Canucks News N Notes 24-25
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- Carl Yagro
- MVP
- Posts: 1853
- Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:33 pm
- Location: On wide shoulders...
Re: Canucks News N Notes 24-25
Goes on a CN Rail of past injustices whenever having to stop at a railroad crossing. Shakes fist at the Act of Exclusion and having a Tax put on his Head.
Heavy is the Tarp... 

Re: Canucks News N Notes 24-25
Did someone run a train on Mëds?
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.
I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
- Carl Yagro
- MVP
- Posts: 1853
- Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:33 pm
- Location: On wide shoulders...
Re: Canucks News N Notes 24-25
Quite interesting to hear some of the things from the depths of 1/2 of the Baldies' hairless noggin...
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/qa ... s-in-2025/
The Leaves get mocked for these types of contracts where regular season PPG performances are like empty calories that have zero nutritional impact. Fortunately, we don't have a "core 4", but the extra $1M or so negotiated through pure ego could *maybe* have helped in other areas (um, defensive depth).
In a cap world, you need value contracts even from your top guys. You think you are the biggest straw? Start shaking and stirring the damn drink.
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/qa ... s-in-2025/
More than fair assessment. With the exception of the Captain, all could be playing much better.Allvin: I think it's fair to say that you expect your best players to be the difference-makers, and the best players when you need them. And unfortunately, I think we haven't got the most out of those specific guys. If those guys would have performed to their capability, I think. . . we probably would have won a couple of more games.
No doubt this regime has made some great depth acquisitions since they've been here... like 11.6 1.6 Pews Scooter.Sportsnet: The positive story no one talks about is the contributions from your depth forwards, like 12 goals from Kiefer Sherwood, 17 points from Teddy Blueger, 15 points from Danton Heinen, 11 goals and 19 points from Pius Suter. Are the depth players the main reason you’re not lower in the standings?
Allvin: I definitely think that's fair. I think those guys that you mentioned have performed well, understanding how we need to play. But you still need a final punch with the top players being there to close out a game.
What? Is the GM subtly saying what some of us here at this GDHTMB have brought up?Sportsnet: Regarding those top players, Quinn Hughes has been fabulous on defence. Goaltender Thatcher Demko and forwards J.T. Miller and Brock Boeser all missed significant time, and then struggled to regain top form. And Filip Hronek is still out. But what about Elias Pettersson, who didn’t miss a game until Saturday?
Allvin: I think, again, it comes back to expectations and preparation, how you prepare yourself. I don't believe that he was aware of just how hard it was going to be. Just because you achieve one thing to get a long-term extension. . . life just gets harder. You haven't really accomplished anything. You're not even halfway there (to winning a Stanley Cup). And then obviously the mental part comes in there, too, and suddenly you feel the pressure.
Sportsnet: You do have an out on that contract because Pettersson’s trade protection doesn’t start until next season. But is moving your 26-year-old star actually possible?
Allvin (smiling): Well, you know Jim's history.
We want to build a team that sets us up for long-term success. Building around the long-term deals with Miller and Petey, having Quinn and Demko locked up, Filip Hronek and Jake DeBrusk, I mean, those are big pieces. Petey has shown up to this point that he is an extremely talented, quality player that could and should be a No. 1 centre. I believe in him. I believe that he's capable. (But) he needs to mature and understand that there are certain expectations and it does not get easier. And you need to face the music when things don't go well. Is it (a trade) possible? I guess I would say anything is possible.

The Leaves get mocked for these types of contracts where regular season PPG performances are like empty calories that have zero nutritional impact. Fortunately, we don't have a "core 4", but the extra $1M or so negotiated through pure ego could *maybe* have helped in other areas (um, defensive depth).
In a cap world, you need value contracts even from your top guys. You think you are the biggest straw? Start shaking and stirring the damn drink.
Heavy is the Tarp... 

Re: Canucks News N Notes 24-25
Again, I am elite talent.Carl Yagro wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 11:12 am Quite interesting to hear some of the things from the depths of 1/2 of the Baldies' hairless noggin...
