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Globalization can not happen fast enough.

NAFTA, the European Trade Deal , TransPacific Partnership are not free trade. they define levels of trade barriers between countries.

Cornuck wrote:No matter who you were for, does anyone here think trump's win was about his position on globalization? Other than some vague lies about 'bringing jobs back' and cancelling trade deals (And who knows HE'LL even follow through.) I'm not sure that was his core message.

Partly, yes. He couldn't bring the jobs back otherwise. I also think people wanted change (the swamp drained). I personally believe Trump has done a great service by revealing the corruption (with help from Wikileaks, Snowden,etc.) even if he weren't to become the POTUS. You could argue that Trump himself is a whistle blower from the 1%.

You claim he lies about bringing jobs back but he hasn't even been sworn in yet. If he doesn't deliver his feet should be held to the fire. First he should be given a chance. Don't you agree?

BTW he wants to renegotiate trade deals not get rid of them altogether.

Does anyone think that Putin and Trump teaming up against ISIS instead of going to war with each other is a bad thing?

griz wrote:Does anyone think that Putin and Trump teaming up against ISIS instead of going to war with each other is a bad thing?

He won't be sworn in until the new year and you're already sacrificing Turkeys.

Whistleblower? No.
Megaphone? Yes.
He didn't tell the people any thing than what they already knew (And what they wanted to hear).

As for giving him a chance? He'll yeah, we have no choice. I hope he is a positive force in the world.

Will I hold my breath and expect him to educate himself by January? Not banking on it.

Per wrote:Mainly what you call mainstream media, but multiple sources, from many countries.
Certainly not from a certified lunatic babbling about people being possessed by demons.
How anyone can take that guy seriously is beyond me. He's like a 200 pound five year old with ADHD.

Remember that the mainstream media had Hillary winning by a landslide. According to a recent Associated Press Poll only 6% of people trust the mainstream media. And that was before the election.

corn wrote:(Trump) didn't tell the people any thing than what they already knew (And what they wanted to hear).

Remember that most people had no idea what Wikileaks was releasing because the mainstream media refused to cover it. It was Trump who helped get the word out with his platform.

Topper wrote:Globalization can not happen fast enough.

NAFTA, the European Trade Deal , TransPacific Partnership are not free trade. they define levels of trade barriers between countries.

True. But they have lowered tarifs and trade barriers, so they are a huge step in the right direction.
And don't forget CETA.

We also saw the Trump supporters on the same trip. In rural Washington somewhere before Chehalis, we pulled over for gas just past the Bethel church where stood a giant Trump sign. The inbred hillbilly mongoloids hanging out at that gas station was a sight to behold. It looked like a zombie Apocolypse. Doc Trump and Donald Toppers kind of peoples I assumed

griz wrote:
Does anyone think that Putin and Trump teaming up against ISIS instead of going to war with each other is a bad thing?

Nobody wants the USA and Russia to go to war against eachother. All we are asking is that the US doesn't look the other way as Putin ass rapes his neighbours. He has already destabilised Georgia and the Ukraine, and with a weakened EU (Brexit) and NATO (Trump) he might expand his forays into the Baltic states, Moldova or elsewhere.

He is on record stating that the breakup of the Soviet Union was the worst mistake in history.
It should come as no surprise that he is attempting to recreate it.

We need the US to have Europe's back, to ensure that Putin respects the borders of other nations.

As for ISIS; Russia is not primarily fighting ISIS. They are using it as a pretext to crush the democratic opposition to the Assad regime. Look at where they are bombing. Most of their bombs are dropped at rebel strongholds, eg Aleppo, where they are even bombing the hospitals and water treatment plants. Only a minor part of their bombs are directed at areas controlled by ISIS, although, granted, Russia did play a major part in helping the Syrian army retake Palmyra from ISIS.

It's mainly the Kurds and the Iraqi army that are taking on ISIS. Turkey is assisting somewhat, but they are mainly concerned about keeping the Kurds in check, so they're a bit ambivalent. They don't mind the Kurds fighting ISIS, but they don't really want either side to win....

Either way, Russia is not in Syria mainly to fight ISIS, they are there to make sure Assad remains in place. ISIS is part of Assad's problem, but a greater problem is that a large part of his people wanted to oust him and have democratic reform. Russia won't accept that.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 17301.html
http://time.com/4054941/putin-russia-syria/

Russia’s backing of Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad’s regime and its involvement in the bombardment of Aleppo have severely strained Moscow’s relations with the US and its European allies.

