Canucks News N Notes 24-25

[Meds]

In any business they like to refer to in-house conflicts that are in need of being resolved like the Miller/Pettersson as a “conflict resolution”. This is the job of management (middle and/or upper mgmt) to “manage”. I see the whole disaster as a reflection on management with perhaps ownership running interference than I do with the players and coaches themselves. This IMO played a big factor in Tocchets decision. Read between the lines. Couple that with loose lips Rutherford and Allvin’s behaviour, and Palao’s weird as fuck departure, I’m seeing a very toxic organization at the front office level.

You just said you were done with this team.


What kills me among some folks is that NONE of this is on JT or Tocchet. It's Pettersson for sure. And its the current management, because some are still butthurt that previous management got fired.

You're the only one still talking about previous management buds.

You'll have to elaborate on how you think Tocchet fucked this up.

Nobody is absolving JT.

[Meds]

I think the only place I differ with what seems to be the consensus on the board is that many admire Miller for being a "leader" and doing things how they should be done. I think this comes from the fact that good JT is a hell of a player that rises to occasions. But I see Miller as the opposite of a leader. That's because while EP40s failures are not excusable, they are common and they don't generally tear teams apart, especially when the failing player is not one to set a tone for others (either for the good or bad).

I don't disagree with you regarding the part of your post that I clipped. We have heard (from Rutherford iirc) that Miller did try to figure it out and work through the situation. What we have never heard, until some of what filtered out of the season ticket holders meeting, was anything regard to Pettersson outside of his unsatisfactory preparation (off-season presumably).

Please give an example of a failing player who received a max term contract that gobbled up more than 12% of the team's salary cap.

Please give an example of a player who received such a contract despite 6 years of inadequate preparation.

Please give an example of a player who has received such a contract despite NOT being a leader.

The issue is not just EP's failures, the issue is the failures coupled with the commitment from management/ownership. I would say it is very uncommon for a player to fail the way EP has AND receive the contract and commitment that he did.

[Meds]

I think the only place I differ with what seems to be the consensus on the board is that many admire Miller for being a "leader" and doing things how they should be done. I think this comes from the fact that good JT is a hell of a player that rises to occasions. But I see Miller as the opposite of a leader. That's because while EP40s failures are not excusable, they are common and they don't generally tear teams apart, especially when the failing player is not one to set a tone for others (either for the good or bad).

A good leader adapts to his followers. Some leaders look good, but it could be in part because they led a bunch who were relatively easy to lead or who were amenable to that leader's style. Take that same leader and put them in charge of a bunch who don't respond the same way, and they may fall on their face because they have only one mode or style of leadership.

Miller was more of what I would call a 'peer leader', which takes a different approach than someone in Tocchet's or Quinn's shoes. Peer leaders who try to act authoritatively can be seen as bullies. Peer leaders who talk the talk - great if they walk the walk as well, but we've seen times when Miller didn't. I think you're right in that Miller would have been better-served by just leading with his play and shutting up, though that may have just caused him to bottle up his frustrations before blowing up. One can only imagine if he had received the C instead of Quinn.

I think Miller's heart was in the right place, but he evidently did not possess the skillset or mindset to be the kind of peer leader he envisioned for himself. He needs to be led, and told to lead through his play. Maybe it was a mistake to give him an 'A' and mislead him into thinking he's a leader. By those standards, Pettersson shouldn't have it either. Letters are for leaders, and he hasn't shown himself to be one either.

Quinn has shown himself to be a leader. He deserves the letter on his jersey. Myers would qualify as well IMO. Who else, though?

I think you hit the nail on the head Lancer.

I do think that JT was, from an outside observer of games only, a more mature leader from the time Tocchet replaced Boudreau right through the following 2023-24 season. There were very few times where he wasn't giving it 100% in every direction. Some bad reads? Yes, but they didn't result in him quitting on the play like we had see before. But you can't change your stripes overnight, and for him to be respected as a vocal leader needed to see him continue with that consistency for longer than a campaign and change.

What you say about both Pettersson and Miller receiving the "A".....no argument really. However, one has to point out that giving Pettersson the "A" for the 2024 home-opener despite him having shown up to camp completely unprepared was a terrible decision and likely compounded frustration for Miller who had put in the work and showed up ready to build upon last season's success. I mean think about it, you do everything in your power to prepare and succeed, you are trying to lead by example, and the guy who mails it in receives the same "honour" that you do.

Again, this is as much a messaging failure from coaching and management.

Not excusing JT's lack of maturity in his response, but humans are humans.

The other point I'll make is that while JT is a volatile and inconsistent peer leader, Quinn could not be further from that. Hughes is a consummate pro, he has poise, tact, well spoken, clearly thinks before he opens his mouth, puts in all the work (and more) to prepare, walks the talk better than anyone else on the roster, and completely deserving of the "C". While Hughes was fairly neutral in his comments regarding Miller, I thought that he looked less than happy about the trade, and reading between the lines at the end of the season, even Hughes could not get through to Pettersson....."No. There's nothing for me to do."

Myers, who you also mention as being a quality leader, had nothing but praise for JT as well.

