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It seems that this move is Dubas' line in the sand for Marner - we have zero flexibility, all we can give you is the LTIR space, $10.55 mil.

Marner wants Matthews money. He also wants Matthews' term.

There is no way now for him to get Mathews money from the Leaves. He can get Matthews money from other teams on an offer sheet, but they won't give him Matthews term (because of the numbers of picks being sacrificed).

BigTuna wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:29 am

Strangelove wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 6:03 pm

BigTuna wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:40 pm

Strangelove wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:45 pm

BigTuna wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:32 pm BTW, LTIR can be used in the summer.

And your point is?

Tuna: "Leaves acquired 5.2 million extra today in cap"

So LTIR is not cap space?

viewtopic.php?p=349242#p349242

They did not gain "extra cap" you ninny!

Yesterday they had $4M in cap space... now they have negative $734,699

(they are over the cap now)

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs

But yeah, they have Clarkson's $5.25M they can put on LTIR.

Which means, when all is said and done, they can break even cap space wise.

Tuna: "Leaves acquired 5.2 million extra today in cap"

"It's simple, just trade for all the LTIR guys, they give you extra cap space!"

You don't want to acknowlege their cap is 92 million this upcoming season?

FFS I feel like I'm explaining algebra to a gorilla at the Toronto zoo...

ESQ wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:53 am

Strangelove wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:24 pm
Meaning they're going to match any offersheet in my opinion.

If there is a monster offersheet they'll just have to trade a forward like Johnsson/Kapanen/Nylander.

Can they match? It'll put them $11-12 million over the cap, exceeding the 10% off-season limit.

I would think this means they are for sure not resigning Marner until the season starts and they can use LTIR.

No, they could sign Marner today actually.

You can exceed the 10% off-season limit if you use off-season LTIR.

BUT... well it gets very complicated.

See, off-season cap is different than regular-season cap.

Off-season cap includes ALL (more than 23) one-way contracts and a percentage of two-way contracts.

(as well as all the regular buyouts/retention/recapture)

And then after that you can use off-season LTIR on certain players.

Leaves could use off-season LTIR on perma-injured Horton and Clarkson

... but they'd have to get special permission from the league to use it on Hymen/Dermott.

We don't know if they have/will receive that permission

... and we don't have all the details on the 7 contracts Leaves signed today.

And even if we had all the info, does anyone care to do all those calculations?

(I don't, the pundits don't, hell even Capfriendly doesn't)

Clearly though, trading for Clarkson yesterday is connected to signing these 7 today.

Clearly until Clarkson they would have been too vulnerable to a Marner offersheet to sign those 7.

Clarkson's LTIR means they can sign those guys and still match according to the off-season LTIR formula.

Of course on the first day of the regular season they have to switch from off-season LTIR to regular-season LTIR.

So in the end they have to fit Marner's AAV under the regular-season cap.

And like I say, I'll bet there's a deal on the table to trade Kapanen/Johnsson if Marner's contract is over $10.5M.

If I had to guess I'd say they could match at ~ $11M - $13M for the summer as it stands.

There is next to no information on off-season cap + LTIR out there because it almost never happens.

(it was just a coupla years ago we even found out about off-season LTIR)

Using off-season LTIR is a sign a team is in extreme cap hell.

Picking up a contract like Clarkson's while in cap hell is a sign a team is in super duper extreme cap hell.

micky107 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:36 am

BigTuna wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:23 am
Dubas needs to sign 4th liners for 3-4 million, That's the key to great cap management.

Ya man, last year he signed one for 7.

Oh you mean the kids who's never had les than 61 points in afull season?

NO one is giving up 4 1sts for Mitch Marner or any other player and Marner will never sign for less than 10.5 to go elsewhere(And no team will bother as ir will be matched).

He'll be a Leaf for a long-time.

BigTuna wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:28 pm

micky107 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:36 am

BigTuna wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:23 am
Dubas needs to sign 4th liners for 3-4 million, That's the key to great cap management.

Ya man, last year he signed one for 7.

Oh you mean the kids who's never had les than 61 points in afull season?

It's all really quite irrelevant now though isn't it? Dubas bent over gave in and it matters O how many point he gets.
he-he-haw. If your management team was a better judge of character, they may have considered an alternative. But no.
Now look where you are. No magic Marner but a tickled pink Wilieeeeee, who is probably hoping his team-mate cannot be signed so he can
be a bigger attention grabber. yikes; what a mess.

Bette to have JT Miler making 5.3 and give up a first rounder...

BigTuna wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:29 pm NO one is giving up 4 1sts for Mitch Marner or any other player and Marner will never sign for less than 10.5 to go elsewhere(And no team will bother as ir will be matched).

He'll be a Leaf for a long-time.

There are plenty of teams that would give up the four 1st rounders required.

BUT (as Doc is wont to say).....none of them will give them up unless Marner signs for 7 years, and the rumour is that he will not.

