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5thhorseman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2026 2:36 pm

rats19 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2026 2:28 pm I had no idea Canada held the fifth most debt of the USA.. that’s really quite an interesting fact….

It's mostly due to Canada consistently having a trade surplus with the US. Exporters receive USD and then that eventually gets parked in US government bonds. It's the same for China and Japan which also have trade surpluses.

But it is debt that can be called or leveraged. Yah?

It is debt that can be sold on the open market at higher premium than it currently holds and that resets the bond prices at higher rates. That makes the US's debt servicing higher and means their insatiable appetite for borrowing becomes eve more expensive.

This is why the gave Japan $10 billion instead of letting Japan sell US debt on the open market. It is also why the US has ramped the printing press to buy their own bonds.

The house of cards falls if the bond premium increases.

Ahh ok thnx topper

So more a leverage than a call…

I think it's interesting that Trump hasn't said anything publicly yet on the failed trade talks. I think he's in shock that Canada walked away from the negotiations. Normally, he would be railing on Truth Social about this. I'll bet his "handlers" did all they could to stop him from flying off the handle in public. Having said that, I think he's going to introduce even harsher punishment on Canada than just the 50% tariffs. Anyway, it'll be interesting (and probably painful) to hear what he has to say about the situation.

Some of the demands from the US being reported which caused Canada to walk away;

"Canada would be barred from selling its critical minerals to anyone else without first offering them to the U.S.

The F-18 contract—including options for additional aircraft purchases—would become mandatory.

There is the imperative to participate in the "Golden Dome" defense system through the purchase of U.S. defense technology, such as radar aircraft"...

Some of us tend to focus on the negative and look at a glass as half empty, if you look at the glass as half full this should give you some comfort...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZGbTYi ... BsE41pNEiw

We have little idea what was actually proposed, but the critical minerals, Carney alluded to it in his statements, wouldn't surprise me. That is one one of the keys to the whole annex Greenland nonsense.

I've mentioned before a talk on critical minerals I saw several years ago and the geopolitical gamesmanship in locking up supply. China has most of the African sources under its influence.

Does anyone remember when Teck bought Fording Coal in the mid 2000's and the debt near bankrupted them. Teck shares dropped to around $5/sh. It was China who bailed them out. Many Canadian publicly traded resource companies have a large portion of their shares under Chinese ownership. For a while, China was a big player in the junior mining sector.

Canadian press has focused on Lutnick's late involvement in the deal and the changing goalposts. Greer, the US's trade negotiator, works for Lutnick, but apparently the two don't see eye to eye.

I think Donny fears egg on his face in the international spotlight that a trade war with Canada brings. The world is asking how fucking low and stupid are you to piss of Canada? Someone over played their hand and had their bluff called.

For Canada, keeping wingnuts like Ford and Kinew in check will be the challenge.

How long can US manufacturing deal with a 50% increase in the price of aluminum? For Canada, the nuclear option is an excise tax on potash.

rikster wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2026 8:14 pm Some of the demands from the US being reported which caused Canada to walk away;

"Canada would be barred from selling its critical minerals to anyone else without first offering them to the U.S.

The F-18 contract—including options for additional aircraft purchases—would become mandatory.

There is the imperative to participate in the "Golden Dome" defense system through the purchase of U.S. defense technology, such as radar aircraft"...

Some of us tend to focus on the negative and look at a glass as half empty, if you look at the glass as half full this should give you some comfort...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZGbTYi ... BsE41pNEiw

We've lived off of America's tit in terms of military defense and trade benefits for so long, you should be looking at all of those things (except for item 1) and be seeing them as contributing to an military and economic alliance.

So we owe them? No thanks.

5thhorseman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2026 10:35 pm So we owe them? No thanks.

Haha. Not what I said.

What does living off America's tit for so long have to do with anything at all? We should make decisions based on the present.

5thhorseman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2026 11:05 pm What does living off America's tit for so long have to do with anything at all? We should make decisions based on the present.

I think it behooves us to support our closest ally.

I don't agree with sacrificing any sovereignty.

I don't actually think we should be even having to discuss these items (F-18 and Golden Dome) in a trade negotiation though. The fact that the US has to push for this instead of it being something we already had committed to shines a big spotlight on how ridiculous we are at this point.

We committed to the fighters (I'm assuming that rickster meant the purchase of the F-35) under Harper. Then Trudeau scrubbed them and said it had to be reviewed only to commit again at an exorbitant increase in cost. Then it got walked back again. Like WTF. Of course 'Merica is pissed.

The Golden Dome would protect us too. We are a collection of clowns if we want to sit out of that one because we think Europe would be a better ally.

If we were holding up our end of this friendship (I'm not sure I feel confident calling it an alliance at this point anymore) then these items wouldn't even be in consideration, so it wouldn't look so retarded.

I will say though, that if it was not these things, then Trump would find something else to throw a fit over.

I honestly think the best thing to do for our relationship with the US right now is to just weather the next 24 months until an actually sane individual is sitting in the Oval.....like, they won't put another lunatic in there..... will they?

Mëds wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2026 11:40 pm I honestly think the best thing to do for our relationship with the US right now is to just weather the next 24 months until an actually sane individual is sitting in the Oval.....like, they won't put another lunatic in there..... will they?

That's the big question isn't it.

I believe America is in unavoidable decline due to not investing in their education, infrastructure, and health systems when they were prosperous. Instead they went in the direction of tax cuts, widening the gap between rich and poor, money in politics, corporations having the same rights as people, and running up the debt. This is now entrenched and I don't believe can be reformed.

So you have a lot of disaffected Americans who will continue to get poorer on a relative basis and will take a chance with their vote and put another crazy in office, because how else can you change things? Unfortunately these are just personas; real change requires hard work and going against the grain in a substantive way.

The Republicans are in thrall to a cult right now and who knows how long that will last. Democrats may be able to change some things if they can reel in the progressive wing. They'll have 4 years, maybe 2, to before needing bipartisan support at which point any reforms will stall.

So I'm not too hopeful right now. I think we need at least as strong of an alliance with the EU as we do with the US.

Sounds almost Roman Empire-ish eh wot.

rikster wrote: ↑Sat Aug 22, 2026 8:14 pm Some of the demands from the US being reported which caused Canada to walk away;

"Canada would be barred from selling its critical minerals to anyone else without first offering them to the U.S.

The F-18 contract—including options for additional aircraft purchases—would become mandatory.

If these were among the last minute demands the US put in place, no wonder Carney backed out.

Canada holds a vast majority of the critical minerals the world needs to compete in the race for AI supremacy, no way would they be held by the balls from the US.

Assuming you meant F35’s, while they are superior to the Gripens in a number of categories, Saab claims their jet is superior in defence and Arctic climate, where they will be needed most. Regardless, Canada is already committed to both fighter jets, and for good reason.

I give Carney props for his handling of this particular debacle (for now)

It's the economy stupid with a interesting commentary