The Official Dave Ayres CC "All Thing Leaves" thread

[BigTuna]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/h ... ck=dlvr.it

Leiweke also made the point that the leaves will continue to pursue “character” as well as players with good analytics, noting that “there are players we have in our organization today whose numbers are off the chart good and whose character is just terrible. I don’t care how good your numbers are, if you have bad character, you are doomed for failure."

Yes and then when challenged by the media the response from Leiweke and MLG was that he was misquoted, the comment was taken out of context and he wasn't talking about Leaf players specifically. He was supposedly speaking in generally hypothetical terms, trying to make a philosophical point No one on the leaves fits that profile, just saying if they did he would get rid of them.

The back peddling was funny. He went on to say pretty much the same thing about Toronto FC.

The good thing is he has the balls, sort of, to call it like it is. If there are character issues with the leaves then Nonis has to find a way to clean house.

I think it's a crap thing for Lieweke to have done. He says that, everyone deals with the consequences and he's already given his notice he's leaving. Comments like this should not be given to the media once he said he's quitting.

[mr perfect]

Yeah, right. He shouldn't tell the truth because he's leaving. Your logic is pathetic, just like your posts.

[Hockey Widow]

I actually agree with Tuna on this one. It was a crapy, cowardly thing for him to do. He didn't have the balls to stick to his words when he back peddled. Did you listen to the guy? He sounded, and looked, like a man filled with tremendous self importance and as if he was the king holding court. He is an arrogant prick and doing what he did will create more harm than good.

He should never make that stuff public, deal with the issues internally, keep it out of the media. Having said that, I don't fault the media for reporting it.

[Strangelove]

It was a crapy, cowardly thing for him to do. He didn't have the balls to stick to his words when he back peddled.

Y'gotta give the man credit for speaking the truth.

Y'gotta take back that credit when he backpedals on it.

... what he did will create more harm than good.

He should never make that stuff public, deal with the issues internally, keep it out of the media.

Oh I'm sure he was well beyond frustrated with discussing this matter internally.

I think he wanted to get the message out as to the real reason he's leafing.

That being: "The Leaves are fucked and will be fucked further by the Shanny/Dumas direction moving forward"

The only thing left to do now is speculate on which Leaf players have "terrible character".

I say Leiweke was talking about Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, Kadri, Bozak, and Gardiner.

In that order.

I think Leiweke didn't fit in with MLSE because he is a sane man.

A bit of a coward, but sane as a judge!

Thank God no one at the centre of the universe will listen to him...

[Hockey Widow]

^^^

You have a much better way of putting things than I do Doc....

[BladesofSteel]

If I were a Leaves fan, I'd be pissed at that fuctard.

But I'd be even more pissed at the fact it is true. The highest priced players are the core group, and it totally lacks character and leadership.

Ol Tim is simply saying what every half-witted Leaves fan already knows, it just so happens he's saying it as he walks out the door.

Sad but true.

[BurningBeard]

Reminds me of something Burke would have done (devaluing an asset to make a point), but he wouldn't have back peddled. I'd also be pissed if I was a Leaf fan, it was a shitty thing to do.

The sad thing is he's right, and I have to think the player he's most likely talking about is Phaneuf. A known issue in the room, overpaid, overvalued, locked in, and captain. A bad combination if there ever was one.

[Hockey Widow]

He was said to be the driving force behind wanting big changes and to trade a few on the core. Perhaps he is just pissed that he wasn't listened to.

So they have unhappy executives, disgruntled players and a coach on his last legs. Makes for a long season.

[mathonwy]

He was said to be the driving force behind wanting big changes and to trade a few on the core. Perhaps he is just pissed that he wasn't listened to.

So they have unhappy executives, disgruntled players and a coach on his last legs. Makes for a long season.

Things don't bode well for the Laughs.

I agree with Strange that Lieweke is probably the sanest of the execs at Maple Leaf entertainment.

The thing about is Shanahan is, he means well but ultimately, he's an old school hockey player that doesn't exactly have the best track record when it comes to project management, execution and implementation.

As the NHL chief disciplinarian, I would have to say he failed. He did a fuck load better than Campbell and he implemented some good measures such as the video explanation, however, the players (and the fans) are still confused as ever by the lack of consistency of NHL discipline based on whatever the flavor of the day is. And a related topic, concussions, got a whole lot worse for the NHL under Shanny's watch with the whole 1000 lawsuit happening right now.