So it's back to WTF was management (or ownership) thinking here?

[Cornuck]

The other thing to consider is that the problems had been there for a while. I think it was Allvin in the season ticket holder talks, said that when you're winning (last year), these problems get pushed down. When you're losing, they come to the surface. I'll 'guess' that Miller had the same complaints about certain teammates last season, but wasn't quite as vocal about it. This past year, I'm sure he had a lot more to say.

[Chef Boi RD]

I do find it interesting the timing of Paolo Aqualini’s departure and the comments made about the Aqualini’s wanting to keep Pettersson, combined with Allvin’s comments about “certain” players “commitments” levels or “lack thereof”. It seems to open season on these “certain” young players to pull up their god damned socks. The kid gloves have finally come off and Paolo is apparently selling his share. Oh the timing is juicy!

[Chef Boi RD]

In any business they like to refer to in-house conflicts that are in need of being resolved like the Miller/Pettersson as a “conflict resolution”. This is the job of management (middle and/or upper mgmt) to “manage”. I see the whole disaster as a reflection on management with perhaps ownership running interference than I do with the players and coaches themselves. This IMO played a big factor in Tocchets decision. Read between the lines. Couple that with loose lips Rutherford and Allvin’s behaviour, and Palao’s weird as fuck departure, I’m seeing a very toxic organization at the front office level.

You just said you were done with this team.


What kills me among some folks is that NONE of this is on JT or Tocchet. It's Pettersson for sure. And its the current management, because some are still butthurt that previous management got fired.

Karl, nobody is talking about Elms anymore but you. C’man, put it to bed, go get the Jimmy Special from Sam Remo and a 6 pack of molson malt tall boys and get on the lawn couch and put your feet up.

[Meds]

In any business they like to refer to in-house conflicts that are in need of being resolved like the Miller/Pettersson as a “conflict resolution”. This is the job of management (middle and/or upper mgmt) to “manage”. I see the whole disaster as a reflection on management with perhaps ownership running interference than I do with the players and coaches themselves. This IMO played a big factor in Tocchets decision. Read between the lines. Couple that with loose lips Rutherford and Allvin’s behaviour, and Palao’s weird as fuck departure, I’m seeing a very toxic organization at the front office level.

You just said you were done with this team.


What kills me among some folks is that NONE of this is on JT or Tocchet. It's Pettersson for sure. And its the current management, because some are still butthurt that previous management got fired.

Karl, nobody is talking about Elms anymore but you. C’man, put it to bed, go get the Jimmy Special from Sam Remo and a 6 pack of molson malt tall boys and get on the lawn couch and put your feet up.

And don't forget the Chicago deep dish and pizza dips.

[dangler]

In any business they like to refer to in-house conflicts that are in need of being resolved like the Miller/Pettersson as a “conflict resolution”. This is the job of management (middle and/or upper mgmt) to “manage”. I see the whole disaster as a reflection on management with perhaps ownership running interference than I do with the players and coaches themselves. This IMO played a big factor in Tocchets decision. Read between the lines. Couple that with loose lips Rutherford and Allvin’s behaviour, and Palao’s weird as fuck departure, I’m seeing a very toxic organization at the front office level.

You just said you were done with this team.


What kills me among some folks is that NONE of this is on JT or Tocchet. It's Pettersson for sure. And its the current management, because some are still butthurt that previous management got fired.

Karl, nobody is talking about Elms anymore but you. C’man, put it to bed, go get the Jimmy Special from Sam Remo and a 6 pack of molson malt tall boys and get on the lawn couch and put your feet up.

It has gone beyond stale.
Doyle is unwell

[Strangelove]

So they gave the vault keys to a guy they knew didn’t have the required level of commitment (going back years) and then traded the guy who did and was leading the way and setting the pace.

What. The. Fuck.

But a player who breaks down because another player isn't performing or preparing to the first player's standard is not "leading the way" to anywhere good. Look at me "set the pace" by being frustrated, which I will express by failing to back check while failing to get of the ice when I am gassed in overtime! Preparation that doesn't translate to on ice performance or even endurance isn't worth all that much....

And I am not taking EP40's "side" on this. I don't like that EP40 didn't come prepared (if it was injury, as he intimated, then I don't like that management didn't sit him until he was fully prepared to play), and I don't like more that he wasn't very good this past season.

But Miller's breakdown was far from a normal and healthy response to an underprepared and underperforming teammate. It is indicative of a different kind of fragility than that shown by EP40, but it is fragility nonetheless. And it *will likely reappear again* even if EP40 gets his head and body together if there's a triggering event (losing), because there is almost never a world in which everyone in an organization is doing as much as Miller would likely do to prepare himself. That's the thing about the world -- you can only control yourself and your own responses to how other's control themselves. To be sure, you can influence others to control themselves better, but you are still fully responsible for yourself (Miller failed) and doing so in an ineffective manner can make a problem worse (here, splitting the room).