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/qa ... s-in-2025/
More than fair assessment. With the exception of the Captain, all could be playing much better.Allvin: I think it's fair to say that you expect your best players to be the difference-makers, and the best players when you need them. And unfortunately, I think we haven't got the most out of those specific guys. If those guys would have performed to their capability, I think. . . we probably would have won a couple of more games.
No doubt this regime has made some great depth acquisitions since they've been here... like 11.6 1.6 Pews Scooter.Sportsnet: The positive story no one talks about is the contributions from your depth forwards, like 12 goals from Kiefer Sherwood, 17 points from Teddy Blueger, 15 points from Danton Heinen, 11 goals and 19 points from Pius Suter. Are the depth players the main reason you’re not lower in the standings?
Allvin: I definitely think that's fair. I think those guys that you mentioned have performed well, understanding how we need to play. But you still need a final punch with the top players being there to close out a game.
What? Is the GM subtly saying what some of us here at this GDHTMB have brought up?Sportsnet: Regarding those top players, Quinn Hughes has been fabulous on defence. Goaltender Thatcher Demko and forwards J.T. Miller and Brock Boeser all missed significant time, and then struggled to regain top form. And Filip Hronek is still out. But what about Elias Pettersson, who didn’t miss a game until Saturday?
Allvin: I think, again, it comes back to expectations and preparation, how you prepare yourself. I don't believe that he was aware of just how hard it was going to be. Just because you achieve one thing to get a long-term extension. . . life just gets harder. You haven't really accomplished anything. You're not even halfway there (to winning a Stanley Cup). And then obviously the mental part comes in there, too, and suddenly you feel the pressure.
Sportsnet: You do have an out on that contract because Pettersson’s trade protection doesn’t start until next season. But is moving your 26-year-old star actually possible?
Allvin (smiling): Well, you know Jim's history.
We want to build a team that sets us up for long-term success. Building around the long-term deals with Miller and Petey, having Quinn and Demko locked up, Filip Hronek and Jake DeBrusk, I mean, those are big pieces. Petey has shown up to this point that he is an extremely talented, quality player that could and should be a No. 1 centre. I believe in him. I believe that he's capable. (But) he needs to mature and understand that there are certain expectations and it does not get easier. And you need to face the music when things don't go well. Is it (a trade) possible? I guess I would say anything is possible.![]()
The Leaves get mocked for these types of contracts where regular season PPG performances are like empty calories that have zero nutritional impact. Fortunately, we don't have a "core 4", but the extra $1M or so negotiated through pure ego could *maybe* have helped in other areas (um, defensive depth).
In a cap world, you need value contracts even from your top guys. You think you are the biggest straw? Start shaking and stirring the damn drink.
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.
I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
- Cousin Strawberry
- MVP
- Posts: 8079
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 pm
- Location: in the shed with a fresh packed bowl
Re: Canucks News N Notes 24-25
A very interesting interview. It can't be any more clear they aren't happy with Pouty and possibly Brock as well. JTs drama could be him pissed at the Pouter and wanting to wring his neck lolCarl Yagro wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 11:12 am Quite interesting to hear some of the things from the depths of 1/2 of the Baldies' hairless noggin...
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/qa ... s-in-2025/
More than fair assessment. With the exception of the Captain, all could be playing much better.Allvin: I think it's fair to say that you expect your best players to be the difference-makers, and the best players when you need them. And unfortunately, I think we haven't got the most out of those specific guys. If those guys would have performed to their capability, I think. . . we probably would have won a couple of more games.
No doubt this regime has made some great depth acquisitions since they've been here... like 11.6 1.6 Pews Scooter.Sportsnet: The positive story no one talks about is the contributions from your depth forwards, like 12 goals from Kiefer Sherwood, 17 points from Teddy Blueger, 15 points from Danton Heinen, 11 goals and 19 points from Pius Suter. Are the depth players the main reason you’re not lower in the standings?
Allvin: I definitely think that's fair. I think those guys that you mentioned have performed well, understanding how we need to play. But you still need a final punch with the top players being there to close out a game.
