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BoS wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:14 pm

donlever wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:03 pm Not to disparage Lynn Valley because it can be a high rent district in some locations but at 9 sheets a year Jake is not living there....

Wasn’t Jay Bouwmeester and Marian Gaborik once shopping around with a realtor too?

I believe someone at old Central had his sock fabricate the Gaborik rumour.

Tciso wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:50 pm Say NO to Guentzel. At $9+, he wrecks the cap. We need depth more than any $9 winger. I love the idea of him, but he hamstrings our depth, and depth/grinders win cups.

Agreed. We're starting to have a bunch of guys with long-term deals, I'd rather only do that on core guys. I know we could really use a scorer to play with EP40, I think we should just go for an older guy like Toffoli who would prob sign for quite a bit less AAV and way less term.

donlever wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:03 pm Not to disparage Lynn Valley because it can be a high rent district in some locations but at 9 sheets a year Jake is not living there....

I once had my snag sucked by a naughty nellie in the middle of that suspension bridge peaking on acid

Todd Bersnoozi wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 9:25 pm

Tciso wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:50 pm Say NO to Guentzel. At $9+, he wrecks the cap. We need depth more than any $9 winger. I love the idea of him, but he hamstrings our depth, and depth/grinders win cups.

Agreed. We're starting to have a bunch of guys with long-term deals, I'd rather only do that on core guys. I know we could really use a scorer to play with EP40, I think we should just go for an older guy like Toffoli who would prob sign for quite a bit less AAV and way less term.

If he wasn't so small he'd be perfect.
Canucks, and more to the point, Petey's line, needs someone bigger and meaner.
I doubt you find a trunuculous winger with Guentzels skillset on the market though.

dangler wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 10:35 pm Canucks, and more to the point, Petey's line, needs someone bigger and meaner.
I doubt you find a trunuculous winger with Guentzels skillset on the market though.

I really liked the way our team was built going into the playoffs, but I do wish we had a couple guys like Kassasian & Ferland in the lineup (healthy & in their primes). They were a physical presence, had a decent scoring touch and could play some minutes with EP40. Not sure what's out there in the free agent market, but big, physical doods (power forward types) who can score are generally hard to find. We kinda had one in DJ81, but it looks like he's gonzo.

Do you trade Conor Garland while his stock price is somewhat inflated to free up cap room? If Mikheyev becomes too challenging to move? I don’t see a world where teams are chomping at the bits to own Mikheyev’s contract.

Todd Bersnoozi wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 11:17 pm

dangler wrote: ↑Wed Jun 19, 2024 10:35 pm Canucks, and more to the point, Petey's line, needs someone bigger and meaner.
I doubt you find a trunuculous winger with Guentzels skillset on the market though.

I really liked the way our team was built going into the playoffs, but I do wish we had a couple guys like Kassasian & Ferland in the lineup (healthy & in their primes). They were a physical presence, had a decent scoring touch and could play some minutes with EP40. Not sure what's out there in the free agent market, but big, physical doods (power forward types) who can score are generally hard to find. We kinda had one in DJ81, but it looks like he's gonzo.

Pettersson's attributes will be most enhanced by a guy with hands and high offensive zone EQ, not trunculousness. Far more space is created offensively by those attributes than a power forward with limited attributes. Get that partner and maybe the third has physicality as a main attribute.

In terms of options who are on the team, there is Boeser, Miller, and Garland. Petey plays well with both. But Boeser and Miller now seem a thing, leaving only Garland. The reason Garland wasn't tried with Pettersson (much) this season is he was leading his own line, and Tochett preferred to stretch the depth (understandable enough), and Garland played well enough for that to work with inferior centers (Blueger, but assist to Joshua) and better centers (Lindholm). The good part about Garland with Pettersson is he can be both the skilled player on the line and the digger, and do a far better job at either than Hoglander, which means the options for the third member of the line are pretty wide open.

And so that's the question building next year's team. Will Garland be able to do the same (hold down a line) without Joshua and Lindhom/Blueger (if they aren't returning). If Garland is Pettersson's "pair" in Tockey's concept of pairs, will the club have the assets to build a third line pair that makes the system work?

Guentzel’s cost is daunting and a future cap headache but what if he is the replacement for Horvat in the bumper and the Canucks have the power play that will be needed in tight games?

Most of my problem with signing him is that I don’t understand why it would be a good idea in three years, but that’s for the management to plan out. Vegas has shown that you can add stars consistently, somehow

Kenji wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 8:17 am Vegas has shown that you can add stars consistently, somehow

Vegas has had players overperforming their contracts (e.g., Theodore; Marchessault) and while they have potential albatross contracts (e.g., Hertl), that are not yet albatross contracts. Vegas has no dead cap (buyouts, retentions).