Safe to say that the major hurdle holding up him signing with Toronto is also term related. Chances are Dubas is offering him $11M x 8, and Mitch's agent is saying, "Hell No! If you want 8 years you are paying a premium for each UFA year!"

You see Marlin, it sets Mitch up to have to scrap for another big contract at 30 years old, and well he's a winger, and you see, well this guy says it best.....

https://sports.yahoo.com/nhl-teams-slow ... 52251.html

So it's not that Marner will never sign for less than $10.5M to go elsewhere, it's that he won't sign for less than $10.5M anywhere.

Marner will sign with TO but not before he squeezes every available penny out of the team. He wants to be there but is a product of the "me first" culture that johnny PJs and arizona Austin have worked so hard to instill.

One and done Barrie, 5 years to freedom Matthews, 7 million Williom.... Get in line boys...before they can the retard running this disaster

Uncle dans leg wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:59 pm Marner will sign with TO but not before he squeezes every available penny out of the team. He wants to be there but is a product of the "me first" culture that johnny PJs and arizona Austin have worked so hard to instill.

One and done Barrie, 5 years to freedom Matthews, 7 million Williom.... Get in line boys...before they can the retard running this disaster

It's all a disaster!

BigTuna wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:34 pm

Uncle dans leg wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:59 pm Marner will sign with TO but not before he squeezes every available penny out of the team. He wants to be there but is a product of the "me first" culture that johnny PJs and arizona Austin have worked so hard to instill.

One and done Barrie, 5 years to freedom Matthews, 7 million Williom.... Get in line boys...before they can the retard running this disaster

It's all a disaster!

Tuna finally opening the 6th of his 7 chakras

Uncle dans leg wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:59 pm Marner will sign with TO but not before he squeezes every available penny out of the team. He wants to be there but is a product of the "me first" culture that johnny PJs and arizona Austin have worked so hard to instill.

One and done Barrie, 5 years to freedom Matthews, 7 million Williom.... Get in line boys...before they can the retard running this disaster

Yup, Marner's camp has talked to other teams about offersheets.

He no doubt prefers to stay with the Leaves, but his #1 concern is getting as much dough as possible.

And thanks to the Dumbass running the show... he'll get it!

Dumbass has overpaid Tavares, Matthews and Nylander by $2M each per year

... setting Marner up to be next in the overpaid by $2M department.

(Tavares had an unsustainable career year in goals last season)

(Leaf fans agree Matthews is grossly overpaid)

(if Nylander continues with his career stats + wimpy play this is true of him as well)

Dumbass has overpaid Wet Fart Kerfoot, Ceci, Kapanen and Johnsson by $1M each per year.

(Kapanen and Johnsson only had ONE season of decent numbers to negotiate on)

(Wet Fart was sheltered and given prime offensive situations for TWO years and sucks defensively)

(Ceci is just horrible, the hockey world was shocked TO gave him that contract)

Then there's Dumbass' trades/asset management.

He let NHLers JVR, Bozak, Komarov, Carrick and Leivo get away for nothing.

He just dumped an entire stellar 3rd line in Marleau/Kadri/Brown.

He also just dumped three 20+ minute dmen in Gardiner/Hainsey/Zaitsev

... although he added Muzzin/Barrie/Ceci in the process albeit all are pending UFAs.

But in that process he traded away two 1st round picks (!) and 2 of his top 4 prospects in Grundstrom/Durzi.

(he also traded away 2 solid prospects in Borgman and Rosen)

(I'd say that adds up to 4 of their top 7 prospects traded away)

And he's managed to do all of the above in just 14 months with a team that hasn't gotten out of the first round.

It's mind-boggling how horrible Dumbass is.

Even more mind-boggling is how Leafers still sing his praises.

But that will change when the koolaid wears off.

Recall how long it took them to realize the horribleness of Ferguson/Burke/Nonis etc.

Those poor slobs.

Look at Gradin; https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/ ... 07/page-19
The distaste is everywhere..

Tuna in the corner sobbin' 'n wankin' while thinking of how baaaad a gm he has....

Is that some sort of masochistic stimulation where you enjoy the pain Tuner? How can you enjoy this so much?

micky107 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:17 pm Look at Gradin; https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/ ... 07/page-19
The distaste is everywhere..

What a breath of fresh air that Leaves HFboards is compared to the Canucks board!

But someone raised an interesting point - if Marner holds out, due to LTIR and the compressed cap hit of his eventual contract, he could sign an un-matchable offer sheet on Dec 1 that would be below the 4x1sts threshold.

Wouldn't have happened with Nylander because he is so grossly overpaid, but will someone take a flyer on Marner at something under $10.5 and only give up 2x1sts, 2nd and 3rd?

OR , would somebody give Marner his 2-3 years at $8.45 mil and only give up one 1st, one 2nd and one 3rd?