What? Is the GM subtly saying what some of us here at this GDHTMB have brought up?Sportsnet: Regarding those top players, Quinn Hughes has been fabulous on defence. Goaltender Thatcher Demko and forwards J.T. Miller and Brock Boeser all missed significant time, and then struggled to regain top form. And Filip Hronek is still out. But what about Elias Pettersson, who didn’t miss a game until Saturday?
Allvin: I think, again, it comes back to expectations and preparation, how you prepare yourself. I don't believe that he was aware of just how hard it was going to be. Just because you achieve one thing to get a long-term extension. . . life just gets harder. You haven't really accomplished anything. You're not even halfway there (to winning a Stanley Cup). And then obviously the mental part comes in there, too, and suddenly you feel the pressure.
Sportsnet: You do have an out on that contract because Pettersson’s trade protection doesn’t start until next season. But is moving your 26-year-old star actually possible?
Allvin (smiling): Well, you know Jim's history.
We want to build a team that sets us up for long-term success. Building around the long-term deals with Miller and Petey, having Quinn and Demko locked up, Filip Hronek and Jake DeBrusk, I mean, those are big pieces. Petey has shown up to this point that he is an extremely talented, quality player that could and should be a No. 1 centre. I believe in him. I believe that he's capable. (But) he needs to mature and understand that there are certain expectations and it does not get easier. And you need to face the music when things don't go well. Is it (a trade) possible? I guess I would say anything is possible.![]()
The Leaves get mocked for these types of contracts where regular season PPG performances are like empty calories that have zero nutritional impact. Fortunately, we don't have a "core 4", but the extra $1M or so negotiated through pure ego could *maybe* have helped in other areas (um, defensive depth).
In a cap world, you need value contracts even from your top guys. You think you are the biggest straw? Start shaking and stirring the damn drink.
If I was predicting I'd say if he doesn't figure it out soon he's on his way
If you need air...call it in
- Chef Boi RD
- MVP
- Posts: 10307
- Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:36 pm
- Location: Vancouver
Re: Canucks News N Notes 24-25
Sounds like he took a couple subtle digs at Tocchets coaching this year as well. Sounds like a GM deflecting blame if you ask me. But in the end, the buck ($11.6 Shmill) stops with him and Ruthy.
”This was how twentieth-century Fascism began: with a magnetic leader exploiting widespread dissatisfaction by promising all things.” - Madeleine K. Albright - Fascism: A Warning
Re: Canucks News N Notes 24-25
Just wanted to quote the interview again in case anyone missed it the first 3 fucking times.Cousin Strawberry wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 4:18 pmA very interesting interview. It can't be any more clear they aren't happy with Pouty and possibly Brock as well. JTs drama could be him pissed at the Pouter and wanting to wring his neck lolCarl Yagro wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 11:12 am Quite interesting to hear some of the things from the depths of 1/2 of the Baldies' hairless noggin...
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/qa ... s-in-2025/
More than fair assessment. With the exception of the Captain, all could be playing much better.Allvin: I think it's fair to say that you expect your best players to be the difference-makers, and the best players when you need them. And unfortunately, I think we haven't got the most out of those specific guys. If those guys would have performed to their capability, I think. . . we probably would have won a couple of more games.
No doubt this regime has made some great depth acquisitions since they've been here... like 11.6 1.6 Pews Scooter.Sportsnet: The positive story no one talks about is the contributions from your depth forwards, like 12 goals from Kiefer Sherwood, 17 points from Teddy Blueger, 15 points from Danton Heinen, 11 goals and 19 points from Pius Suter. Are the depth players the main reason you’re not lower in the standings?
Allvin: I definitely think that's fair. I think those guys that you mentioned have performed well, understanding how we need to play. But you still need a final punch with the top players being there to close out a game.
What? Is the GM subtly saying what some of us here at this GDHTMB have brought up?Sportsnet: Regarding those top players, Quinn Hughes has been fabulous on defence. Goaltender Thatcher Demko and forwards J.T. Miller and Brock Boeser all missed significant time, and then struggled to regain top form. And Filip Hronek is still out. But what about Elias Pettersson, who didn’t miss a game until Saturday?
