2024 Offseason - moving forward

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UWSaint
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Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by UWSaint »

Cousin Strawberry wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 11:29 am This is the main issue this summer. Is QH a Norris winning defenseman because he finally got the right partner or is it more to do with timing and/or his development.

First half Hronek is a 7-8+/yr dman, second half is more like a 4-5/yr.
It is likely "both" more than one or the other. He developed *and* he got a high caliber partner.

Count me in the camp that thinks Hronek is a special player. To be sure, the points more or less disappeared in the second half (and playoffs), but I think its completely wrong to think of Hronek's value in terms of points predmoninately. I thought his overall game continued to be good, and consistently so. While Zadorov (as an example) was noticeable for loud plays, Hronek's game suppressed "events" in the defensive zone and gave the Canucks every option for zone exits when he and QH were one the ice. Very good skating, very good gap control, excellent passer. Controlled zone exits have been the Canucks achilles heel for the Green and Boudreau eras. This is part personnel driven, and part system (I've written here many times about how collapsing makes zone exits difficult, and this is the tradeoff for minimizing quality chances). But Hronek was a huge part of that "personnel" change. And as we saw the Canucks revert to the "get it into the neutral zone and that's enough" mentality in the D-zone during the playoffs, you know who rarely got pinned for long shifts, rarely panicked under pressure, moved his feet when he got the puck, dumped out rarely? Hronek and Hughes. You know who made zone entries (by the bad guys) hard? Hronek and Hughes.

Soucy, Zadorov, Myers, they all played pretty well in the playoffs. But there's a low ceiling on their games. Soucy is "make the safest play," Myers has become that after years of Jovo-like panic -- and that's to his credit. And Z, well, he's more complicated; but none are more than 4-5 defensemen.
Filip Hronek is a 2-3, and he's young, just entering his peak seasons (and the past two seasons are his best two -- he's moving in the right direction). He's what the Canucks needed for years, hoped for with OEL, and got with Hronek. That's very valuable. There just aren't many players like that. And the problem with not signing him (or more realistically, qualifying and trading or trading before qualification window) is that what he brings is what solved (or addressed) so many of the problems the Canucks had and made them tons more dangerous. What Z and Soucy addressed was a different problem -- they helped to minimize types of dangers other teams could impose on the Canucks. (Hronek did that too, though in a different way).
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Megaterio Llamas
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Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Megaterio Llamas »

^^Outstanding UW, that's generally the way I assess our blueline priorities as well.

FWIW word is that Hronek was playing through an elbow injury for the second half and playoffs.

As I mentioned yesterday, Hronek and Myers are the two familiar faces I would want back for next season.
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Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

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UWSaint wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 1:20 pm
Cousin Strawberry wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 11:29 am This is the main issue this summer. Is QH a Norris winning defenseman because he finally got the right partner or is it more to do with timing and/or his development.

First half Hronek is a 7-8+/yr dman, second half is more like a 4-5/yr.
UW's scouting report on Hronek.
Yeah, that was a great take UW. Balanced and pointing out the little things (as always).

Just out of curiosity (not to force you into the armchair GM conversation), were you Rutherford and/or Allvin, what would your best offer be in regards to retaining Hronek's services next season and beyond?
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Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Hockey Widow »

Paying Hronek 7.5-8 per may seem steep now but the contract will age well imho. Hughes will get his 11.6-12.5 when he is due regardless.
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Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by donlever »

Megaterio Llamas wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 1:54 pm Hronek

Elbow

Injury
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Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Meds »

Megaterio Llamas wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 1:54 pm ^^Outstanding UW, that's generally the way I assess our blueline priorities as well.

FWIW word is that Hronek was playing through an elbow injury for the second half and playoffs.

As I mentioned yesterday, Hronek and Myers are the two familiar faces I would want back for next season.
The second HALF!!??

IF this is true then the Canucks management and coaching staff should be seriously questioned regarding their player management.

IF Pettersson actually has a knee injury (tendinitis) and Hronek actually has this elbow injury, then why the hell were we not resting our "1C" and 2D prior to the playoffs? That's just asinine.
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Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Hockey Widow »

Mëds wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 6:02 pm
Megaterio Llamas wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 1:54 pm ^^Outstanding UW, that's generally the way I assess our blueline priorities as well.

FWIW word is that Hronek was playing through an elbow injury for the second half and playoffs.

As I mentioned yesterday, Hronek and Myers are the two familiar faces I would want back for next season.
The second HALF!!??

IF this is true then the Canucks management and coaching staff should be seriously questioned regarding their player management.

IF Pettersson actually has a knee injury (tendinitis) and Hronek actually has this elbow injury, then why the hell were we not resting our "1C" and 2D prior to the playoffs? That's just asinine.
If Pettersson had been placed on LTIR just imagine what Allvin could have done with that cap space at the TDD. Then we activate Pettersson for the playoffs. Of course we were still fighting for seeding at the time.
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Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Meds »

Hockey Widow wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 6:12 pm
Mëds wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 6:02 pm
Megaterio Llamas wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 1:54 pm ^^Outstanding UW, that's generally the way I assess our blueline priorities as well.

FWIW word is that Hronek was playing through an elbow injury for the second half and playoffs.

As I mentioned yesterday, Hronek and Myers are the two familiar faces I would want back for next season.
The second HALF!!??

