US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24 *AND* Beyond

[Topper]

90 days is not a ban

[ukcanuck]

90 days is not a ban

90 days for some, indefinite for others

It's not a trifling delay either

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... n-lawsuits

[ukcanuck]

trial balloon for a coup?

sounds about right

protest fatigue

http://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial- ... .h7r9x5130

[Cornuck]

Ban or no ban - anti-muslim or not - this whole order was a clusterfuck and shows either an incompetent administration or an attempt to sow chaos and confusion.

You send out a poorly written order, don't have it vetted by any departments it affects and don't warn the people directly responsible for its implementation. Running a government through what appears to be an 'inner circle' of neophytes doesn't seem to be the way run a large country - but hey, if the system worked for trump's casinos, what could go wrong?

[Strangelove]

Right, and then they passed another law regarding immigration in 1965, which specifically bans discrimination based on nationality. Many lawyers argue that the wording of the ban may violate this law.

***MASTERFUL RESPONSE BY STRANGELOVE***

First of all, you are referring to the visa waiver programme, ie rules determining who can travel to the USA without a visa. People who do not fulfill those requirements may still be able to travel to the USA, but then need to apply for a visa, which may be denied or granted on an individual basis.

The difference here is that the executive order signed by Trump completely eliminates the possibility for nationals from seven specific countries to travel to the USA, including people who were born there but are now nationals of other countries.

Yes I realize the differences I was merely pointing out the progression since 1965

... in response to your "1965 immigration law bans discrimination based on nationality" comment.

POINT: Twas your fucking Obama who passed laws to bring back "discrimination based on nationality".

You + yours have your panties in a twist about Trump's order being "discriminatory"

... yet never said boo when Obooboo brought back "discrimination based on nationality".

Hell Oobiejoobie even banned refugees from Iraq for 6 months... not a peep from you + yours.

("yours" being your biased mainstream media and your liberals everywhere)

And you are lying about the mainstream media again. I have seen it mentioned...

"LYING"??

Couldn't you have said something nicer such as "spreading falsehoods"?

But I wasn't...

MSM may mention it on occasion, but they don't lay it all out the way I did in my post.

They downplay Obama's role and villainize President Trump.

End result is chumps such as yourself saying DJT was the one who passed a "discriminatory, illegal law".

Truth is that Obiwan passed the law(s)... President Trump merely issued an order supporting dat dere.

And the reason it's referred to as a Muslim ban, is because during the campaign Trump spoke repeatedly about that he would ban Muslims from entering the USA.

Again, 90% of Muslims worldwide are still allowed in = not a "Muslim ban".

Again, "Muslim ban" is a phrase designed by the MSM to make Lord Trump appear to be a bigot.

(I notice chumps such as yourself spreading falsehoods such as "Muslim ban")

During his campaign DJT talked about a TEMPORARY ban of Muslims

... until his admin + DOJ + DHS can get to the bottom of the problem.

The problem, he stated, was polls like these:

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/ ... iah-jihad/

majority (51%) of AMERICAN MUSLIMS agreed that “Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to shariah.”

(51%) of AMERICAN MUSLIMS polled also believe either that they should have the choice of American or shariah courts, or that they should have their own tribunals to apply shariah.

nearly a quarter of AMERICAN MUSLIMS polled believed that, “It is legitimate to use violence to punish those who give offense to Islam by, for example, portraying the prophet Mohammed.

Nearly one-fifth of AMERICAN MUSLIMS said that the use of violence in the United States is justified in order to make shariah the law of the land in this country.

That would translate into roughly 300,000 Muslims living in the United States who believe that shariah is “The Muslim God Allah’s law that Muslims must follow and impose worldwide by Jihad.”

"Shariah authorizes such atrocities as murder against non-believers who won't convert, beheadings and more unthinkable acts that pose great harm to Americans, especially women."

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-rele ... mmigration

Lots of hatred + unAmerican values from migrants in USA, something a President should be concerned about

... if you believe in polls...

and yup both Obama and Trump were/are concerned and acted accordingly.

The vetting process obviously isn't working if a large portion of immigrants are bringing in these ideologies.

Both Oblahblah and President Trump were acting on the same concerns, Trump taking it one step further.

But MSM (of course) refuses to make that clear.

BTW under the Trump EO, I believe holders of certain kinds of visas from the 7 countries are allowed in

... along with holders of Green Cards on a case by case basis.

[Strangelove]

Ban or no ban - anti-muslim or not - this whole order was a clusterfuck and shows either an incompetent administration or an attempt to sow chaos and confusion.

You send out a poorly written order, don't have it vetted by any departments it affects and don't warn the people directly responsible for its implementation. Running a government through what appears to be an 'inner circle' of neophytes doesn't seem to be the way run a large country

Yes it appears he's in a rush as he probably feels it won't long until an MSM zombie gets TRIGGERED.

[Cornuck]

The problem, he stated, was polls like these:

http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/ ... iah-jihad/

LOFL - no fuckin' shit! The problem IS polls like that posted by some nut job website that commissioned KAC to do the fucking poll?? Yeah - let's put our faith in that one, Doc!

The vetting process is long and thorough. terrorists have so many ways to get into a country that waiting 4-5 years as a refugee is going to be at the bottom of the list.

Why are you right-wing loonies so afraid? I'm more worried that some asshole checking twitter while driving will kill me a million times more than some poor bastard fleeing a war zone with his family is "gunna git me"™

This whole EO was a clusterfuck, poorly thought out and rushed to appease the breitbart crowd. In other words - a move by morons for morons.

[Strangelove]

Well personally I don't care much for polls, but folks like President Trump and Per seem to...

Bottom line, both Obone and President Trump identified these 7 countries as problems.

I'm not afraid anyone is "gonna git me", I've foreseen my glorious death...



Beautiful, ain't it!

[Cornuck]

Beautiful, ain't it!

That's my problem with religious folk- they'd rather go meet their maker than build a civil society.

[Strangelove]

That's my problem with religious folk- they'd rather go meet their maker than build a civil society.

Hmmm... not "religious", don't go to church... but I am a Christian, allow me to explain...

*offers tract with nuclear explosion on cover*

[Cornuck]

That's my problem with religious folk- they'd rather go meet their maker than build a civil society.

Hmmm... not "religious", don't go to church... but I am a Christian, allow me to explain...

Yeah, yeah - you just like riding the bikes, right?

[Strangelove]

Yeahno, dem guys gotsta goes ta church!

[Per]

First of all, you are referring to the visa waiver programme, ie rules determining who can travel to the USA without a visa. People who do not fulfill those requirements may still be able to travel to the USA, but then need to apply for a visa, which may be denied or granted on an individual basis.

The difference here is that the executive order signed by Trump completely eliminates the possibility for nationals from seven specific countries to travel to the USA, including people who were born there but are now nationals of other countries.

Yes I realize the differences I was merely pointing out the progression since 1965
... in response to your "1965 immigration law bans discrimination based on nationality" comment.
POINT: Twas your fucking Obama who passed laws to bring back "discrimination based on nationality".
You + yours have your panties in a twist about Trump's order being "discriminatory"
... yet never said boo when Obooboo brought back "discrimination based on nationality".
Hell Oobiejoobie even banned refugees from Iraq for 6 months... not a peep from you + yours.
("yours" being your biased mainstream media and your liberals everywhere)

...

MSM may mention it on occasion, but they don't lay it all out the way I did in my post.
They downplay Obama's role and villainize President Trump.
End result is chumps such as yourself saying DJT was the one who passed a "discriminatory, illegal law".
Truth is that Obiwan passed the law(s)... President Trump merely issued an order supporting dat dere.

Muddying the waters again. There's nothing illegal about having varying degrees of ease to obtain visas. And if you have read my earlier posts here, you must have seen that I've stated repeatedly that if they just stop issuing visas, that would be within the framework of what is legal. And yet you keep suggesting that Obama somehow violated some law by setting out rules for what hurdles to jump to get a visa.