Allvin: I think, again, it comes back to expectations and preparation, how you prepare yourself. I don't believe that he was aware of just how hard it was going to be. Just because you achieve one thing to get a long-term extension. . . life just gets harder. You haven't really accomplished anything. You're not even halfway there (to winning a Stanley Cup). And then obviously the mental part comes in there, too, and suddenly you feel the pressure.
Sportsnet: You do have an out on that contract because Pettersson’s trade protection doesn’t start until next season. But is moving your 26-year-old star actually possible?
Allvin (smiling): Well, you know Jim's history.
We want to build a team that sets us up for long-term success. Building around the long-term deals with Miller and Petey, having Quinn and Demko locked up, Filip Hronek and Jake DeBrusk, I mean, those are big pieces. Petey has shown up to this point that he is an extremely talented, quality player that could and should be a No. 1 centre. I believe in him. I believe that he's capable. (But) he needs to mature and understand that there are certain expectations and it does not get easier. And you need to face the music when things don't go well. Is it (a trade) possible? I guess I would say anything is possible.![]()
The Leaves get mocked for these types of contracts where regular season PPG performances are like empty calories that have zero nutritional impact. Fortunately, we don't have a "core 4", but the extra $1M or so negotiated through pure ego could *maybe* have helped in other areas (um, defensive depth).
In a cap world, you need value contracts even from your top guys. You think you are the biggest straw? Start shaking and stirring the damn drink.
If I was predicting I'd say if he doesn't figure it out soon he's on his way
DeLevering since 1999.
Re: Canucks News N Notes 24-25
Elite Talent taught you the quote functiondonlever wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 5:01 pmJust wanted to quote the interview again in case anyone missed it the first 3 fucking times.Cousin Strawberry wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 4:18 pmA very interesting interview. It can't be any more clear they aren't happy with Pouty and possibly Brock as well. JTs drama could be him pissed at the Pouter and wanting to wring his neck lolCarl Yagro wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 11:12 am Quite interesting to hear some of the things from the depths of 1/2 of the Baldies' hairless noggin...
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/qa ... s-in-2025/
More than fair assessment. With the exception of the Captain, all could be playing much better.Allvin: I think it's fair to say that you expect your best players to be the difference-makers, and the best players when you need them. And unfortunately, I think we haven't got the most out of those specific guys. If those guys would have performed to their capability, I think. . . we probably would have won a couple of more games.
No doubt this regime has made some great depth acquisitions since they've been here... like 11.6 1.6 Pews Scooter.Sportsnet: The positive story no one talks about is the contributions from your depth forwards, like 12 goals from Kiefer Sherwood, 17 points from Teddy Blueger, 15 points from Danton Heinen, 11 goals and 19 points from Pius Suter. Are the depth players the main reason you’re not lower in the standings?
Allvin: I definitely think that's fair. I think those guys that you mentioned have performed well, understanding how we need to play. But you still need a final punch with the top players being there to close out a game.
What? Is the GM subtly saying what some of us here at this GDHTMB have brought up?Sportsnet: Regarding those top players, Quinn Hughes has been fabulous on defence. Goaltender Thatcher Demko and forwards J.T. Miller and Brock Boeser all missed significant time, and then struggled to regain top form. And Filip Hronek is still out. But what about Elias Pettersson, who didn’t miss a game until Saturday?
Allvin: I think, again, it comes back to expectations and preparation, how you prepare yourself. I don't believe that he was aware of just how hard it was going to be. Just because you achieve one thing to get a long-term extension. . . life just gets harder. You haven't really accomplished anything. You're not even halfway there (to winning a Stanley Cup). And then obviously the mental part comes in there, too, and suddenly you feel the pressure.
Sportsnet: You do have an out on that contract because Pettersson’s trade protection doesn’t start until next season. But is moving your 26-year-old star actually possible?
Allvin (smiling): Well, you know Jim's history.
