CanucksCorner.com Forums

Posted: **Thu Sep 25, 2025 6:57 pm**

Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 6:39 pm
Tciso wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 5:25 pm
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 6:00 am If I announce myself as Profa (Pro Fascist) instead of Antifa (Anti fascist) would Trump remove me from his Terrorsist Group List? Should I join the Proud Boys - an American far-right, neo-fascist militant organization that promotes and engages in political violence. The group's leaders have been convicted of violently opposing the federal government of the United States, including its constitutionally prescribed transfer of presidential power. I don’t believe they are on Trumps list of domestic terrorist groups.

“Proud Boys, stand back and stand by,” Trump said. “But I’ll tell you what, I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing problem.”
Fascism is leftist, not far right.
Pulled from the Google

Fascist philosophies vary by application, but remain distinct by one theoretical commonality: all traditionally fall into the far-right sector of any political spectrum, catalyzed by afflicted class identities over conventional social inequities.

Associating the left and right with the size of the government is a newer, American thing. The left-right dichotomy is about equality and social progress. That's why anarchism is a far-left ideology, and fascism is a far-right ideology.

Communists want equality and new values, while fascists seek hierarchy and return to traditional values.

Fascism is right wing because it aligns with and votes alongside conservative and religious parties

An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.

The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43), and the regimes of the Nazis in Germany and Franco in Spain were also Fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach.

The name comes from Italian fascismo, from fascio ‘bundle, political group’, from Latin fascis ‘rod

Didn't Mussolini also include a close relationship between the corporate and the government in his description of fascism?

Posted: **Thu Sep 25, 2025 7:09 pm**

Megs are you Profa (Pro Fascist) or Antifa? Trump hates Anti fascism.

Posted: **Thu Sep 25, 2025 7:10 pm**

Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 7:09 pm Megs are you Profa (Pro Fascist) or Antifa? Trump hates Anti fascism.

I'm definitely not pro fascism Chef

Posted: **Thu Sep 25, 2025 7:26 pm**

Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 7:10 pm
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 7:09 pm Megs are you Profa (Pro Fascist) or Antifa? Trump hates Anti fascism.
I'm definitely not pro fascism Chef

Then you’re against fascism? Uh, oh…you might end up on Trumps terrorist list.

Posted: **Thu Sep 25, 2025 7:43 pm**

Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 7:26 pm
Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 7:10 pm
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 7:09 pm Megs are you Profa (Pro Fascist) or Antifa? Trump hates Anti fascism.
I'm definitely not pro fascism Chef
Then you’re against fascism? Uh, oh…you might end up on Trumps terrorist list.

I wouldn't trust any political movement in the US as far as I could throw it. I think many of the sinister forces currently at work destabilizing governments in the Global South are also busy doing the same work in the US these days. I haven't seen this level of political violence in that country since the sixties, it's just that people were horrified by it back then, on the right and the left, and the country unified when Robert Kennedy was killed. There is certainly none of that now; people are desensitized, and social cohesion is disappearing.

Isn't antifa an imported movement from Germany? That's a place that has seen some crazy political violence going back to the seventies, so I guess the violence makes sense. I would rather talk about the Bolivarian revolution in Venezuela, the Sandanista movement in Nicaragua, or Ibrahim Traore kicking the French out of Burkina Faso and what has been going on in the African Sahel than these psy ops in the West. I find that extremely discouraging.

Posted: **Thu Sep 25, 2025 9:44 pm**

al-Jolani was feted by Western leaders at the recent UN shindig in New York

Italy’s Meloni can’t get enough of Al Qaeda leader, al Jolani, in New York.

