Canucks Young Guns

[Aaronp18]

Gonna go check out our boy Parker Alcos play for the Rockets for the first time tonight! I’ll see what we have and report back.

[donlever]

Braden Cootes is #34, comes in late.

https://x.com/i/status/2014947660126683231

[Aaronp18]

Gonna go check out our boy Parker Alcos play for the Rockets for the first time tonight! I’ll see what we have and report back.

Alcos seems like a solid steady defenseman, he's not flashy or driving the offensive but he skates very well and was put out in almost all key defensive situations. Easily had the most minutes of the Rockets defensemen.

Still very raw but with his skating ability and defensive awareness in his own end he could turn out to be a really steady bottom pairing d-man at the NHL level.

[Cornuck]

Good to hear, thanks for the update.

[Aaronp18]

Braden Cootes is #34, comes in late.

https://x.com/i/status/2014947660126683231

Nice to see a bit of truculence from the kid!

[UWSaint]

So the Canucks have had not insignificant playing time from 3 young defensemen: Zeev, TW, DEP. While Mancini hasn't shown much this year, based on what he did last year, I think its fair to think there is an NHL player in there if he stops the slide and picks up on his development last year. Add to this group in Abby that could have NHL futures (KK and Mynio), and Canucks young gun D and defensive prospects is a strength.

But what have we learned about these 3 guys this season, and where are they compared to where they might be?

(1) TW. I think Willander has shown the best, and has the highest floor and a decent reasonable ceiling. He plays a relatively calm, relatively smart game. The PP experiment, though not successful so far, is worthwhile because he hasn't had the chance to really be the primary guy on a PP and he passes well and is a good decisionmaker. The lack of big shot isn't that concerning if he can get the wrister through. Concerning about his game is his turns and acceleration needs to improve; he positions himself as if he were the best skater on the ice, and while he's a good skater, from a (near) standstill he's no match for NHL speed coming at him and frequently misjudges this. I think he's playing at a 4-6 level right now -- hard to tell because his minutes have been more protected than Zeev, in part because his right shot colleagues are the guys that are going to take minutes against the other team's skill or power forwards when match ups can be manufactured. But I think the floor is pretty high with TW, and that combined with a right shot means that he's at the beginning of a long NHL career. Upside? I can see him developing into a 2-3 guy who is either complements a true #1 or can be the glue on a second pairing. Would like to see a bit more physicality to become a Hronek-level player; needs that and a level up offensively to considered as capable for more, but given we haven't even seen him play many minutes against the best of the opposition, it far too soon to even speculate on the parts of the game we have seen and know needs to improve.

(2) Zeev -- highest ceiling, pretty low floor. In contrast to TW, Zeev has seen his share of ice time against more talented players, and the results haven't been that pretty. We've seen every kind of mistake in Zeev's game -- doesn't play two on 1's well (doesn't force the decision or block the pass), steps up at the wrong time and not for the body, carelessness with the puck high, suspect positioning in the D zone "half court". Many of these things really are teachable, including simply learning from what works and what doesn't, because there is a sufficient skill set there to work with. But if I am being honest, any team trying to win and with a decent top 5 and an offensive D option would probably have Zeev spend this season in the AHL. We've also seen the upsides in Zeev's game -- he is creative, he has good offensive IQ, he's fired some great breakout passes, when playing confidently he's looking for opportunity, he's not panicky (so when he puts more together, he's going to help possession and transition). This is the special kind of play that creates offense, not just with goals and assists. Today? He's playing at a 6-8 level. Future? I can see him as a #1. And I can see him falling into the offensive talent but defensive liability box. And I don't mean like Even Bouchard. More like Tyson Barrie.

(3) DEP. DEP's play last year was extremely encouraging, in part because he'd already (appeared) to have reached a level of play that is all you can ever reasonably expect from a 3rd rounder, and yet he was still young. And at that time there was a poll, and I still said his upside is 4-5 (a solid anchor to a third pairing or a guy that you aren't too concerned about taking more responsibility when there's an injury, but you probably don't plan your team around him getting 20+ minutes or anchoring a second pairing). This year, I think he's actually playing pretty much the same as he did last year, but the mistakes are turning into great chances much more. I love that he plays leaning forward -- but he still needs to pick his spots. Sometimes he's Juulsen-esque. And sometimes I think he plays forward because the turn is weak and so his only option is to force an event because he can't diffuse the event. That's the kind of think that is a chronic liability and chronic limitation. What's he now? 5-8. The fact you can't tell that much of a difference between the games he dresses and POJoseph dresses is an indication about where he is. I think the most pie in the sky projection for him would be Kevin Bieksa -- who actually had a lot of similar attributes (and demerits) when he came into the league. But Kev was much much older. DEP needs both standard progression and a "level up" kind of adjustment to get to what I think is a reasonable projected ceiling (4-5), but needs a couple levels up for more.