We want to build a team that sets us up for long-term success. Building around the long-term deals with Miller and Petey, having Quinn and Demko locked up, Filip Hronek and Jake DeBrusk, I mean, those are big pieces. Petey has shown up to this point that he is an extremely talented, quality player that could and should be a No. 1 centre. I believe in him. I believe that he's capable. (But) he needs to mature and understand that there are certain expectations and it does not get easier. And you need to face the music when things don't go well. Is it (a trade) possible? I guess I would say anything is possible.![]()
The Leaves get mocked for these types of contracts where regular season PPG performances are like empty calories that have zero nutritional impact. Fortunately, we don't have a "core 4", but the extra $1M or so negotiated through pure ego could *maybe* have helped in other areas (um, defensive depth).
In a cap world, you need value contracts even from your top guys. You think you are the biggest straw? Start shaking and stirring the damn drink.
If I was predicting I'd say if he doesn't figure it out soon he's on his way
Over the Internet, you can pretend to be anyone or anything.
I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
I'm amazed that so many people choose to be complete twats.
Re: Canucks News N Notes 24-25
At least you were able to teach me something.Topper wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 5:04 pmElite Talent taught you the quote functiondonlever wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 5:01 pmJust wanted to quote the interview again in case anyone missed it the first 3 fucking times.Cousin Strawberry wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 4:18 pmA very interesting interview. It can't be any more clear they aren't happy with Pouty and possibly Brock as well. JTs drama could be him pissed at the Pouter and wanting to wring his neck lolCarl Yagro wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 11:12 am Quite interesting to hear some of the things from the depths of 1/2 of the Baldies' hairless noggin...
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/qa ... s-in-2025/
More than fair assessment. With the exception of the Captain, all could be playing much better.Allvin: I think it's fair to say that you expect your best players to be the difference-makers, and the best players when you need them. And unfortunately, I think we haven't got the most out of those specific guys. If those guys would have performed to their capability, I think. . . we probably would have won a couple of more games.
No doubt this regime has made some great depth acquisitions since they've been here... like 11.6 1.6 Pews Scooter.Sportsnet: The positive story no one talks about is the contributions from your depth forwards, like 12 goals from Kiefer Sherwood, 17 points from Teddy Blueger, 15 points from Danton Heinen, 11 goals and 19 points from Pius Suter. Are the depth players the main reason you’re not lower in the standings?
Allvin: I definitely think that's fair. I think those guys that you mentioned have performed well, understanding how we need to play. But you still need a final punch with the top players being there to close out a game.
What? Is the GM subtly saying what some of us here at this GDHTMB have brought up?Sportsnet: Regarding those top players, Quinn Hughes has been fabulous on defence. Goaltender Thatcher Demko and forwards J.T. Miller and Brock Boeser all missed significant time, and then struggled to regain top form. And Filip Hronek is still out. But what about Elias Pettersson, who didn’t miss a game until Saturday?
Allvin: I think, again, it comes back to expectations and preparation, how you prepare yourself. I don't believe that he was aware of just how hard it was going to be. Just because you achieve one thing to get a long-term extension. . . life just gets harder. You haven't really accomplished anything. You're not even halfway there (to winning a Stanley Cup). And then obviously the mental part comes in there, too, and suddenly you feel the pressure.
Sportsnet: You do have an out on that contract because Pettersson’s trade protection doesn’t start until next season. But is moving your 26-year-old star actually possible?
Allvin (smiling): Well, you know Jim's history.
We want to build a team that sets us up for long-term success. Building around the long-term deals with Miller and Petey, having Quinn and Demko locked up, Filip Hronek and Jake DeBrusk, I mean, those are big pieces. Petey has shown up to this point that he is an extremely talented, quality player that could and should be a No. 1 centre. I believe in him. I believe that he's capable. (But) he needs to mature and understand that there are certain expectations and it does not get easier. And you need to face the music when things don't go well. Is it (a trade) possible? I guess I would say anything is possible.![]()
The Leaves get mocked for these types of contracts where regular season PPG performances are like empty calories that have zero nutritional impact. Fortunately, we don't have a "core 4", but the extra $1M or so negotiated through pure ego could *maybe* have helped in other areas (um, defensive depth).