IF this is true then the Canucks management and coaching staff should be seriously questioned regarding their player management.

IF Pettersson actually has a knee injury (tendinitis) and Hronek actually has this elbow injury, then why the hell were we not resting our "1C" and 2D prior to the playoffs? That's just asinine.
If Pettersson had been placed on LTIR just imagine what Allvin could have done with that cap space at the TDD. Then we activate Pettersson for the playoffs. Of course we were still fighting for seeding at the time.
Yep. I say screw the seeding, we were going to make the playoffs at the ASG.....I would have preferred sacrificing home-ice advantage and coming home up 2-0 rather than getting splits in both series proving that home-ice advantage is really a farce.
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Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Megaterio Llamas »

Mëds wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 2:12 pm
UWSaint wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 1:20 pm
Cousin Strawberry wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 11:29 am This is the main issue this summer. Is QH a Norris winning defenseman because he finally got the right partner or is it more to do with timing and/or his development.

First half Hronek is a 7-8+/yr dman, second half is more like a 4-5/yr.
UW's scouting report on Hronek.
Yeah, that was a great take UW. Balanced and pointing out the little things (as always).

Just out of curiosity (not to force you into the armchair GM conversation), were you Rutherford and/or Allvin, what would your best offer be in regards to retaining Hronek's services next season and beyond?
Yeah, I couldn't tell ya Mëds.

Of course we do have this longstanding thing with how we treat injuries around here.
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Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

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The Canucks currently have over 23 million in cap space. According to Cap Friendly, Philly has about 0.5 million. They are in the biggest cap crunch in the league, but you know there are lots of teams wanting to sign FAs that will be dying to move out cap space and willing to give up good players to do it. The longer Allvin sits on his hands without overpaying players, the more I like it. Weird to see the Canucks sitting in the catbird seat with cap space for a change. We have no idea what kinds of offers he’ll be seeing, but I’m not too nervous that he and Rutherford will make too many mistakes.
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Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

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Hockey Widow wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 6:12 pm
Mëds wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 6:02 pm
Megaterio Llamas wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 1:54 pm ^^Outstanding UW, that's generally the way I assess our blueline priorities as well.

FWIW word is that Hronek was playing through an elbow injury for the second half and playoffs.

As I mentioned yesterday, Hronek and Myers are the two familiar faces I would want back for next season.
The second HALF!!??

IF this is true then the Canucks management and coaching staff should be seriously questioned regarding their player management.

IF Pettersson actually has a knee injury (tendinitis) and Hronek actually has this elbow injury, then why the hell were we not resting our "1C" and 2D prior to the playoffs? That's just asinine.
If Pettersson had been placed on LTIR just imagine what Allvin could have done with that cap space at the TDD. Then we activate Pettersson for the playoffs. Of course we were still fighting for seeding at the time.
Vegas uses this to their advantage often much to the anger of others but it’s not cheap. Hertl cost them a 1st rd pick and two third rd picks. Are you willing to pay this much to take advantage of cap space created by moving a player to LITR? It didn’t work for Vegas this year. A big hit to your futures. People bitchec about the assets lost for Lindholm, not sure this would fly on top of that.
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Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Picker of Cherries wrote: Thu May 30, 2024 8:56 pm The Canucks currently have over 23 million in cap space. According to Cap Friendly, Philly has about 0.5 million. They are in the biggest cap crunch in the league, but you know there are lots of teams wanting to sign FAs that will be dying to move out cap space and willing to give up good players to do it. The longer Allvin sits on his hands without overpaying players, the more I like it. Weird to see the Canucks sitting in the catbird seat with cap space for a change. We have no idea what kinds of offers he’ll be seeing, but I’m not too nervous that he and Rutherford will make too many mistakes.
The cap space is a mirage, it will disappear soon. Gotta be careful what we do this year regarding Boeser next summer and Hughes soon after regarding “long term” contracts. I imagine Hughes will be getting Pettersson money, even more. I know idiots out there fancy trading our best playoff performer - Boeser for futures but how the fuck does that solve our current top 6 winger position that is putrid beyond Boeser? We’re gonna have to pay someone of high quality to play the wings in the top 6 eventually or multiple wingers in which we seem to need more of.

What Allvin does with the cap this summer will make or break this franchise moving forward. He needs to tread carefully here. Instead of pre-jacking
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Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

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So people who have a different opinion than yours are idiots.

Nice.

No wonder traffic here sucks.
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Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

Post by 5thhorseman »

I have to agree with Dude here, before the playoffs we were all keen to see who would rise to the occasion and Boeser certainly did, so why would anyone want to trade him?
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Re: 2024 Offseason - moving forward

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donlever wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 7:08 am So people who have a different opinion than yours are idiots.

Nice.

No wonder traffic here sucks.
Your collar is getting awfully stiff in your old age Don. Paint the kettle black much? You should listen to yourself. So what if I disagree with others regarding trading Boeser in a passionate way, I think it’s borderline idiotic, big fucking deal. I’ve been proven wrong, yes. But for now, I’m gonna stand by it based on playoff performance and how awfully thin we are on the wings in the top 6. You’re gonna have to pay the piper no matter how you slice it if you want a legitimate top 6 winger. I may feel different had Boeser sucked in post season but the guy obviously brings it.
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