L GDT, Oct 13, Canucks on the Island, 4:45 pm PST, SNP

[Cornuck]

Should I phone Manny to tell him to put Lanky in net for the 3rd?

Guaranteed L.

[Lancer]

No need.

[theman]

That’s a weak ass call

[theman]

Horvat, #25 is the Pettersson that can fight.

[Megaterio Llamas]

Clutch effort theman.

On to Florida.

[UWSaint]

Zeev and Schenn were a train wreck.

Levi, good.

Ohgren better jump.

O’Connor is not a center.

I see a bit of progress in 5 and 25.

Boeser and Rossi should play together.

We are seeing the real Paul Cotter, I fear.

[theman]

Clutch effort theman.

On to Florida.

I had to dig deep for this one today.

[Ronning's Ghost]

Buium down to the third.

What's the deal with Buium? Snakebit? Sulking? Got his contract and checked out? Still a lot to learn?

[Megaterio Llamas]

Buium down to the third.

What's the deal with Buium? Snakebit? Sulking? Got his contract and checked out? Still a lot to learn?

A lot to learn, still. Playing 24 minutes on the first pairing on a really bad team is probably about the worst we could do for the kid, though that changed tonight. The contract pressure can't be helping either; maybe it's just a sophomore slump?

[Picker of Cherries]

Buium is currently the worst minus on the team at -6. He is definitely over-matched against top lines paired with Hronek at present and trying to figure things out. It’s a good time to move him down the line-up, reduce his minutes and take off the pressure, even sitting a game now and then could be beneficial.

On the positive side D-Petey currently leads the team at +6. He’s earning his increased role. I think playing at the start of the season with Schenn helped up his physical game. He’s playing better this season, and will likely help Hronek more in zone than Buium can at the moment. Hopefully Schenn can help Buium figure things out now that they are paired together.

[UWSaint]

Buium is currently the worst minus on the team at -6. He is definitely over-matched against top lines paired with Hronek at present and trying to figure things out. It’s a good time to move him down the line-up, reduce his minutes and take off the pressure, even sitting a game now and then could be beneficial.

On the positive side D-Petey currently leads the team at +6. He’s earning his increased role. I think playing at the start of the season with Schenn helped up his physical game. He’s playing better this season, and will likely help Hronek more in zone than Buium can at the moment. Hopefully Schenn can help Buium figure things out now that they are paired together.

Zeev earned his demotion, but unfortunately, things looked no better in the reduced role. While I think Schenn could be a good partner (typically provides predictability), last night Schenn played poorly. Its hard to get a handle on whether it was a bad night for both, or whether Zeev is just putting that much pressure on his partners.

My biggest concern with Zeev's development is that his response to getting beat has been to play more conservatively. That's a natural impulse, and the coaching staff should be intervening to fight against that impulse. Fact is, Zeev's -6 isn't due to bad outcomes on risk-reward plays. He's getting pushed around, his gaps have been too big, his play processing too slow, his identification of danger too poor. What makes the kid potentially special is his ability to push the play, join the rush, and put the other team on its back heel. You can't do that from your back heel, you can't do that when you play to not make mistakes. And that scared-to-error play correspondingly results in zero offense.

It kind of goes back to a caution I raised often with Greene and Tockey -- you don't develop simply (or even primarily) by getting better what you are bad at. Its not just about eliminating mistakes; its about causing the other team to make them. And you become a good NHL player when you can exploit your comparative advantage, and make it wider.

We saw this tentative disposition last year with Zeev, too, especially after a couple of weeks of being in Vancouver. In March or so, he began to turn that around and we had more glimpses of what made the guy a stellar college player and top prospect.

[Ronning's Ghost]

Buium is currently the worst minus on the team at -6. He is definitely over-matched against top lines paired with Hronek at present and trying to figure things out. It’s a good time to move him down the line-up, reduce his minutes and take off the pressure, even sitting a game now and then could be beneficial.

Fact is, Zeev's -6 isn't due to bad outcomes on risk-reward plays. He's getting pushed around, his gaps have been too big, his play processing too slow, his identification of danger too poor. What makes the kid potentially special is his ability to push the play, join the rush, and put the other team on its back heel. You can't do that from your back heel, you can't do that when you play to not make mistakes. And that scared-to-error play correspondingly results in zero offense.

So, mathematically, at least, could part of the -6 be that when Zeev makes good offensive decisions, that isn't reflected on his stat sheet because those aren't turning into goals, the way they might be if the rest of the team were doing better? Or do you think it has much more to do with not defending well enough?

I've read about a few young Canucks whose limitation seems to be the strength to win battles. I would have said that is one of the the most correctable athletic deficiencies there is. Do they have a strength coach? Is the training staff very concerned about what else they might have to give up to put on more muscle?

Edit: the only on-ice Canucks bad news that counts for me as actual bad news at this point is young players staying below their projected development curve, but that would really bad news -- especially in Buium's case.

[UWSaint]

...So, mathematically, at least, could part of the -6 be that when Zeev makes good offensive decisions, that isn't reflected on his stat sheet because those aren't turning into goals, the way they might be if the rest of the team were doing better? Or do you think it has much more to do with not defending well enough?

I think Zeev isn't producing anywhere close to producing enough offense. I'm factoring in the finish, its not the tyranny of bad luck and small sample sizes. Its tentative play.

I've read about a few young Canucks whose limitation seems to be the strength to win battles. I would have said that is one of the the most correctable athletic deficiencies there is. Do they have a strength coach? Is the training staff very concerned about what else they might have to give up to put on more muscle?

Edit: the only on-ice Canucks bad news that counts for me as actual bad news at this point is young players staying below their projected development curve, but that would really bad news -- especially in Buium's case.

Strength is, in part, a function of age and physical development. You can have your Ohgrens who are ahead of the curve whether by genetics, work, or both (compare with Sushi), but fact is that guys at that age (or younger like Zeev or Cootes) have a much lower ceiling than they will have when they are a bit older. If they don't have a strength & conditioning coach I'd be shocked. Every team should have them, and every player should have a personal trainer for the off season.

Zeev is lagging, IMO, but Sushi, EP25, and TW have all made some strides this year compared to last. That's something, but you'd rather the guy with the highest ceiling be the one making progress since he's the one with the best chance to become a core player. Ohgren seems very similar to last season. Never had a high chance of being a core guy, but should carve out a serviceable career with his speed and strength.

[Meds]

...So, mathematically, at least, could part of the -6 be that when Zeev makes good offensive decisions, that isn't reflected on his stat sheet because those aren't turning into goals, the way they might be if the rest of the team were doing better? Or do you think it has much more to do with not defending well enough?

I think Zeev isn't producing anywhere close to producing enough offense.

If that's the case would it be safe to say that he is producing nowhere close to producing enough of the offense that he should be producing when he his producing at his peak producing rate?

[UWSaint]

...So, mathematically, at least, could part of the -6 be that when Zeev makes good offensive decisions, that isn't reflected on his stat sheet because those aren't turning into goals, the way they might be if the rest of the team were doing better? Or do you think it has much more to do with not defending well enough?

I think Zeev isn't producing anywhere close to producing enough offense.

If that's the case would it be safe to say that he is producing nowhere close to producing enough of the offense that he should be producing when he his producing at his peak producing rate?

I don’t might feel strongly: