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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 10:56 am
by 5thhorseman
UWSaint wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:54 am
5thhorseman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:02 am
We used to say "life is sacred". Now we recognise that people with terminal illnesses are suffering and lose their dignity, so we have MAID.
Abortion used to be a criminal act, now we recognise a woman's right to control her body.
Morals evolve as we evolve.
Yes, help the old and disabled (and lonely!) kill themselves. And eliminate those clumps of cells. I mean they could be anything. Enlightened! Progress!
Yes the State should force people to suffer until they succumb to their disease or old age, or medicate them into a stupor.
I'm really surprised by your response UW.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 11:00 am
by 5thhorseman
Tciso wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 8:46 am
5thhorseman wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 8:51 pm
Tciso wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 7:42 pm
What should we base our morals on?
Whatever we want. We all want to survive. Co-exist. Live in a society. Thrive. Our morals are the the beliefs that enable those things.
We don't need anything external to us to tell us what those morals SHOULD be.
But, what are our collective morals? Are they all situational? Are some morals universal? Are some morals fixed, or do all morals change over time?
It's all up to us, is all I'm saying. You seem to be looking for absolute answers which will only lead you to religion.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 1:56 pm
by UWSaint
5thhorseman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 10:56 am
UWSaint wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:54 am
5thhorseman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 7:02 am
We used to say "life is sacred". Now we recognise that people with terminal illnesses are suffering and lose their dignity, so we have MAID.
Abortion used to be a criminal act, now we recognise a woman's right to control her body.
Morals evolve as we evolve.
Yes, help the old and disabled (and lonely!) kill themselves. And eliminate those clumps of cells. I mean they could be anything. Enlightened! Progress!
Yes the State should force people to suffer until they succumb to their disease or old age, or medicate them into a stupor.
I'm really surprised by your response UW.
The state isn’t forcing people to suffer without maid; the state is permitting the intentional taking of life with it. I think there’s a fundamental moral difference between palliative care that could (but is not intended to) cause, say, respiratory failure and intending that result.
And even if I didn’t have this view, I would feel it silly to think countries that have such programs “enlightened” while others are backwards.
Everyone I know who has committed suicide would have described their life as full of anguish or suffering. Were they enlightened to kill themselves?
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 2:02 pm
by UWSaint
5thhorseman wrote: ↑Sat Sep 27, 2025 8:51 pm
Whatever we want. We all want to survive. Co-exist. Live in a society. Thrive. Our morals are the the beliefs that enable those things.
We don't need anything external to us to tell us what those morals SHOULD be.
We all want to survive, but I don’t think it’s at all a given that we all want others to survive or to co-exist. It’s certainly not the resting position of mankind. I am not even making a general *need religion* claim here, as some religions are perfectly sanguine with convert or kill.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 2:16 pm
by UWSaint
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 10:37 am
Ok, you’re getting cute, deflecting, I’ll move on, nothing to see here. Was at least hoping you could answer the question regarding “empathy”, is it woke?
If a post deflects a post that is itself a deflection, (with strawmen, hyperbole, and non-sequiturs), does it make a sound?
But fwiw, I don’t think there is anything inherently “woke” about the concept of empathy except insofar as it would be seen as excluding other ways of understanding what people think and experience.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 2:26 pm
by Chef Boi RD
wtf was that, lol.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 2:33 pm
by Cornuck
UWSaint wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 2:16 pm
But fwiw, I don’t think there is anything inherently “woke” about the concept of empathy except insofar as it would be seen as excluding other ways of understanding what people think and experience.
To me, Woke is pretty much empathy for other groups of people, but the term has so much baggage these days.
Woke = I have empathy
Woke = I have empathy, and I hope you do too
Woke = I have empathy, and you should too
Woke = I have empathy, and you must too, regardless of your previously held beliefs.
Woke = I have empathy, and you must too, regardless of your previously held beliefs, and that means you should overcome your religious or other background and agree with me
Woke = I have empathy, and you should too, regardless of your previously held beliefs, and that means you should overcome your religious or other background and agree with me, and if you don't, I'll cancel you.
