RoyalDude wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:12 am
Buffalo, NYR, LA, Anaheim and Colorado all have two first round picks in the upcoming draft. Who of those is willing to let the later one go? It’s Buffalo and Colorado IMO they are done with the rebuild, to much pressure to make post-season, the other 3 teams are starting their rebuilds. What do Colorado and Buffalo need and do they need goaltending? Both those teams are stacked at the forward position
Do we actually think Jimbo will trade for another 1st? This is a guy who has actually made 1 less pick than he was supposed to over the last 5 seasons, while supposedly rebuilding, even while being handed an extra pick by Gillis and one more for Torts. He doesn’t like extra picksespite what he says - actions speak much louder than words. Why would he change his tune now?
My guess is he will make another ‘hockey trade’ or two, probably for another Goldy type and hope to catch lightning in a bottle, and then try to sign some FAs. I’ve seen nothing in the last 3 seasons to make me think he’s going to go out and try to secure more picks, though I sure would welcome it if he does.
He's got 9 picks in this year's draft.
And by gum you best believe him if he says he's gonna try for another 1st!
9 picks this year, you are correct, did I say otherwise?
Did I say you said otherwise?
You were typing about how Yimmy "has made 1 less pick than he was supposed to over the last 5 seasons".
So I thought I'd add... for the viewing audience... that Yumpin' Yim has 2 extra picks in this year's draft.
Loosen the bone Wilma!
Diehard1 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:10 am
Fact is, Jimbo has made exactly 1 trade in his 5 years with the team where he got a pick straight up for a player - Bieksa in 2015. That's a long time ago and it sure seems like his strategy has changed since then.
Lack straight up for a 3rd +7th.
McNally straight up for a 7th.
Bieksa straight up for a 2nd (as you mentioned).
That's 3, but why does it have to be players straight up for picks?
In all of those trades he came out with an extra pick or a massive pick upgrade
... and doesn't that address the essence of your argument?
(that he doesn't care much about upgrading the team's position in drafts)
If not well I'm putting things into a more accurate perspective for the viewing audience...
Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:12 pm
by Cousin Strawberry
Looks like were picking somewhere 9 through 12 plus the lottery winners bumping us down into the 12 to 15 slots. Shitty
Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:23 pm
by Richardstroker69
Uncle dans leg wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:12 pm
Looks like were picking somewhere 9 through 12 plus the lottery winners bumping us down into the 12 to 15 slots. Shitty
Nah, bettman gonna reward us for not trying to tank, we’re getting a lottery pick
Uncle dans leg wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:12 pm
Looks like were picking somewhere 9 through 12 plus the lottery winners bumping us down into the 12 to 15 slots. Shitty
Nah, bettman gonna reward us for not trying to tank, we’re getting a lottery pick
Uncle dans leg wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:12 pm
Looks like were picking somewhere 9 through 12 plus the lottery winners bumping us down into the 12 to 15 slots. Shitty
Nah, bettman gonna reward us for not trying to tank, we’re getting a lottery pick
Uncle dans leg wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:12 pm
Looks like were picking somewhere 9 through 12 plus the lottery winners bumping us down into the 12 to 15 slots. Shitty
Nah, bettman gonna reward us for not trying to tank, we’re getting a lottery pick
For that plus $50M Aquadollars?
Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver
Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:33 pm
by Mickey107
Uncle dans leg wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:12 pm
Looks like were picking somewhere 9 through 12 plus the lottery winners bumping us down into the 12 to 15 slots. Shitty
Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:50 am
by Madcombinepilot
Diehard1 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:10 am
Jimbo is allergic to trading players for picks, he loves his reclamation projects (Baertschi, Pouliot, Etem, Vey, Pedan, Larsen, etc.) and he loves trading picks to get them. Pick for Baertschi (I'd trade Sven for Andersson any day of the week now), a pick and player for Pouliot (oops), pick and player for Etem (oops), pick for Vey (oops), pick and player for Pedan (oops), pick for Larsen (oops) - notice a pattern? I'm sure I missed a few in there as well, but the fact is Jimbo loves trading picks for players.
Fact is, Jimbo has made exactly 1 trade in his 5 years with the team where he got a pick straight up for a player - Bieksa in 2015. That's a long time ago and it sure seems like his strategy has changed since then.
Again, happy to be proven wrong but given past history it's unlikely.
Were you not one of the guys posting about how it was wrong to let Grabner and McCann go? (I could be wrong, just asking). Was not The other GM's hoping to catch lightning in a bottle with them? When a player doesn't work out for one team (for whatever reason: personality or system clash, maturity level -some guys don't grow up until they are traded a couple times- personal, coaching, or staff issue.. whatever) and that player isn't living up to the current teams expectations, the player is moved and labeled a reclamation project. Nothing wrong with that. Jimbro needed to fill the roster with younger guys, and reclamation projects are the way to do it. Sometimes they work out, sometimes not. Just like drafting.