To be sure, Stone underperforms because he's always injured -- but injured enough to be on the LTIR so that affects the owner (in salary or insurance premium) but has limited effect on the cap. And so long as they make the playoffs and he's there, who cares (except the owner?) AP's a bit overpaid for what he brings today, but just by a little; the defense as a whole is probably underpaid for what they are. Hill might be a bit much, but the Thompson Hill tandem @ $5.8M? Not bad. Still, I don't see them keeping Marchessault (or replacing his value) without making some moves (that lose some existing value to replace it differently); its a team that's going to have trouble improving its position and where they are now is a contender, but (IMO) no longer a top tier contender.

Dead cap, material overpayments -- these are the things that squeeze teams. Getting good value from contracts -- these are the things that open cap space. Good value disappears as contracts expire and as their contract eat up UFA years.

But understand that signing an older guy or taking on a contract that runs well into his 30s, whether its Miller or Guentzel or Hertl, those are decisions that don't bite you until later. Vegas may not have been bit yet, but they may be relatively soon. But Vegas is aiming near term and they've got the group where that makes sense. If the Canucks are thinking near term at this point, I can absolutely see them having the future pay for the shot over the next 3 years by signing contracts that make sense for the next couple of years and letting the late 2020's teams suffer with the albatrosses.

UWSaint wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 9:25 am

Kenji wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 8:17 am Vegas has shown that you can add stars consistently, somehow

Vegas has had players overperforming their contracts (e.g., Theodore; Marchessault) and while they have potential albatross contracts (e.g., Hertl), that are not yet albatross contracts. Vegas has no dead cap (buyouts, retentions).

To be sure, Stone underperforms because he's always injured -- but injured enough to be on the LTIR so that affects the owner (in salary or insurance premium) but has limited effect on the cap. And so long as they make the playoffs and he's there, who cares (except the owner?) AP's a bit overpaid for what he brings today, but just by a little; the defense as a whole is probably underpaid for what they are. Hill might be a bit much, but the Thompson Hill tandem @ $5.8M? Not bad. Still, I don't see them keeping Marchessault (or replacing his value) without making some moves (that lose some existing value to replace it differently); its a team that's going to have trouble improving its position and where they are now is a contender, but (IMO) no longer a top tier contender.

Dead cap, material overpayments -- these are the things that squeeze teams. Getting good value from contracts -- these are the things that open cap space. Good value disappears as contracts expire and as their contract eat up UFA years.

But understand that signing an older guy or taking on a contract that runs well into his 30s, whether its Miller or Guentzel or Hertl, those are decisions that don't bite you until later. Vegas may not have been bit yet, but they may be relatively soon. But Vegas is aiming near term and they've got the group where that makes sense. If the Canucks are thinking near term at this point, I can absolutely see them having the future pay for the shot over the next 3 years by signing contracts that make sense for the next couple of years and letting the late 2020's teams suffer with the albatrosses.

Older teams tend to win Stanley Cups and are faced with a decision to rebuild or try to extend their window by continually shuffling their player deck...

And I would think that most if not all GM's agree with Mark Chipman of the Jets when it comes to rebuilding;

Chipman strongly suggested he is no fan of tearing apart an NHL roster and rebuilding it.

"I've learned from people in this business who've been invaluable with their advice in terms of the fallacy of tearing down a team," he said. "I would challenge people to show me just what a rebuilding is. How do you do that?"

As far as players not living up to the back 9 of their contracts, what's the alternative? Let the Millers and EP's walk over the fear that they won't give value for the entire contact?

Teams over pay or extend contracts for a number of different and justifable reasons...

I think as a fan what we should hope for is that the franchise is a desirable location for players to play and are willing to leave $ or term on the table to help the business side...

Say what you want about the Benning years, but the state of the franchise then was that it had to overpay to attract players...Hopefully those days are gone but we shall see over the next few months...

Take care...

Kenji wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 8:17 am Guentzel’s cost is daunting and a future cap headache but what if he is the replacement for Horvat in the bumper and the Canucks have the power play that will be needed in tight games?

Most of my problem with signing him is that I don’t understand why it would be a good idea in three years, but that’s for the management to plan out. Vegas has shown that you can add stars consistently, somehow

I’m really not getting the allure with signing the 30 year old UFA Guentzel to what will be an overpayment future cap headache. He wasn’t impressive at all in the playoffs with Carolina and is a shrimp - 5’-11” 180 lbs. I worry that Allvin and Rutherford may obsess with their former players. I don’t see that hefty contract with term aging well

Bargains galore for the patient shopper. I don't think the Baldies will lose their nerve, at least I hope not.

Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 10:42 am Bargains galore for the patient shopper. I don't think the Baldies will lose their nerve, at least I hope not.

If we can divine Butthead's MO from last year's work, if he signs anyone on 1 July it's because management was fixated on getting that player no matter what. Guentzel may be that kind of signing, but I don't think it's guaranteed that Allvin will try and address that top-6 winger for Petey by spending high dough on a premium FA like Guentzel. I still think he'll either address it via trade, even if it's a sign-and-trade. They seem to laser in on the player they want vice picking from what's easily available.

I think management will be more patient when looking at filling holes in the guts of the lineup, replacing Payday Joshua with "the next Joshua" - whether that be Brandon Duhaime or someone else of similar calibre. Do we see the same thing when it comes to the blueline as well?

This promises to be a much more captivating offseason than in years past.

Lancer wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 11:01 am

Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 10:42 am Bargains galore for the patient shopper. I don't think the Baldies will lose their nerve, at least I hope not.

If we can divine Butthead's MO from last year's work, if he signs anyone on 1 July it's because management was fixated on getting that player no matter what. Guentzel may be that kind of signing, but I don't think it's guaranteed that Allvin will try and address that top-6 winger for Petey by spending high dough on a premium FA like Guentzel. I still think he'll either address it via trade, even if it's a sign-and-trade. They seem to laser in on the player they want vice picking from what's easily available.

I think management will be more patient when looking at filling holes in the guts of the lineup, replacing Payday Joshua with "the next Joshua" - whether that be Brandon Duhaime or someone else of similar calibre. Do we see the same thing when it comes to the blueline as well?

This promises to be a much more captivating offseason than in years past.

Lancer, I hope they build out the team with some quality pieces rather than swing for the fences on a premium signing like Guentzel and then fill out the roster with budget players. The media has obsessed about things they expect Rutherford to do before that haven't happened on several occasions and I think/hope this is the case again.

I'm not seeing a buyout happening for Mikheyev either. I hope not anyway, more dead cap we do not need. I think he likely has a bounce-back season this year and I would hate to watch him do it elsewhere.

Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 11:20 am

Lancer wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 11:01 am

Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Wed Jun 26, 2024 10:42 am Bargains galore for the patient shopper. I don't think the Baldies will lose their nerve, at least I hope not.

If we can divine Butthead's MO from last year's work, if he signs anyone on 1 July it's because management was fixated on getting that player no matter what. Guentzel may be that kind of signing, but I don't think it's guaranteed that Allvin will try and address that top-6 winger for Petey by spending high dough on a premium FA like Guentzel. I still think he'll either address it via trade, even if it's a sign-and-trade. They seem to laser in on the player they want vice picking from what's easily available.

I think management will be more patient when looking at filling holes in the guts of the lineup, replacing Payday Joshua with "the next Joshua" - whether that be Brandon Duhaime or someone else of similar calibre. Do we see the same thing when it comes to the blueline as well?

This promises to be a much more captivating offseason than in years past.

Lancer, I hope they build out the team with some quality pieces rather than swing for the fences on a premium signing like Guentzel and then fill out the roster with budget players. The media has obsessed about things they expect Rutherford to do before that haven't happened on several occasions and I think/hope this is the case again.

I'm not seeing a buyout happening for Mikheyev either. I hope not anyway, more dead cap we do not need. I think he likely has a bounce-back season this year and I would hate to watch him do it elsewhere.

WRT Guentzel, it depends on term and cap hit. As long as the term isn't beyond five years, I wouldn't lose my mind over the cap hit - provided management makes moves to fit the cap hit without sacrificing freedom of movement down the line when it comes to signing other players. He's much more of a sure-thing option to play with Petey than finding some low-rent 'diamond-in-the-rough' FA.

That said, if the team's pro-scouting is worth their salt and identified just such an under-the-radar option for Petey's wings why not give it a whirl? Allvin rolled a lot of sevens last summer with his lower-key signings. Maybe he continues his roll? Trading in penny stocks can work if your scouting is sound. That said, that tends to work more for the bottom six spots than top-six. The evolution of Burrows from minor-leaguer to being a Triplet with the Sedins was so much found money for Gillis & Co. but it's a rarity. You could say Allvin sort of had it in Kuzmenko, but for this team to make it to the next level without blowing wads in free agency Allvin needs to find his "Burrows" addition to the roster.