We're All Doomed!™ (the Conquest, War, Famine, and Death Thread)

[Strangelove]

Well forking over government cash to stay home for the benefit of society is about as left wing as it gets...you would think Per would see this.

Oh Per sees that, but the Prime Directive overrules all else.

Prime Directive: Do well economically so you can say leftist policies work.

And hey, if some lives need to be sacrificed here and there for the cause, so be it.

[Chef Boi RD]

Doc how’d you like my postings today? Not bad for a Dude with zero background in Economics and military funding. I just copy and paste shit like it’s going out of style

[Strangelove]

Doc how’d you like my postings today? Not bad for a Dude with zero background in Economics and military funding. I just copy and paste shit like it’s going out of style

[rats19]

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/harvard- ... na-related


Hmmm

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/public- ... ssion=true

[Topper]

I don’t think anyone is saying a financial crisis isn’t looming.. I just gotta believe somehow they will figure it out.... can’t live in the doom and gloom headspace

I keep thinking about how Iceland did it a few years ago.

[Per]

Herd immunity as a solution is still being debated Per.

It has gotten a bad rep, in that some feel it is a resignatrd stance, but unless we get herd immunity we need to stay in lookdown indefinitely. Whether it is acquired from infections or vaccines, herd immunity is the only thing that can allow us to go back to normal life.

Also, fiddling numbers/cherry picking statistics to justify the absurdly high death rate is a rediculous defense.

Actually, I am protesting that most countries fiddle with numbers. But even so, you can hardly call Sweden’s numbers absurdly high. If we disregard that afaik only Belgium and Sweden include all deaths of people showing corona-like symptoms and just compare the official numbers across the board, here’s a look at the current official corona deaths per million population:

Belgium - - - - 677
Spain - - - - - - 540
Italy - - - - - - 478
UK - - - -- - - - 419
France - - - - - 381
Netherlands - 295
Sweden - - - - 265
Ireland - - - - 264
USA - - - - - - 207
Switzerland - 204

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

The USA as a whole has only 207 so far, but large parts of the midwest, south and west coast have not really been affected yet.
Looking at individual states you find these numbers:

New York - - - - - - - 1256
New Jersey - - - - - - 888
Connecticut - - - - - 697
Massachusetts - - - - 586
Louisiana - - - - - - - 431
Michigan - - - - - - - 407
District of Columbia 386
Rhode Island - - - - - 303
Pennsylvania - - - - - 221
Maryland - - - - -- - - 213
Illinois - - - - - - - - - 204

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

As you see there are plenty of places where the death toll has passed 200/million, so whereas Sweden’s numbers are higher than in the other Nordic countries they are neither exceptional nor absurd. Tragic, sure, but that is only what should be expected from a pandemic.

Sweden perplexingly chose their own unconventional path which was to sacrifice the weak due to the country lacking the liquid resources to bankroll their citizens into staying home.

Seriously?

Check out the national debt to GDP ratio:
USA 106.7
France 99.2
Canada 88.01
UK 85.67
Finland 59.98
Germany 56.93
China 55.36
Switzerland 39.49
Sweden 37.23

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... onal-debt/

As you can see the fiscal conservatism of Swedish governments has left us with ample navigation room for this crisis. Our finances, prior to this pandemic, are in great shape. However, rather than bankrollong people staying home we have prioritized to bankroll people staying employed.

Companies do not have to pay their employer fees for March through May and have also the possibility to postpone paying taxes till next year. Businesses that stand still can send home staff and the govt will pay 80% of the salary. Companies that have lost more than 30% of turnover compared to last year can get government grants to survive this crisis.

Oh, but there is some incentive to staying home too, people can get up to three weeks sick leave with 80% of their salary without seeing a doctor. Normally you need to see a doctor after the first week.

I was reading an interview with an exasperated epidemiologist from Gothenburg who was not holding back in his condemnation of your countries' covid response policy. Your experts are most certainly not united in support of it whatsoever and the proof is in the body count.

Absolutely. Since we have not had a pandemic like this since the Spanish flu, there is no real blueprint for what to do, and of course there are a lot of opinions. Especially since most other countries have chosen a different path. Yet polls show roughly two thirds of Swedes trusting in the policy suggested by the Swedish Public Health Agency.

The body count is however far too early to evaluate. There will be time for that in 2022 or 2023 when this hopefully should be over.

My wife lost her grandfather today to it. It is certainly taking it toll in Sweden and i find it bizarre that you are so voraciously defending this.