They’ve done Libya and Syria — Algeria must be looking tempting.

https://x.com/IRIran_Military/status/19 ... 0401649980

Posted: **Thu Sep 25, 2025 9:55 pm**

From al-Qaida to the Upper East Side: Syria’s new leader makes his debut on the world stage

Ahmed al-Sharaa faces a tough task in reassuring the UN of his statesmanship while maintaining authority at home

‘What reconciliation? What forgiveness?’: Syria’s deadly reckoning

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... ions-syria

Posted: **Thu Sep 25, 2025 10:17 pm**

^^Find a woman who looks at you the way Georgia Meloni looks at former ISIS and al-Qaeda leader al-Jolani

Posted: **Fri Sep 26, 2025 1:57 am**

Tciso wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 5:25 pm
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 6:00 am If I announce myself as Profa (Pro Fascist) instead of Antifa (Anti fascist) would Trump remove me from his Terrorsist Group List? Should I join the Proud Boys - an American far-right, neo-fascist militant organization that promotes and engages in political violence. The group's leaders have been convicted of violently opposing the federal government of the United States, including its constitutionally prescribed transfer of presidential power. I don’t believe they are on Trumps list of domestic terrorist groups.

“Proud Boys, stand back and stand by,” Trump said. “But I’ll tell you what, I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing problem.”
Fascism is leftist, not far right.

Fascist parties have traditionally alligned with conservative parties to gain power, and their traditional enemy has been communists and socialists, although once they're in power they'll also go after the liberals.

BUT - Soviet style communism is nothing but fascism under another name, using different catch phrases. So to that extent, a lot of officially communist (or sometimes even calling themselves socialist) countries were basically fascist dictatorships. So it is easy to get confused.

Also, Mussolini was communist before he became fascist, so he borrowed some elements from communism into his right wing version of authoritarianism.

It gets even weirder. Mussolinis fascism inspired German nazism and Spanish falangism, who are clearly right wing. But then some parts were included in Argentina's Peronism, which tends to be considered left wing, and even into the Cuban version of communism, which has been an inspiration for Venezuela. When Spain's dictator Franco died, Castro announced a week of official grieving in Cuba. Like, wtf?

But yeah, fascism and communism are at such extreme ends of the political spectrum that they actually go full circle and resemble one another.

I actually don't see it useful to think of them in a left-right context. Left vs right is about distribution of money. Liberal vs authoritarian is about the rights of the individual vis-a-vis the state. Anarchy and libertarianism are the left and right versions of extreme liberalism. Communism and fascism are the left and right versions of extreme authoritarianism.

As a liberal at heart I can easily buy into the arguments of anarchists AND libertarians, albeit they are at different sides of the left-right dimension. But I abhor both communists and fascists, as I do not accept the right of the government to ignore individual rights.

My basic assumption is that the rights of the individual should trump the rights of the government, but of course there needs to be some compromise, as all individuals do not agree on everything, and therefore there must be some level of rules regulating to what level the rights of one individual is allowed to infringe on the rights of others. EG, in Sweden we have a freedom to roam, which means you are allowed to walk across private land, as long as you do not damage the property. A "no trespassing" sign in Sweden lacks all validity, as the right to roam trumps the right of the land owner to not let people through. But you are not allowed to walk across a planted field, as that would damage the crops, and if you go through a pasture, you must make sure to close any gate you open so that the animals in th epasture do not escape. There is always compromise. You should also avoid walking into someone's yard. Try to keep some distance from the house as people do have a right to privacy in their home. But if you want to go for a stroll in a forest or climb a nearby mountain you don't need to worry about who owns it.

Posted: **Fri Sep 26, 2025 3:35 am**

Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 6:39 pm
Tciso wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 5:25 pm
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 6:00 am If I announce myself as Profa (Pro Fascist) instead of Antifa (Anti fascist) would Trump remove me from his Terrorsist Group List? Should I join the Proud Boys - an American far-right, neo-fascist militant organization that promotes and engages in political violence. The group's leaders have been convicted of violently opposing the federal government of the United States, including its constitutionally prescribed transfer of presidential power. I don’t believe they are on Trumps list of domestic terrorist groups.

“Proud Boys, stand back and stand by,” Trump said. “But I’ll tell you what, I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing problem.”
Fascism is leftist, not far right.
Pulled from the Google

Fascist philosophies vary by application, but remain distinct by one theoretical commonality: all traditionally fall into the far-right sector of any political spectrum, catalyzed by afflicted class identities over conventional social inequities.

Associating the left and right with the size of the government is a newer, American thing. The left-right dichotomy is about equality and social progress. That's why anarchism is a far-left ideology, and fascism is a far-right ideology.

The funny thing about ideologies is that in terms of extremes they are no different than cardiac axis deviations. There's Left, Right, and then Extreme Axis.....nobody can tell which way they deviated to become extreme, they are just relatively opposed to the middle.

Posted: **Fri Sep 26, 2025 5:39 am**

Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 10:17 pm ^^Find a woman who looks at you the way Georgia Meloni looks at former ISIS and al-Qaeda leader al-Jolani

Well, they've both been part of and risen within the ranks of extreme authoritarian right wing organisations and now want to be seen as responsible heads of government. Him within Al Qaeda, her within the Italian fascist movement. I guess they can relate.

Posted: **Fri Sep 26, 2025 6:16 am**

Per wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 5:39 am
Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 10:17 pm ^^Find a woman who looks at you the way Georgia Meloni looks at former ISIS and al-Qaeda leader al-Jolani
Well, they've both been part of and risen within the ranks of extreme authoritarian right wing organisations and now want to be seen as responsible heads of government. Him within Al Qaeda, her within the Italian fascist movement. I guess they can relate.

lol

Posted: **Fri Sep 26, 2025 6:23 am**

Megaterio Llamas wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 9:55 pm
From al-Qaida to the Upper East Side: Syria’s new leader makes his debut on the world stage

Ahmed al-Sharaa faces a tough task in reassuring the UN of his statesmanship while maintaining authority at home

‘What reconciliation? What forgiveness?’: Syria’s deadly reckoning

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/ ... ions-syria

Is it just me or does he look like a muslim JD Vance?

The master of disguises!

Posted: **Fri Sep 26, 2025 7:09 am**

Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 6:39 pm
Tciso wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 5:25 pm
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 6:00 am If I announce myself as Profa (Pro Fascist) instead of Antifa (Anti fascist) would Trump remove me from his Terrorsist Group List? Should I join the Proud Boys - an American far-right, neo-fascist militant organization that promotes and engages in political violence. The group's leaders have been convicted of violently opposing the federal government of the United States, including its constitutionally prescribed transfer of presidential power. I don’t believe they are on Trumps list of domestic terrorist groups.

“Proud Boys, stand back and stand by,” Trump said. “But I’ll tell you what, I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing problem.”
Fascism is leftist, not far right.
Pulled from the Google

Fascist philosophies vary by application, but remain distinct by one theoretical commonality: all traditionally fall into the far-right sector of any political spectrum, catalyzed by afflicted class identities over conventional social inequities.

Associating the left and right with the size of the government is a newer, American thing. The left-right dichotomy is about equality and social progress. That's why anarchism is a far-left ideology, and fascism is a far-right ideology.

Communists want equality and new values, while fascists seek hierarchy and return to traditional values.

Fascism is right wing because it aligns with and votes alongside conservative and religious parties

An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.

The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43), and the regimes of the Nazis in Germany and Franco in Spain were also Fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach.

The name comes from Italian fascismo, from fascio ‘bundle, political group’, from Latin fascis ‘rod

The whole right-left dichotomy is silly once applied to post-liberal movements. Commies were the enemies of the fascists and they wished to propagate the idea they were opposite sides of the spectrum—after all, they were enemies. Of course, commies are also enemies of liberal democratics.

Fascists saw themselves as a third way, and I think there’s an argument for that. There’s also the x/y axis that measures libertarianism and authoritarianism on the vertical access, which is maybe more information, but it’s still not entirely clear to me what’s being measured from left to right.

If we were to have a linear spectrum, I think going from libertarianism on the one hand and totalitarianism on the other and lining up views along the way is more descriptive of overall similarities (but it is still imperfect).