[Meds]

I think what you said about Buium also applies to DEP, and perhaps Willander.

...any team trying to win and with a decent top 5 and an offensive D option would probably have Zeev spend this season in the AHL.

It is very much an description of the stage of build the team is currently in.

[UWSaint]

I think what you said about Buium also applies to DEP, and perhaps Willander.

I think the area that Buium and DEP are most similar in terms of negatives is the frequency of their (questionable) step-up/fall back decisions, but Buium seems to be trying to make quick counters when they aren't likely and DEP is trying to make a hit/interfere because the benefit of playing off is much less if he's not going to be able to turn and neutralize the potential event as Buium might be able to. Both are leaving their partner in an unenviable situation way too much, but one (Zeev) is almost entirely a decisionmaking issue and the other (DEP) is heavily impacted by a skill deficit where higher risk plays are still the best choice given the other limitations, as well as a "hit" disposition that has its plusses and minuses.

I think WIllander's issue here is different. When he's getting similarly beat (less frequent), he's not making a choice to step up and failing; more likely he's a beat slow at identifying there's a decision to be made. I think there's a really good chance this is mostly due to lack of experience with the pace of play, and that with experience, he's going to be a lot better.

[JelloPuddingPop]

I think what you said about Buium also applies to DEP, and perhaps Willander.

I think the area that Buium and DEP are most similar in terms of negatives is the frequency of their (questionable) step-up/fall back decisions, but Buium seems to be trying to make quick counters when they aren't likely and DEP is trying to make a hit/interfere because the benefit of playing off is much less if he's not going to be able to turn and neutralize the potential event as Buium might be able to. Both are leaving their partner in an unenviable situation way too much, but one (Zeev) is almost entirely a decisionmaking issue and the other (DEP) is heavily impacted by a skill deficit where higher risk plays are still the best choice given the other limitations, as well as a "hit" disposition that has its plusses and minuses.

I think WIllander's issue here is different. When he's getting similarly beat (less frequent), he's not making a choice to step up and failing; more likely he's a beat slow at identifying there's a decision to be made. I think there's a really good chance this is mostly due to lack of experience with the pace of play, and that with experience, he's going to be a lot better.

They are so young yet - and I definitely agree, seasoning them in the AHL would be best case, if we had some healthy bodies to fill in.

How much of the "step-up and failing" do you think could be masked/helped by having competent center-ice/forwards who recognize that their young defense could use a bit more support? If, for example, all of EP40, Rossi, Chytil and Blueger were healthy and in the lineup - how many less issues would those step ups have? One or two less a game? Or less leading to goals against perhaps?

[Cornuck]

If the goal is to get them icetime, then they're pretty much getting that now.

If the goal is give them lessor competition so they can develop their skills, that's fine. My biggest worry is that the AHL has a big of a 'wild west' attitude, and as Megs has described in the past - there's a few headhunters down there, Abby doesn't seem to have any more of a deterrent than the big club.

I'm fine with them finding their game in the NHL - it's not like we have great replacements ready to step in. Watching the kids is pretty much all we have for the rest of this season and next.

[Lancer]

Another reason why management needs to go BPA with the first pick, even if it's Verhoeff: there's no guarantee any of TW, Buium or DEP will ever develop into a top or top-pairing D on a Championship team. There's a reason we talk about floors, and there are just as many reasons why these three would fall or stagnate in their development as there are otherwise. They may turn out to be nothing but 3,4,5, in the depth chart once this team contends again.

Until they prove unequivocally that they are top-3 on a contending team, there's some room for hope but search continues.

[Cousin Strawberry]

Another reason why management needs to go BPA with the first pick, even if it's Verhoeff: there's no guarantee any of TW, Buium or DEP will ever develop into a top or top-pairing D on a Championship team. There's a reason we talk about floors, and there are just as many reasons why these three would fall or stagnate in their development as there are otherwise. They may turn out to be nothing but 3,4,5, in the depth chart once this team contends again.

Until they prove unequivocally that they are top-3 on a contending team, there's some room for hope but search continues.

This is a solid post there Sir Lancelot. I've got some concerns that DPT is anything more than 5-6-7 when it's all said and done. As far as Tom or Zeev go, they've been just ok with small signs of improvement only. Nothing that screams top defender yet

[donlever]

https://x.com/i/status/2017038508381331711

[Lancer]

https://x.com/i/status/2017038508381331711

On the one hand, the kid is in his D+2 season and is closer to his 20th birthday than his 19th. This kind of production is not uncommon for kids that old.

On the other hand, it’s better than if he wasn’t.

[donlever]

Just looking for some positives Lancer my man...

...any little tidbit will do.