My heartfelt condolences.
This whole thing truly sucks, and it’s always tragic to lose a loved one.

The one area where Sweden has truly failed is in keeping the nursing homes safe. The municipalities and private companies that run them have not done a good job in ensuring availability of PPE for their staff and not tested them in the way that hospitals do. They are also often poorly trained in how to prevent spread of disease. Almost half of those that have died so far are elderly living in nursing homes, and half the nursing homes in the Stockholm area have been afflicted.

I find it absurd thiugh that every one seems to be piling on Sweden and attacking us. No one knows what the best strategy is. This has never happened before in modern history, and there is little to learn from pandemics in earlier times when both society and health care was very different. We have chosen a slightly different approach than most. Not very different. The main difference is that we have guidelines rather than rules or legislation, but we are encouraged to work from home, practice social distancing, wash our hands incessantly and avoid travelling. Gatherings of more than 50 people are banned. Another difference is that the politicians have mainly stayed out of this and left the decisions to the agency in charge of public health. Thus not so much political posturing and grandstanding and a need to show yourself as and on top of this.
But somehow this has invoked ire in lots of people elsewhere. Wtf? What gives? We’re doing the best we can.

Time will tell if this was the right strategy or not, but at present it is too early to tell.
We’re barely three months into What will most likely be a two year pandemic.

The real disaster will be when it hits the slums of Africa and Latin America.
They’re already digging mass graves in Manaus in the Amazon rain forest.

[Per]

MAYPOLES WIZ, MAYPOLES!!!

Christians tried to change pagan holidays in an attempt to save the fiends from themselves

... but to this day some of the lost buggerees still celebrate in the old manner.

Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer the Crusader conversion methods...

I dont think its a swedish thing so much anymore. I just asked the wife and she thinks only her grandfather called the cock thing a maypole

Yeah, the maypoles are for midsummer, and most people call them midsummer poles these day.

Walpurgis night (April 30th) is bonfires, fireworks and being drunk and disorderly in a public place.
And it’s a major festivity at all universities, usually with parades, parties and stuff.
Normally, this year all celebrations were cancelled and discouraged.

Mayday, also known as the international day of the worker, is a national holiday and there are usually demonstrations, marches and manifestations organized by the unions and various left wing parties.
Normally. This year all celebrations were cancelled and discouraged.
Albeit the Left Party apparently organized an orch march in world of warcraft.

Me? Celebrating my wife’s name’s day with her and our youngest daughter (+ boyfriend).
Also done a lot of yard work and started up the pool.

[Megaterio Llamas]

The British actually introduced the maypole dance to the Miskito Indians in Central America during the days when they used the well hidden coves and lagoons of the shore as bases from which to attack Spanish galleons. British privateers and petty officials often resided on The Shore full time back then, creating small plantation villages dotting the lagoon sides along the Atlantic Coast of what is today Honduran and Nicaraguan territory.

According to the reports from buccaneers and other adventures passing through the lawless Mosquito Shore the maypole celebrations were a debauched, drunken affair referred to as 'Sambo Big Drunks' by Spanish officials where a fermented beverage called mishla made from fried bananas and the Miskito women's saliva was consumed to blackout level drunkenness and festivities devolved from solemn celebrations with the chiefs wearing British officers uniforms into naked orgies and brawling. This Miskito 'golden age' is still fondly remembered by the still Anglophile Indians of the coast, and vestiges of the British presence are still to be seen everywhere. Not sure about the maypole dances though...

[Mickey107]

Doc how’d you like my postings today? Not bad for a Dude with zero background in Economics and military funding. I just copy and paste shit like it’s going out of style

[Cousin Strawberry]

As you can see the fiscal conservatism of Swedish governments has left us with ample navigation room for this crisis. Our finances, prior to this pandemic, are in great shape. However, rather than bankrollong people staying home we have prioritized to bankroll people staying employed.

Hmmm...sounds suspiciously like someone who is used to being loaded, starting to go broke and not wanting anyone to know. Not to mention....that is pretty close to exactly what the orange donald is preaching now while enduring never ending criticism for it from the left.

Lets dig into that one a bit. Heres a well written article touching on the downward spiral..the very first hit on google

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/09/05/s ... re-state/

Sweden’s GDP per capita only grew at a meager 0.9 percent in 2017. Besides Luxembourg, this is the lowest rate in the EU.

Waaaaait a minute....thats not the sunshine and lollipops you are alluding to at all Per!

