The Great Jim Benning Debate! (And personal insult thread)

[Chef Boi RD]

I think Grabner does have some relevance, because its the loss of all players in Grabner's generation that has left Benning in the position he's in, and its the reason he can't do a quick re-tool like the Sharks and Ducks (as IN pointed out).

I'm not saying Grabner is the cure to all of the Canucks problems, but he's emblematic of the problem of having practically nothing to show for a decade of drafting.

My point is, there's nothing Benning could have done to make up for essentially no first round picks from 2005 to 2012, and Mason Raymond being the best forward drafted in that period that had an impact for the Canucks.

The rebuild had started under Gillis' watch, and the biggest piece of the youth movement thus far was acquired by Gillis. It continued in Benning's year one with the team trading two of their veteran top-4 D and one of the best shutdown centers in the game. In spite of re-building and shipping out vets, Benning's team made the playoffs on the strength of a Sedin bounceback and one solid UFA signing in Vrbata.

Now we're in year 3 (or 3.5, going back to the Luongo trade) of the re-build, with 4 players remaining from 2013/14, and surprise surprise its painful. With a 70+ point bounceback by the Sedins and a Vrbata-like performance from Eriksson, we may be a playoff team again, but its much more unlikely for the stars to align at this stage of the re-build. Alternatively, if the Sedins maintain and Horvat, Baertschi, Boeser get 60+ points, we could be right in the thick of it.

But what more can you really ask in a re-build? Young players are getting a shot, high picks are being acquired, vets have been shipped out steadily for 3 years, and there is a sliver of hope that with a lot of good luck, they can be competitive.

That is one helluva post right there!

I second that!

[Strangelove]

Look at how teams like Phoenix and Toronto are doing it by acquiring EXTRA picks.

Those teams have far better young players/prospects than Vancouver. THAT should be the goal.

Which EXTRA picks have provided these teams with the "far better young players" of which you speak?

Sigh, they've made deals trading veterans for picks/prospects over the last three deadlines in terms of the Coyotes and in 2015 and 2016 for the leaves. Carolina has done much the same thing.

Total draft picks made in the last four NHL drafts:

Vancouver: 27 (including 6 first round picks)
Arizona: 29 (including 6 first round picks)
Carolina: 29 (including 5 first round picks)
Toronto: 31 (including 4 first round picks)

I think your Canucks have signed more young college/junior players to close any perceived gap.

These teams have far deeper and better pools of young players and prospects than Vancouver.

Wrong.

Which EXTRA picks have provided these teams with the "far better young players" of which you speak?

As an aside... Current 2017 Draft Picks:

Carolina: 8
Vancouver: 7
Arizona: 7
Toronto: 5 (Tuna says "the rebuild is over")

[Blob Mckenzie]

And right on cue here comes Asperger Boy the love child of an East Indian night club owner and a poor Scottish dwarf who frequented the downtown east side.

[Chef Boi RD]

Look at how teams like Phoenix and Toronto are doing it by acquiring EXTRA picks.

Those teams have far better young players/prospects than Vancouver. THAT should be the goal.

Which EXTRA picks have provided these teams with the "far better young players" of which you speak?

Sigh, they've made deals trading veterans for picks/prospects over the last three deadlines in terms of the Coyotes and in 2015 and 2016 for the leaves. Carolina has done much the same thing.

Total draft picks made in the last four NHL drafts:

Vancouver: 27 (including 6 first round picks)
Arizona: 29 (including 6 first round picks)
Carolina: 29 (including 5 first round picks)
Toronto: 31 (including 4 first round picks)

I think your Canucks have signed more young college/junior players to close any perceived gap.

These teams have far deeper and better pools of young players and prospects than Vancouver.

Wrong.

Which EXTRA picks have provided these teams with the "far better young players" of which you speak?

As an aside... Current 2017 Draft Picks:

Carolina: 8
Vancouver: 7
Arizona: 7
Toronto: 5 (Tuna says "the rebuild is over")

Nice work, Doc!

[Blob Mckenzie]

It was nice to have adult debate with HW and Esq and actually share different points of view. I should have known that was short lived when the lil guzzlers got on mommy and daddy's computer

[Strangelove]

Oh shit, someone finally called me out on my bullshit!!

[Blob Mckenzie]

Oh shit, someone finally called me out on my bullshit!!

Keep in keepin on and thanks for the laughs .

Next you will tell me Vancouver has the best group of young players in the league. Whacking around Lumpy and Dumpy is like going fishing with dynamite

[Strangelove]

Which EXTRA picks have provided these teams with the "far better young players" of which you speak?