In a cap world, you need value contracts even from your top guys. You think you are the biggest straw? Start shaking and stirring the damn drink.
If I was predicting I'd say if he doesn't figure it out soon he's on his way
DeLevering since 1999.
- Strangelove
- Moderator & MVP
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- JelloPuddingPop
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Re: Canucks News N Notes 24-25
I think both are upper body - as coach said they'd continue to skate while away. Keep in shape etc.Cousin Strawberry wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2024 4:20 pmI'm thinking broken bone in his foot then. He blocked a big blast just before Xmas
Re: Canucks News N Notes 24-25
I don’t even know what to quote and clip anymore….so I won’t.
But…..
Cuz, I don’t think there’s a reason to be pissed at Boeser. When you factor his concussion, it’s a toss up between him and Garland for who has been our most consistent forward this year in the top 6. Neither of them are guys who will carry a line, they both need a quality performing center…..neither have had that this year.
And…..
Based upon Alvin’s comments, I wonder if Pettersson’s injury is very minor and they are holding him out while a trade is finalized as we come out of the Christmas roster freeze.
Clearly Allvin has been lurking here though.
But…..
Cuz, I don’t think there’s a reason to be pissed at Boeser. When you factor his concussion, it’s a toss up between him and Garland for who has been our most consistent forward this year in the top 6. Neither of them are guys who will carry a line, they both need a quality performing center…..neither have had that this year.
And…..
Based upon Alvin’s comments, I wonder if Pettersson’s injury is very minor and they are holding him out while a trade is finalized as we come out of the Christmas roster freeze.
Clearly Allvin has been lurking here though.
Somewhere in NW BC trying (yet again) to trade a(nother) Swede…..
- Cousin Strawberry
- MVP
- Posts: 8079
- Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 pm
- Location: in the shed with a fresh packed bowl
Re: Canucks News N Notes 24-25
Alvin has been consistently critical of BB for quite a while now even though he's been pretty consistent with his production.Mëds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 7:59 pm I don’t even know what to quote and clip anymore….so I won’t.
But…..
Cuz, I don’t think there’s a reason to be pissed at Boeser. When you factor his concussion, it’s a toss up between him and Garland for who has been our most consistent forward this year in the top 6. Neither of them are guys who will carry a line, they both need a quality performing center…..neither have had that this year.
And…..
Based upon Alvin’s comments, I wonder if Pettersson’s injury is very minor and they are holding him out while a trade is finalized as we come out of the Christmas roster freeze.
Clearly Allvin has been lurking here though.
I think it's the whole slow foot thing. I wouldn't be surprised if Brock is the one he moves for a D, cutting against the grain of popular opinion
If you need air...call it in
Re: Canucks News N Notes 24-25
Brock would bring the largest return…..but from a contender who needs a 35-45 goal scorer that plays 200 feet and will score any which way…..wrist shot, tip, dirty goal, one-timer.Cousin Strawberry wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 8:02 pmAlvin has been consistently critical of BB for quite a while now even though he's been pretty consistent with his production.Mëds wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2024 7:59 pm I don’t even know what to quote and clip anymore….so I won’t.
But…..
Cuz, I don’t think there’s a reason to be pissed at Boeser. When you factor his concussion, it’s a toss up between him and Garland for who has been our most consistent forward this year in the top 6. Neither of them are guys who will carry a line, they both need a quality performing center…..neither have had that this year.
And…..
Based upon Alvin’s comments, I wonder if Pettersson’s injury is very minor and they are holding him out while a trade is finalized as we come out of the Christmas roster freeze.
Clearly Allvin has been lurking here though.
I think it's the whole slow foot thing. I wouldn't be surprised if Brock is the one he moves for a D, cutting against the grain of popular opinion
I haven’t really heard Allvin being especially, or particularly, critical of Brock.
The return would have to be astronomically good, and utterly team changing (for the better) to keep me interested in this team if they were to keep Pettersson and deal Boeser.
Somewhere in NW BC trying (yet again) to trade a(nother) Swede…..