Western governments have condemned many of Mr Putin’s actions, going so far as accusing Russia of being complicit in war crimes for bombing civilians and hospitals in Aleppo following the collapse of a brief ceasefire brokered by Washington and Moscow.

In the past 24 hours air strikes have hit three hospitals in rebel-held villages in Aleppo province, the UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.
Yasser Alyousef of the Nour al-Din al-Zinki rebel group accused Russia and the Syrian regime of “butchery”.
“In the coming hours they are preparing to commit butchery and crimes against humanity in northern Syria, specifically in the cities of Aleppo and Idlib,” he said.

“With the US presidential transition under way, Vladimir Putin has said in recent days that he wants to improve relations with the United States,” Mr McCain said. “We should place as much faith in such statements as any other made by a former KGB agent who has plunged his country into tyranny, murdered his political opponents, invaded his neighbours, threatened America’s allies, and attempted to undermine America’s elections.”

https://www.ft.com/content/bd28e66e-ab2 ... 8207902122

griz wrote:

Per wrote:Mainly what you call mainstream media, but multiple sources, from many countries.
Certainly not from a certified lunatic babbling about people being possessed by demons.
How anyone can take that guy seriously is beyond me. He's like a 200 pound five year old with ADHD.

Remember that the mainstream media had Hillary winning by a landslide. According to a recent Associated Press Poll only 6% of people trust the mainstream media. And that was before the election.).

When you say "people", do you actually mean "Americans"?
I think you'd find quite different numbers in Europe or Canada.

griz wrote:

corn wrote:(Trump) didn't tell the people any thing than what they already knew (And what they wanted to hear).

Remember that most people had no idea what Wikileaks was releasing because the mainstream media refused to cover it. It was Trump who helped get the word out with his platform.

If you are talking about Wikileaks per se, it has been widely published throughout the world, with no significant contribution by Trump. If you mean the recent Podesta files about Hillary's emails that were retrieved by Russian hackers and then distributed through Wikileaks, that was basically a case of Putin successfully intervening in the American elections with the help of useful idiots. And the e-mails story was given more coverage in US mainstream media than all reporting of Hillary's political programme and policies combined. That hardly consitutes a refusal imho.

But sure, Trump helped get the word out. It seems his campaign was frequently fed stuff from the Russians, probably because some on his staff (most notably Manaforte, but I bet there were others as well) had ties to the Russian government:

This is not funny. It is terrifying. The Russians engage in a sloppy disinformation effort and, before the day is out, the Republican nominee for president is standing on a stage reciting the same manufactured story as truth. How did this happen? Who in the Trump campaign fed him false allegations at the same time they were being advanced in a Russian disinformation campaign? (The Trump campaign did not respond to a request for comment.)

http://europe.newsweek.com/vladimir-put ... 8635?rm=eu

Some food for thought Per :

griz wrote:Some food for thought Per :

OK, watched it.

Terrible video. Terribly annoying. Extremely slow in getting to the point. Endless repitions.
No sources. Not a single reference to who we are listening to. Who are these people?
Who do they represent? We are left unknowing. As for what they say:l
A mix of truths, half truths and desinformation.

It clearly is a civil war. It started with demonstrations in Homs, demanding democracy.
These demonstrations were met with bullets. Military was sent in to quash all dissent. Brutally.
Then the protests spread. What happened next is that outside forces entered the game.
The anti-Assad side received help from (among others) the Saudis, Qatar and Turkey. They also attracted "help" from Al Nusra (which has ties to Al Qaeda) and ISIS. And Israel, of course, who would love to get rid of Assad, but who are naturally keeping a low profile.
There were also sanctions against the Assad regime by most western nations, including the EU and the US.
Assad then received help from Iran, Hezbollah and Russia.

So, when they say the war is mostly outside forces, they're correct.
But when they say all of Syria backs Assad, they're lying.