To be sure, things/people can get so dysfunctional in an organization (hockey or not) that "its him or its me" becomes the best way to address a problem -- or moving them both. Its a bad place to be, and players calling the shots on personnel is as bad as owners doing so instead of the people they hired. It would have been far better to identify that it would likely get to this place before it got there, before it was well known that it got there. Leves is right, the roi changed dramatically. Miller was moved first probably because all attempts to shake him of his fragility (the ten game leave was the final attempt) failed, and management understood that if it got to the "him or me" point on these facts, then it would *likely* get there again someday even if EP40 were gone, and a swallowable offer was made by the Rags. *If* management could have found an acceptable EP40 trade first, they might have made that move and let the season and maybe another play out with Miller. But they moved Miller, and so they will likely allow EP40 to have a chance to fix his shit. They almost have no other choice since the market's likely nonexistent (no thanks to management's treatment of the issue).

Yeah, I've said a few times both Petey and JT are whackos.

Talented payers, but whackos.

[Blob Mckenzie]

In any business they like to refer to in-house conflicts that are in need of being resolved like the Miller/Pettersson as a “conflict resolution”. This is the job of management (middle and/or upper mgmt) to “manage”. I see the whole disaster as a reflection on management with perhaps ownership running interference than I do with the players and coaches themselves. This IMO played a big factor in Tocchets decision. Read between the lines. Couple that with loose lips Rutherford and Allvin’s behaviour, and Palao’s weird as fuck departure, I’m seeing a very toxic organization at the front office level.

You just said you were done with this team.


What kills me among some folks is that NONE of this is on JT or Tocchet. It's Pettersson for sure. And its the current management, because some are still butthurt that previous management got fired.

Karl, nobody is talking about Elms anymore but you. C’man, put it to bed, go get the Jimmy Special from Sam Remo and a 6 pack of molson malt tall boys and get on the lawn couch and put your feet up.

It has gone beyond stale.
Doyle is unwell

Fuck off

[Blob Mckenzie]

In any business they like to refer to in-house conflicts that are in need of being resolved like the Miller/Pettersson as a “conflict resolution”. This is the job of management (middle and/or upper mgmt) to “manage”. I see the whole disaster as a reflection on management with perhaps ownership running interference than I do with the players and coaches themselves. This IMO played a big factor in Tocchets decision. Read between the lines. Couple that with loose lips Rutherford and Allvin’s behaviour, and Palao’s weird as fuck departure, I’m seeing a very toxic organization at the front office level.

You just said you were done with this team.


What kills me among some folks is that NONE of this is on JT or Tocchet. It's Pettersson for sure. And its the current management, because some are still butthurt that previous management got fired.

Karl, nobody is talking about Elms anymore but you. C’man, put it to bed, go get the Jimmy Special from Sam Remo and a 6 pack of molson malt tall boys and get on the lawn couch and put your feet up.

I didn't mention anyone called Elms.

Mentioning the 8000 miles of rope previous management got and most folks not batting an eye is stale but lawn couches and cheese slathered couches is top notch. Samich makers and Baldies and raisin is highly entertaining to read.

So when are you quitting being a fan Peter10?

[Chef Boi RD]

Elms was a byproduct of ownerships weird as fuck mandate. He was their yes man. Rutherford came advertised as being given full autonomy with the Aqualini’s stepping aside, yet? Yet nothing has changed from Elms to Ruth, in fact, in just one season we saw the organization go from a power house to a shit house, all at Ruth and Allvin’s doings. It’s a marvel, truly. I am speechless.

[Blob Mckenzie]

Elms was a byproduct of ownerships weird as fuck mandate. He was their yes man. Rutherford came advertised as being given full autonomy with the Aqualini’s stepping aside, yet? Yet nothing has changed from Elms to Ruth, in fact, in just one season we saw the organization go from a power house to a shit house, all at Ruth and Allvin’s doings. It’s a marvel, truly. I am speechless.

So dodge the rest of the post. You didn't make a negative peep for 8 years and are all over these guys like a bad smell. One group gets an E for eight years of ineptitude. The current group is at a C and deserve one more year to turn things around. Four years iw enough to see if the manager can cut it.

[Chef Boi RD]

Elms was a byproduct of ownerships weird as fuck mandate. He was their yes man. Rutherford came advertised as being given full autonomy with the Aqualini’s stepping aside, yet? Yet nothing has changed from Elms to Ruth, in fact, in just one season we saw the organization go from a power house to a shit house, all at Ruth and Allvin’s doings. It’s a marvel, truly. I am speechless.

So dodge the rest of the post. You didn't make a negative peep for 8 years and are all over these guys like a bad smell. One group gets an E for eight years of ineptitude. The current group is at a C and deserve one more year to turn things around. Four years iw enough to see if the manager can cut it.

I wanted a change from the Elms era as bad as you. I was for once excited we had a new boss in town who wouldn’t put up with the Aqualini nonsense, a sea change was in place or so I was led to believe. I’ve been sadly disappointed. At this time I am not hopeful. The pipeline looks like shit with a disgruntled Willander and we have the worst top 6 in the league and Quinn Hughes has just two seasons left with us before he is free to roam. What happened? It’s depressing to say the least.

[Megaterio Llamas]

I can't talk about this team at the moment, it's just too discouraging.