cold war ended. We should have reacted sooner, because the signals were there, seeing the Russian brutality in Chechnya, Syria, Georgia and now Ukraine. Now the barbarians are at the gate and we are not prepared.

I agree with all of this.

Good luck Per.

[Megaterio Llamas]

I think they did meet him privately, that was just the presser I think. Zelensky couldn't hold it together though, lol. He's not well suited to the job.

Zelensky stood up for his country when that douchebag Vance attacked him like a rabid dog.

All of Europe is appalled at the disrespectful behavior by the Americans.

Ukraine has been invaded by an aggressive dictator that wants to erase them from the map, and Trump is blaming the victim and trying to blackmail them out of their possessions.

Disgraceful. His old mob ties are showing.

This isn't what I saw Per. Pretty much saw the opposite, it's preobably a Rorsccach test of sorts. No foreign leader has ever behaved the way Zelensky did in the Oval Office, that was a piece of history. From what I see Americans are very upset and Z is likely a dead mnan walking. I do think the Americans set this whole thing up though so they could walk away from this whole mess.

You Europeans will in all probability have the opportunity to support him by yourselves though I have no idea what your going to send them in the way of weapons.The British Storm Shadlw and the French SCALP missiles don't work without US mapping coordinates. Are you going to ask the Russians or the Chinese to use theirs? I talk to Americans a lot and they're fed up with the whole trans Atlantic situation and want to walk away from it.They don't like Europeans very much anymore and don't see the upside in providing security for them.They travel to Europe and they understand that Europeans don't like or respect them and live better than they do in many ways thanks to the free defense. Get ready for conflict on that front I think, changing times.

But yeah, Mafia Don lol. That's definitely his New York style. He will probably cut off aid and weapons deliveries now and get Elon Musk to turn off Starlink. Might even put out a hit on that little fucker

Judge Napolitano discussed the event with former CIA Larry Johnson and Ray McGovern: https://www.youtube.com/live/laUulwxQ8j ... dE40AKW9NP

The Duran https://www.youtube.com/live/mG2dTDIGja ... 71ONBcrd7k

[Per]

18 European leaders will meet with Zelensky in London tomorrow.
And they won’t interrupt him mid sentence like Douchebag Vance.
I think the Americans were afraid to let him speak, because they know he is eloquent.

I think the whole thing was a scripted setup that they had agreed on with Moscow.
Preferrably they would have had Zelensky on his knees, begging for mercy, but he stood his ground.

It is unfortunate, but the transatlantic alliance seems to be in tatters now, which is what Putin has wanted all along.
It is quite possible that the rules based world order will fall apart as well.

Well played, Vlad.

[Megaterio Llamas]

I think you're right Per. The post WW2 order is likely on life support. Though there are still Atrlanticists in America, just not in power at the moment.

You can always hope for a Democratic party resurgence I guess.

Here is the debacle unedited and in full for anyone interested. https://x.com/lopatonok/status/1895633158202409049

[Topper]

Ukraine has been loosing territory for six months, the gains they made into Russian territory have been reversed and then some. They are out of man power throwing new untrained conscripts to the front as cannon fodder.

The blame lies on the west and Biden for their reserved, half hearted initial response and allowing the attrition to fester for three years. The time to act was three years ago. The Vietcong are closing in on Saigon and Trump is trying to broker a peace before helicopters are lifting nationals from the roofs of embassies.

At this point it no longer matters who threw the first punch, it is do you want a hospital bed and live or a slide in the morgue?

[Topper]

Apparently the shock jock reporter who asked if Zelinski owns a suit is banging MTG. This is pond scum on the swamp.

[rikster]

I think they did meet him privately, that was just the presser I think. Zelensky couldn't hold it together though, lol. He's not well suited to the job.

Zelensky stood up for his country when that douchebag Vance attacked him like a rabid dog.

All of Europe is appalled at the disrespectful behavior by the Americans.

Ukraine has been invaded by an aggressive dictator that wants to erase them from the map, and Trump is blaming the victim and trying to blackmail them out of their possessions.

Disgraceful. His old mob ties are showing.

This isn't what I saw Per. Pretty much saw the opposite, it's preobably a Rorsccach test of sorts. No foreign leader has ever behaved the way Zelensky did in the Oval Office, that was a piece of history. From what I see Americans are very upset and Z is likely a dead mnan walking. I do think the Americans set this whole thing up though so they could walk away from this whole mess.

You Europeans will in all probability have the opportunity to support him by yourselves though I have no idea what your going to send them in the way of weapons.The British Storm Shadlw and the French SCALP missiles don't work without US mapping coordinates. Are you going to ask the Russians or the Chinese to use theirs? I talk to Americans a lot and they're fed up with the whole trans Atlantic situation and want to walk away from it.They don't like Europeans very much anymore and don't see the upside in providing security for them.They travel to Europe and they understand that Europeans don't like or respect them and live better than they do in many ways thanks to the free defense. Get ready for conflict on that front I think, changing times.

But yeah, Mafia Don lol. That's definitely his New York style. He will probably cut off aid and weapons deliveries now and get Elon Musk to turn off Starlink. Might even put out a hit on that little fucker

Judge Napolitano discussed the event with former CIA Larry Johnson and Ray McGovern: https://www.youtube.com/live/laUulwxQ8j ... dE40AKW9NP

The Duran https://www.youtube.com/live/mG2dTDIGja ... 71ONBcrd7k

There is much commentary taking a 180 opinion to what the former CIA agents have...

I don't think we should draw any conclusions regarding a long term shift in policy, I see it more as a personal payback by Trump and one that he has been longing to make...

Russia bailed his ass out financialy in the 1980's and he desires to continue doing business with Russia which means dealing with Putin...

Russia bailed his political ass in the 2016 by interfering in the elections is a significant way....I read the Mueller Report and it is shocking the extent the Russians went thru to hand the Presidency to Trump...

Zelensky had an opportunity to bail his political ass in 2020 but refused which Trump is still upset over...

To make matters worse, Trump has created a cult within the US political system which is allowing him to extract revenge on Zalensky and has assembled a base that is ready to do whatever it takes to protect him so you have 2 polar opposite conversations going on within the Capital...the ones in private and the ones in public with fear causing the underground talk....

I also don't think what happened in the Oval office is anything but a step towards an agreement..At the end of the day Trump and Vance had/have an opportunity to make whole their countries contribution to the defence of Ukraine which is something Trump wants/needs to brag about and is looking at these peace talks as a legacy....

In addition, while Musk and DOGE are claiming billions of dollars in savings the actual amount is a fraction of that amount and it is already hiring back many of the workers it terminated to come up with their $ savings...

So walking away from billions of dollars from the Ukraines in the form of a rare earth mineral agreement is a mistake on a number of fronts..badly needed revenue to help finance the record spending that Trump wants to make and a commodity that is badly needed....

If Trump doesn't find a way to save grace and close this deal, it will be used as ammunition for the opposition which will haunt the Republicans for a number of elections cycles...

He promised to end the war on Day 1, not only did he not end the war it took the Europeans to end it, but he also had an opportunity to bring in far more revenue than DOGE has been able to cut and provide the American military and high tech industry minerals that they badly need ...

And if the Europeans get the mineral deal? What an embarrasment for Trump which he will quickly blame Vance for...