I don't mind when a GM spends picks on these guys so long as it fills the situational need. This team was handcuffed with contracts, and JB moved as many as he could each season, while refilling the farm as fast as he could. Did they all work out? Nope. They never will.
What I liked about him filling an immediate need and spending the picks to do it, is he recaptured those lost picks in a non traditional fashion -- NCAA non drafted kids and overseas signings. Some teams sign 1 or 2 guys every 3 or 4 years, JB has made a habit of grabbing up non drafted guys (seems like 1-2 a year) to replace those picks, has done fairly well doing it, And never gets credit for it. These unsigned kids are not all going to make it to the show either, but an unsigned kid is the same as another 2nd-5th round pick in my books. When you have an eye for young talent like JB does, Same chance of working out.
I am a lot less worried about 'lost picks' than others, I guess
Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver
Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:23 pm
by DonCherry4PM
Madcombinepilot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:50 amThese unsigned kids are not all going to make it to the show either, but an unsigned kid is the same as another 2nd-5th round pick in my books. When you have an eye for young talent like JB does, Same chance of working out.
I am a lot less worried about 'lost picks' than others, I guess
I would agree that JB should be given credit for signing undrafted guys for sure. I strongly disagree that they have the same chance of turning out as any 2nd-5th round pick (even "when you have an eye for [young developing] talent like JB does").
That's like saying one has the same chance of mining gold from tailings as from an ore body (Topper can correct me on the terminology usage in my metaphor). Finding a player that will 1) make the bigs and 2) be an impact player is much easier to do from a body of players that have not yet been picked over by the league than it is from a body of leftovers.
Even JB has indicated that picks are "like gold", which apparently explains why he has been unable to average any more than the allotted number of picks over the last 5 years [we will see if he can manage to hold onto the couple extras he has this year until draft day].
Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver
Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:14 am
by Hockey Widow
So we finish 23, slotting in at the 9th pick before the lottery results.
Take it away Dude. at least this year we don't have to wait 2 months to find out where we are picking.
Madcombinepilot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:50 amThese unsigned kids are not all going to make it to the show either, but an unsigned kid is the same as another 2nd-5th round pick in my books. When you have an eye for young talent like JB does, Same chance of working out.
I am a lot less worried about 'lost picks' than others, I guess
I would agree that JB should be given credit for signing undrafted guys for sure. I strongly disagree that they have the same chance of turning out as any 2nd-5th round pick (even "when you have an eye for [young developing] talent like JB does").
That's like saying one has the same chance of mining gold from tailings as from an ore body (Topper can correct me on the terminology usage in my metaphor). Finding a player that will 1) make the bigs and 2) be an impact player is much easier to do from a body of players that have not yet been picked over by the league than it is from a body of leftovers.
Even JB has indicated that picks are "like gold", which apparently explains why he has been unable to average any more than the allotted number of picks over the last 5 years [we will see if he can manage to hold onto the couple extras he has this year until draft day].
Not all picks are the same, and as frustrated as some are for Benning not acquiring more picks I get as frustrated that some think a late round pick is better than a player who can slot into the lineup today and play for a team which was bankrupt of talent and hope...
The team needs more elite players in it's lineup, and those players will not come from mid to late round draft picks...
They won't.....
Mid to late round picks take longer to develop and only the needle in the haystack picks ever see the NHL, let alone have a productive NHL career...
More realistically their upside is hoped to be as a productive minor leaguer....
If you total the draft positions of the teams current core group of players it totals 44 or an average of the 11th pick overall...
Horvat at 9
Pettersson at 5
Boeser at 23
Hughes at 7
Even our goaltending tandem were taken very early in the second rounds;
Markstrom at 31
Demko at 36
If you look at the second tier;
Virtanen at 6
Pearson at 30
Baertschi at 13
Gaudette at 149
Stecher undrafted
I'm not in the camp that the team needs to make the playoffs next year, I'd be just as happy if the team drafts in the lottery position the next 2 drafts ....
I think the team needs at least another 2 first tier core players, afterwards it should be ready talent wise and age wise to move into Cup contender status...
Take care...
Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver
Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:07 am
by Chef Boi RD
Draft a forward, we should be able to land a top 6 forward with the 9th pick. Our D is in better shape than our top 6 forward group, especially with Juolevi on the way plus Woo. But something tells me we are drafting one of Soderstrom or Broberg. If that’s the case the top 6 will have to be fixed by trade or signing and I don’t have a ton of faith in Jim in that department.
Madcombinepilot wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:50 amThese unsigned kids are not all going to make it to the show either, but an unsigned kid is the same as another 2nd-5th round pick in my books. When you have an eye for young talent like JB does, Same chance of working out.
I am a lot less worried about 'lost picks' than others, I guess
I would agree that JB should be given credit for signing undrafted guys for sure. I strongly disagree that they have the same chance of turning out as any 2nd-5th round pick (even "when you have an eye for [young developing] talent like JB does").