The Assad family, who have ruled Syria with an iron fist for some fifty years, are Allawites. Basically a Shiite subgroup, or sect. The majority of Syrians are Sunni. A large part of the Sunni population supported the uprising, which is why Assad started bombing their cities. This is also why eg the Saudis got involved, and then Iran on the other side. The US was reluctant to get involved, still not really having sorted out either Iraq or Afghanistan, so they hoped sanctions would be enough. When it became clear the US was not entering into this conflict, Putin decided to get Assad's back. The Assad family has been loyal to the Soviet Union over the years, and an arch enemy to Israel. Putin realised this was his chance to strengthen Russia's influence in the region, and went whole hog. In media reports they mainly claim to be fighting ISIS, but that is far from the truth. Their main targets are the rebel strongholds, and strategically they make sure to help Assad's forces gain as much ground as possible.

The war is complicated. It's not just everyone against Assad. It's also Rebels (I'll use this term for the democratic opposition) and Al Nusra against ISIS, because virtually all Syrians agree that they do not want ISIS there.

As for the toyotas, nothing strange there.
ISIS have controlled large oil fields and have been managing to smuggle oil out through both Iraq and Turkey. They have also imposed heavy taxes on the areas they control. They have lots of money. Or rather, they had. Further more, it's not a very well kept secret that many Saudis sympathise with ISIS. The money for the toyotas comes from black market oil, taxes and confiscations and donations from Saudis and other Gulf State Arabs. They are probably imported through Turkey or Iraq. Most likely both.

The video seemed to suggest that the US were involved in providing toyotas, but I'm not buying that. I suggest they bought them locally with their oil money and Saudi greenback.
Also, toyotas have been the popular choice among rag tag militias throughout the Middle East and Africa for decades. I keep getting offers for my old toyota picnic from people with Middle East accents...

Yes I agree Per the video is edited in an annoying way.

These people are the representatives of the U.S. Peace Council. They are claiming (after visiting Syria) that this is not a civil war but a U.S. invasion. It seems to have a similar strategy as was used in Iraq.

Here's another clip :



And more from Ron Paul who says it is only characterized as a Civil War :

Topper wrote:Hilary after shaming The Donald about hedging on conceding....won't be speaking at her HQ tonight because she won't concede.

Podesta tells everyone to go home and get some sleep

Here's why she didn't show up to concede on election night...

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... -meltdown/

A Tuesday of catharsis for Donald Trump voters turned into an evening of rage for Hillary Clinton. The Democratic presidential nominee, anticipating the post-election reaction of many of her supporters, began shouting profanities, banging tables, and turning objects not nailed down into projectiles.

“Sources have told The American Spectator that on Tuesday night, after Hillary realized she had lost, she went into a rage,” R. Emmett Tyrrell reports. “Secret Service officers told at least one source that she began yelling, screaming obscenities, and pounding furniture. She picked up objects and threw them at attendants and staff. She was in an uncontrollable rage.”

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11 ... n-podesta/

According to author Ed Klein, Clinton “couldn’t stop crying” once she realized she had lost the election. “She was crying, inconsolably,” he said. “Her friend said — her female friend from way, way, back — said that it was even hard to understand what she was saying, she was crying so hard.” That’s when, according to a radio host who spoke with a CNN reporter, things got ugly. He added that Clinton may have been in a drunken rage.

Ahhhhhhhh

... that's a shame.

Kevin Allred @KevinAllred
now more than ever it's important to fight back, make your voices heard, push for change in WHATEVER way you can. cuz Trump wants us silent.

Kevin Allred @KevinAllred
i should also say: tomorrow on Rutgers New Brunswick campus - a walk out/march starts at 3 pm. Voorhees Mall on College Ave. BE THERE.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/16/ru ... reats.html

Kevin Allred, a professor at Rutgers who created a “politicizing Beyonce” course was reportedly taken to a New York City hospital’s psych ward Tuesday night for political statements he made “on campus and on Twitter.”

The NYPD told the paper that campus police said Allred “made threats to kill white people and he was subsequently taken to Bellevue Hospital for evaluation.”

Today on... Spot the Looney.

I think this gives a pretty good summary of the conflict in Syria:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-35806229

Btw, isn't it hilarious that I find myself on a fricking hockey bulletin board defending US Middle East policy?
What has the world come to?!




NB: I still maintain that the invasion of Iraq was in breech of international law, that falsified intelligence was used to make the case for the invasion, that the "nation building" in the wake of it was misguided and deeply flawed and helped create the chaos in the region at present. Especially catastrophic was the disbanding of the Iraqi military, who now make up the core of ISIS military command. If Iraq had not been invaded, ISIS would not exist.