Communism as originally conceived is an international dictatorship of the proletariat — it’s not about equality, there is a preferred class. Fascism as initially conceived has state above all, and the preferred class is the “nation”, which could mean state, country, or race depending on the variation.

Fascism as a right wing thing makes more sense perhaps in the European political context, because nationalism/internationalism is a more significant dividing line. Setting that aside, I think a mainstream conservative is as far away from a fascist as a mainstream left of center democrat, and communists and fascists have considerably more in common than those in the middle of their side. They hate each other so much in part because they are competing for the same broken hearts and minds to participate in their revolutions….

Posted: **Fri Sep 26, 2025 7:18 am**

Per wrote: ↑Fri Sep 26, 2025 1:57 am
Tciso wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 5:25 pm
Chef Boi RD wrote: ↑Thu Sep 25, 2025 6:00 am If I announce myself as Profa (Pro Fascist) instead of Antifa (Anti fascist) would Trump remove me from his Terrorsist Group List? Should I join the Proud Boys - an American far-right, neo-fascist militant organization that promotes and engages in political violence. The group's leaders have been convicted of violently opposing the federal government of the United States, including its constitutionally prescribed transfer of presidential power. I don’t believe they are on Trumps list of domestic terrorist groups.

“Proud Boys, stand back and stand by,” Trump said. “But I’ll tell you what, I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about antifa and the left because this is not a right-wing problem.”
Fascism is leftist, not far right.
Fascist parties have traditionally alligned with conservative parties to gain power, and their traditional enemy has been communists and socialists, although once they're in power they'll also go after the liberals.

BUT - Soviet style communism is nothing but fascism under another name, using different catch phrases. So to that extent, a lot of officially communist (or sometimes even calling themselves socialist) countries were basically fascist dictatorships. So it is easy to get confused.

Also, Mussolini was communist before he became fascist, so he borrowed some elements from communism into his right wing version of authoritarianism.

It gets even weirder. Mussolinis fascism inspired German nazism and Spanish falangism, who are clearly right wing. But then some parts were included in Argentina's Peronism, which tends to be considered left wing, and even into the Cuban version of communism, which has been an inspiration for Venezuela. When Spain's dictator Franco died, Castro announced a week of official grieving in Cuba. Like, wtf?

But yeah, fascism and communism are at such extreme ends of the political spectrum that they actually go full circle and resemble one another.

I actually don't see it useful to think of them in a left-right context. Left vs right is about distribution of money. Liberal vs authoritarian is about the rights of the individual vis-a-vis the state. Anarchy and libertarianism are the left and right versions of extreme liberalism. Communism and fascism are the left and right versions of extreme authoritarianism.

As a liberal at heart I can easily buy into the arguments of anarchists AND libertarians, albeit they are at different sides of the left-right dimension. But I abhor both communists and fascists, as I do not accept the right of the government to ignore individual rights.

My basic assumption is that the rights of the individual should trump the rights of the government, but of course there needs to be some compromise, as all individuals do not agree on everything, and therefore there must be some level of rules regulating to what level the rights of one individual is allowed to infringe on the rights of others. EG, in Sweden we have a freedom to roam, which means you are allowed to walk across private land, as long as you do not damage the property. A "no trespassing" sign in Sweden lacks all validity, as the right to roam trumps the right of the land owner to not let people through. But you are not allowed to walk across a planted field, as that would damage the crops, and if you go through a pasture, you must make sure to close any gate you open so that the animals in th epasture do not escape. There is always compromise. You should also avoid walking into someone's yard. Try to keep some distance from the house as people do have a right to privacy in their home. But if you want to go for a stroll in a forest or climb a nearby mountain you don't need to worry about who owns it.

I didn’t read this post before mine. We are saying very similar things from slightly different angles.

Where we might disagree is the degree which we think European populism is closer to liberal norms (political freedom/individual rights) or fascist rejection of those norms (nation above all). That answer is complicated by the fact those movements have people in them who disagree on the same question, and disagreement about whether political freedom and rights depends on finite polities or whether borders, etc are a bug in the system to eventually erode.

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