Anyway, your generous gaping door policy on economic migration has certainly not helped either. It sounds like you guys will be needing a major augmentation to your spending soon. I can attest directly to how ineffectual the public health system has become there...long waiting times for anything, poor quality of care and this isnt even to do with the wifes' morfar.

[Per]

As you can see the fiscal conservatism of Swedish governments has left us with ample navigation room for this crisis. Our finances, prior to this pandemic, are in great shape. However, rather than bankrollong people staying home we have prioritized to bankroll people staying employed.

Hmmm...sounds suspiciously like someone who is used to being loaded, starting to go broke and not wanting anyone to know. Not to mention....that is pretty close to exactly what the orange donald is preaching now while enduring never ending criticism for it from the left.

i know. Which is probably why Fox News has started warming up to Sweden. It feels weird and a little uncomfortable for us.

Lets dig into that one a bit. Heres a well written article touching on the downward spiral..the very first hit on google

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/09/05/s ... re-state/

Sweden’s GDP per capita only grew at a meager 0.9 percent in 2017. Besides Luxembourg, this is the lowest rate in the EU.

Waaaaait a minute....thats not the sunshine and lollipops you are alluding to at all Per!

OK, so you claim we lack liquid funds, so I show you that our debt ratio is remarkably low compared to most countries to prove you wrong, and then you suddenly starts talking about growth instead. Talk about non sequitur!

Well, I have news for you. There will be negative growth for most countries in 2020, and if this thing doesn’t blow over - probably in 2021 as well. How long did the Great Depression last?

Anyway, your generous gaping door policy on economic migration has certainly not helped either. It sounds like you guys will be needing a major augmentation to your spending soon. I can attest directly to how ineffectual the public health system has become there...long waiting times for anything, poor quality of care and this isnt even to do with the wifes' morfar.

it’s all about immigration with you, isn’t it?
Well, my wife’s an immigrant and so is yours. What’s the problem?

[Cousin Strawberry]

I honestly dont have a problem with responsible immigration but i surely do with the type of economic migration that has run rampant through most of the EU. Sweden has been exploited to no end by this and I'm not sure why you feel it is no big deal. Who are you defending?

Alright regarding the economics lesson...i used the term liquid out of context. My appologies i overlook the applicable use of the word.

I was more refuting your claim that Sweden is prospering and doing just fine, you being the economist or whatever can nail me on that for sure. The article predates the covid financial impact by at least a year btw so it isnt even relevant to cite the current stats

[5thhorseman]

Sorry about your grampa-in-law there Wiz They always go too soon, before you get to hear all their stories.

That said, I tend to agree with Sweden's approach. Vaccine development typically takes 18 months, so that would be mid-2021. Then, about 6 months to mass-produce it and vaccinate everyone, so end-2021. That's worst-case as there will probably be some shortcuts taken with respect to testing/certification, though that raises other issues. It's also best-case in that it may not be possible to develop a vaccine at all ... remember, there's never been one for a coronavirus yet (common cold, SARS, MERS). Possibly some other therapy involving blood plasma will prove successful. Who knows?

Bottom line is that it's a big question mark. Do you really want to go that long without hockey? Or getting on a plane to go somewhere?

Though I think the US will be going down the natural herd immunity road anyways due to civil disobedience. Especially once countries that reach herd immunity first start ramping up their economies and leave the US in their dust. The pressure will be on Trump like never before to re-open things.

[Cousin Strawberry]

The countries that sealed themselves off early and diligently hunted down carriers are now sitting at and around 0 cases (NZ, Taiwan, etc). These would appear to be engaging in the most successful strategy and if they can continue to control who comes and goes through their borders it would be the most effective solution while awaiting vaccine development.

Obviously my 2 examples are island nations but i think this has been the global consensus success pathway to beating this thing ( except for Sweden and apparently the USA)

[Per]

The countries that sealed themselves off early and diligently hunted down carriers are now sitting at and around 0 cases (NZ, Taiwan, etc). These would appear to be engaging in the most successful strategy and if they can continue to control who comes and goes through their borders it would be the most effective solution while awaiting vaccine development.

Obviously my 2 examples are island nations but i think this has been the global consensus success pathway to beating this thing ( except for Sweden and apparently the USA)

Have you heard about Brazil and Belarus?

Belarus is afaik the only country to still have professional sports events with spectators.

Bolsonaro is still doing the early Trump ”it’s just a flu” shtick and fired a health minister for wanting a lockdown.