Woke = I have empathy, and you should too, regardless of your previously held beliefs, and that means you should overcome your religious or other background and agree with me, and if you don't, I'll cancel you, boycott your business, and never forgive you, even if you change your opinions.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 3:37 pm
by UWSaint
Cornuck wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 2:33 pm
UWSaint wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 2:16 pm
But fwiw, I don’t think there is anything inherently “woke” about the concept of empathy except insofar as it would be seen as excluding other ways of understanding what people think and experience.
To me, Woke is pretty much empathy for other groups of people, but the term has so much baggage these days.
Woke = I have empathy
Woke = I have empathy, and I hope you do too
Woke = I have empathy, and you should too
Woke = I have empathy, and you must too, regardless of your previously held beliefs.
Woke = I have empathy, and you must too, regardless of your previously held beliefs, and that means you should overcome your religious or other background and agree with me
Woke = I have empathy, and you should too, regardless of your previously held beliefs, and that means you should overcome your religious or other background and agree with me, and if you don't, I'll cancel you.
Woke = I have empathy, and you should too, regardless of your previously held beliefs, and that means you should overcome your religious or other background and agree with me, and if you don't, I'll cancel you, boycott your business, and never forgive you, even if you change your opinions.
I kind of think there is an inherent tension between the woke empathy you describe (group directed) and empathy as it’s traditionally understood, which is to feel what another feels, presumably compassionately so. That’s because individuals in groups don’t feel the same way. There’s always a “general will” that is getting empathized with, the culling of problematic individuals to create identity avatars. Deciding what that will is involves an exercise of judgment that is rational, political, strategic—concepts that have their place but don’t align with empathetic forms of understanding.
So I am not sure anything woke derives from true empathy. Talking the theory here, not the people. I am sure many woke people feel empathy, and I am sure many feel guilt and confuse it with empathy.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 3:56 pm
by Chef Boi RD
There’s no need to complicate empathy, ffs. It’s pretty clear cut and dry. You either lack empathy for others or have it. Without it you pretty much hate. or could give two shits, about your fellow human. I was under the impression empathy as being important to ole JC.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 4:12 pm
by Tciso
Full quote from Charlie Kirk "I can't STAND the word empathy, actually. I think empathy is a made-up, new-age term, and it does a lot of damage. I much prefer the word compassion, and I much prefer the word sympathy. Empathy is where you try to feel someone's pain and sorrows as if they're your own. compassion allows for understanding."
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 4:18 pm
by Chef Boi RD
Charlie Kirk the new Marcus Aurelius. Let’s make a statue of him and turn his quotes into medieval scrolls, ffs. I fucking hated the guy.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 4:24 pm
by 5thhorseman
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 3:56 pm
There’s no need to complicate empathy, ffs. It’s pretty clear cut and dry. You either lack empathy for others or have it. Without it you pretty much hate. or could give two shits, about your fellow human. I was under the impression empathy as being important to ole JC.
I'm not a particularly empathetic person. Quite often I am oblivious to others' feelings . Does that mean that I hate my fellow human?
I always equated "woke" to awareness. You don't need to feel what others feel, you just need to be aware of what they are going through. To be woke means to have an awareness of racial prejudice and social injustice.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 4:31 pm
by Tciso
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 4:18 pm
Charlie Kirk the new Marcus Aurelius. Let’s make a statue of him and turn his quotes into medieval scrolls, ffs. I fucking hated the guy.
Was he too anti=fascist for ya?
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 4:51 pm
by Cornuck
5thhorseman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2025 4:24 pm
I always equated "woke" to awareness. You don't need to feel what others feel, you just need to be aware of what they are going through. To be woke means to have an awareness of racial prejudice and social injustice.
Thank you - that's a better description.
Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2025 4:55 pm
by rats19
I’ve always considered “woke” as awareness over reach