[Blob Mckenzie]

Which EXTRA picks have provided these teams with the "far better young players" of which you speak?

You can research this yourself. I know off the top of my head that all of those teams have flogged older players at or before the deadline over the past few years. I also know that all three of these teams have deeper and more talented groups of young players. Only a homer or a retard would disagree.

[Strangelove]

Look at how teams like Phoenix and Toronto are doing it by acquiring EXTRA picks.

Those teams have far better young players/prospects than Vancouver. THAT should be the goal.

Which EXTRA picks have provided these teams with the "far better young players" of which you speak?

Sigh, they've made deals trading veterans for picks/prospects over the last three deadlines in terms of the Coyotes and in 2015 and 2016 for the leaves. Carolina has done much the same thing.

Total draft picks made in the last four NHL drafts:

Vancouver: 27 (including 6 first round picks)
Arizona: 29 (including 6 first round picks)
Carolina: 29 (including 5 first round picks)
Toronto: 31 (including 4 first round picks)

I think your Canucks have signed more young college/junior players to close any perceived gap.

These teams have far deeper and better pools of young players and prospects than Vancouver.

Wrong.

Which EXTRA picks have provided these teams with the "far better young players" of which you speak?

As an aside... Current 2017 Draft Picks:

Carolina: 8
Vancouver: 7
Arizona: 7
Toronto: 5 (Tuna says "the rebuild is over")

[Blob Mckenzie]

You're going to make Reefer angry

[Island Nucklehead]

Total draft picks made in the last four NHL drafts:

Vancouver: 27 (including 6 first round picks)
Arizona: 29 (including 6 first round picks)
Carolina: 29 (including 5 first round picks)
Toronto: 31 (including 4 first round picks)

As an aside... Current 2017 Draft Picks:

Carolina: 8
Vancouver: 7
Arizona: 7
Toronto: 5 (Tuna says "the rebuild is over")

Vancouver has traded or lost 4 of those 27. Of the 7 who have played NHL games, only three are still with the Franchise. 2 of those 6 first round picks have been dealt.

Top-100 picks made last 4 drafts:

Vancouver: 11 - includes McCann, Tryamkin, Shinkaruk...
Carolina: 16
Toronto: 16
Arizona: 17
Boston: 14
Calgary: 15
Edmonton: 14
Tampa Bay: 15
New York Rangers: 11
Chicago: 13
Anaheim: 14
San Jose: 11


For a rebuilding team, it's probably not a good sign that even teams in win-now mode are drafting more in the higher-ends of the draft... hardly seems like a good way to catch up to them.

[Chef Boi RD]

Demko, Tryamkin, Gaudette, Lockwood, Brisebios, Forsling all drafted outside the 1st round. Boeser drafted 23rd overall. She-ite Batman that's some damn fine drafting outside the lottery zone in just 3 drafts. In 6 drafts outside the lottery zone from Gillis all we have to show for is Hutton, that is gawd damn miserable. Benning is tracking nicely if he keeps finding gems later in the draft unlike Gilleye

[Strangelove]

Total draft picks made in the last four NHL drafts:

Vancouver: 27 (including 6 first round picks)
Arizona: 29 (including 6 first round picks)
Carolina: 29 (including 5 first round picks)
Toronto: 31 (including 4 first round picks)

As an aside... Current 2017 Draft Picks:

Carolina: 8
Vancouver: 7
Arizona: 7
Toronto: 5 (Tuna says "the rebuild is over")

Top-100 picks made last 4 drafts:

Vancouver: 11 - includes McCann, Tryamkin, Shinkaruk...
Carolina: 16
Toronto: 16
Arizona: 17

Top-66 picks made last 4 drafts:

Arizona: 12
Vancouver: 10
Toronto: 10
Carolina 9

(average number of Top-66 picks per team in last 4 drafts = 8.8)

(half of the teams you "randomly" chose had less than 8.8... your Rangers had just 4 in the Top-66)

The average number of Top-66 picks per year per team is 2.2.

Your Vancouver Canucks currently hold 4 Top-66 picks so far (incl Cbs pick) in the 2017 draft.

As of now they stand to end up 2nd in total Top-66 picks from 2013-17 (14 Top-66 picks).

(average will be 11)

Not too shabby.

EDIT: 42nd overall Dahlen, 27th o/a Goldobin should be added, total = 16 = 1st in Top-66 picks!

I know you're trying to change the conversation but

... I came into this conversation to challenge an assertion made by your bum buddy blob.

[Blob Mckenzie]

Lol said the klown who thinks Vancouver has more young talent than Toronto, Carolina and Phoenix .