Shanny got very lost in trying to solve the issue of NHL player punishment. There is absolutely no doubt that it is a very difficult problem to solve as there are so many variables to take into consideration, however, it IS a solvable problem by the right person and Shanny wasn't that guy.

And now he's the president of a MASSIVE organization and his CEO just left in a very negative public way.

[BigTuna]

He was said to be the driving force behind wanting big changes and to trade a few on the core. Perhaps he is just pissed that he wasn't listened to.

So they have unhappy executives, disgruntled players and a coach on his last legs. Makes for a long season.

They did make big changes that he wanted though. They hired his choice of Raptors GM and leaves President and he was only there for over a year.

[BigTuna]

Yeah, right. He shouldn't tell the truth because he's leaving. Your logic is pathetic, just like your posts.

What I'm saying is, he shouldn't make controversial quotes others have to deal with when he's announced he's leaving. Also, he's backtracked so what was the point?

How is that pathetic logic?

[BigTuna]

He was said to be the driving force behind wanting big changes and to trade a few on the core. Perhaps he is just pissed that he wasn't listened to.

So they have unhappy executives, disgruntled players and a coach on his last legs. Makes for a long season.

Things don't bode well for the Laughs.

I agree with Strange that Lieweke is probably the sanest of the execs at Maple Leaf entertainment.

The thing about is Shanahan is, he means well but ultimately, he's an old school hockey player that doesn't exactly have the best track record when it comes to project management, execution and implementation.

As the NHL chief disciplinarian, I would have to say he failed. He did a fuck load better than Campbell and he implemented some good measures such as the video explanation, however, the players (and the fans) are still confused as ever by the lack of consistency of NHL discipline based on whatever the flavor of the day is. And a related topic, concussions, got a whole lot worse for the NHL under Shanny's watch with the whole 1000 lawsuit happening right now.

Shanny got very lost in trying to solve the issue of NHL player punishment. There is absolutely no doubt that it is a very difficult problem to solve as there are so many variables to take into consideration, however, it IS a solvable problem by the right person and Shanny wasn't that guy.

And now he's the president of a MASSIVE organization and his CEO just left in a very negative public way.

Old school hockey player who just hired Kyle Dubas as assistant GM. That's the opposite of "Old School".

[mathonwy]

Old school hockey player who just hired Kyle Dubas as assistant GM. That's the opposite of "Old School".

Yes, one "could" look it that way. However, one "could" also look at it as being a "flavour du jour" type of thing as advanced metrics have been around for ages and it's not exactly groundbreaking stuff.

Lieweke's point is that winning goes BEYOND just advanced metrics and all knowledgeable hockey fan can see that having a core of Phaneuf and Kessel is not a recipe for long term success. Players like Pavel Bure, Sergei Fedorov, Brett Hull, Patrik Elias, Patrick Kane were/are amazing players but they were/are nothing without that Trevor Linden, Stevie Y, Mike Modano, Scott Neidermayer and Jonathan Toews to anchor them.

[Strangelove]

He was said to be the driving force behind wanting big changes and to trade a few on the core. Perhaps he is just pissed that he wasn't listened to.

So they have unhappy executives, disgruntled players and a coach on his last legs. Makes for a long season.

They did make big changes that he wanted though. They hired his choice of Raptors GM and Leaves President and he was only there for over a year.

Did the guy that Lieweke hired as President refuse to back him regarding trading "a few of the core" as HW said?

Did Shanny go full-advanced-stat on Lieweke to the point of overlooking the "terrible character" of some of the core?

Because THAT is what Lieweke was referring to in the interview

(advanced stats vs character).

Tuna, you seem pissed at Lieweke for making the comments, but you haven't denied the validity of those comments.

So who do YOU think are the "terrible character" Leaf players to whom Lieweke was referring?

[Strangelove]

http://video.mapleleafs.nhl.com/videoce ... 48&lang=en

"I'm guilty of wearing down... at game 70 you're feeling it".

- Dion Phaneuf

Well then it's a good thing for Dion the Leaves tend to miss the playoffs eh wot!