That's like saying one has the same chance of mining gold from tailings as from an ore body (Topper can correct me on the terminology usage in my metaphor). Finding a player that will 1) make the bigs and 2) be an impact player is much easier to do from a body of players that have not yet been picked over by the league than it is from a body of leftovers.
Even JB has indicated that picks are "like gold", which apparently explains why he has been unable to average any more than the allotted number of picks over the last 5 years [we will see if he can manage to hold onto the couple extras he has this year until draft day].
Not all picks are the same, and as frustrated as some are for Benning not acquiring more picks I get as frustrated that some think a late round pick is better than a player who can slot into the lineup today and play for a team which was bankrupt of talent and hope...
The team needs more elite players in it's lineup, and those players will not come from mid to late round draft picks...
They won't.....
Mid to late round picks take longer to develop and only the needle in the haystack picks ever see the NHL, let alone have a productive NHL career...
More realistically their upside is hoped to be as a productive minor leaguer....
If you total the draft positions of the teams current core group of players it totals 44 or an average of the 11th pick overall...
Horvat at 9
Pettersson at 5
Boeser at 23
Hughes at 7
Even our goaltending tandem were taken very early in the second rounds;
Markstrom at 31
Demko at 36
If you look at the second tier;
Virtanen at 6
Pearson at 30
Baertschi at 13
Gaudette at 149
Stecher undrafted
I'm not in the camp that the team needs to make the playoffs next year, I'd be just as happy if the team drafts in the lottery position the next 2 drafts ....
I think the team needs at least another 2 first tier core players, afterwards it should be ready talent wise and age wise to move into Cup contender status...
Take care...
I get the argument regarding the low value of late picks but arent these college players we keep signing kids that went undrafted?
To strengthen your point (and docs i guess...dammit! ), you can reinforce your prospect pool with the college signings to compensate for having to throw in later round picks in trades...thus mitigating the loss of potentially finding the odd needle in those haystacks.
RoyalDude wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:12 am
Buffalo, NYR, LA, Anaheim and Colorado all have two first round picks in the upcoming draft. Who of those is willing to let the later one go? It’s Buffalo and Colorado IMO they are done with the rebuild, to much pressure to make post-season, the other 3 teams are starting their rebuilds. What do Colorado and Buffalo need and do they need goaltending? Both those teams are stacked at the forward position
Do we actually think Jimbo will trade for another 1st? This is a guy who has actually made 1 less pick than he was supposed to over the last 5 seasons, while supposedly rebuilding, even while being handed an extra pick by Gillis and one more for Torts. He doesn’t like extra picksespite what he says - actions speak much louder than words. Why would he change his tune now?
My guess is he will make another ‘hockey trade’ or two, probably for another Goldy type and hope to catch lightning in a bottle, and then try to sign some FAs. I’ve seen nothing in the last 3 seasons to make me think he’s going to go out and try to secure more picks, though I sure would welcome it if he does.
He's got 9 picks in this year's draft.
And by gum you best believe him if he says he's gonna try for another 1st!
9 picks this year, you are correct, did I say otherwise?
Did I say you said otherwise?
You were typing about how Yimmy "has made 1 less pick than he was supposed to over the last 5 seasons".
So I thought I'd add... for the viewing audience... that Yumpin' Yim has 2 extra picks in this year's draft.
Loosen the bone Wilma!
Diehard1 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:10 am
Fact is, Jimbo has made exactly 1 trade in his 5 years with the team where he got a pick straight up for a player - Bieksa in 2015. That's a long time ago and it sure seems like his strategy has changed since then.
Lack straight up for a 3rd +7th.
McNally straight up for a 7th.
Bieksa straight up for a 2nd (as you mentioned).
That's 3, but why does it have to be players straight up for picks?
In all of those trades he came out with an extra pick or a massive pick upgrade
... and doesn't that address the essence of your argument?
(that he doesn't care much about upgrading the team's position in drafts)
If not well I'm putting things into a more accurate perspective for the viewing audience...
Interesting - so if he upgrades some picks while downgrading more, gets 2 free picks that he had nothing to do with and is still down a pick overall since he started 5 years ago that’s evidence he wants more picks. Weird logic but not unexpected.
The point of trading a player for picks is Benning continues to want to make ‘hockey trades’ (his words) meaning player for player while shunning picks during a rebuild. It’s his biggest downfall as a GM IMHO, his lack of creativity in understanding how to build a team.
Re: 2019 NHL ENTRY DRAFT - Vancouver
Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:25 am
by Cousin Strawberry
Diehard1 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:21 am. It’s his biggest downfall as a GM IMHO, his lack of creativity in understanding how to build a team.
Yet here we are...a stable full of up and coming stars with plenty more developing in the wings.
Thats pretty well the textbook definition of a rebuilding team dude.
), you can reinforce your prospect pool with the college signings to compensate for having to throw in later round picks in trades...thus mitigating the loss of potentially finding the odd needle in those haystacks.