If you have been following the news these last few days, you must also have noticed how Trump and his cabal have back paddled. At first they revoked all visas for all people from these seven countries. They included green card holders, legal US residents and people holding dual citizenships, heck even people not being citizens of the aforementioned nations, but just being born there.

First they backed off from the green card holders and residents, which was my main complaint. And today, after fielding harsh criticism from eg Trudeau and May, they have back paddled about dual citizenship holders as well.
With these adjustment the EO should be within what Trump has the right to do. I mean, it's still evil and stupid, and damaging for US companies as well as endangering US citizens by serving as an ISIS recruitment tool, but afaict it is no longer illegal.

This is great news, and shows they can be reasoned with, but it is also proof of the incredible incompetence of those drafting the executive order. I mean, to ban legal residents and green card holders from entering the country was so clearly unconstitutional that even I could see it. From what I hear they had not have the text vetted by either the state department or the national security council, which may explain why they screwed up so badly.

And the reason it's referred to as a Muslim ban, is because during the campaign Trump spoke repeatedly about that he would ban Muslims from entering the USA.

Again, 90% of Muslims worldwide are still allowed in = not a "Muslim ban".
Again, "Muslim ban" is a phrase designed by the MSM to make Lord Trump appear to be a bigot.

No, a Muslim ban is something Trump proposed during his campaign and according to Giuliani what he still called it when asking for advice on how to frame it in a legal manner.

Giuliani on Fox.
Let's see you blame this on the liberal media.

BTW under the Trump EO, I believe holders of certain kinds of visas from the 7 countries are allowed in

... along with holders of Green Cards on a case by case basis.

Yup. After harsh criticism from pretty much every one (leading republicans, the pope, foreign leaders, the pentagon, the national security council, the state department, etc) they have amended it. With these adjustments I no longer think it is violating the US constitution. I mean, the indefinite ban on Syrian refugees sounds like a violation of the Geneva convention on refugees, which the US as a signatory nation is obligated to follow, but it's probably not against the constitution.

[Strangelove]

Right, and then they passed another law regarding immigration in 1965, which specifically bans discrimination based on nationality. Many lawyers argue that the wording of the ban may violate this law.

***MASTERFUL RESPONSE BY STRANGELOVE***

confused response from Per

Yes I realize the differences I was merely pointing out the progression since 1965
... in response to your "1965 immigration law bans discrimination based on nationality" comment.
POINT: Twas your fucking Obama who passed laws to bring back "discrimination based on nationality".
You + yours have your panties in a twist about Trump's order being "discriminatory"
... yet never said boo when Obooboo brought back "discrimination based on nationality".
Hell Oobiejoobie even banned refugees from Iraq for 6 months... not a peep from you + yours.
("yours" being your biased mainstream media and your liberals everywhere)

...

MSM may mention it on occasion, but they don't lay it all out the way I did in my post.
They downplay Obama's role and villainize President Trump.
End result is chumps such as yourself saying DJT was the one who passed a "discriminatory, illegal law".
Truth is that Obiwan passed the law(s)... President Trump merely issued an order supporting dat dere.

Muddying the waters again. There's nothing illegal about having varying degrees of ease to obtain visas. And if you have read my earlier posts here, you must have seen that I've stated repeatedly that if they just stop issuing visas, that would be within the framework of what is legal. And yet you keep suggesting that Obama somehow violated some law by setting out rules for what hurdles to jump to get a visa.

You're confused.

Nowhere did I suggest Obama did something illegal.

AGAIN: You... said DJT "was going against the 1965 immigration law banning discrimination based on nationality".

AGAIN: I... responded that Obama changed immigration law in 2015 (made it discriminatory - 7 countries).

Is any of this getting through, seriously WDF?

If you have been following the news these last few days, you must also have noticed how Trump and his cabal have back paddled. At first they revoked all visas for all people from these seven countries. They included green card holders, legal US residents and people holding dual citizenships, heck even people not being citizens of the aforementioned nations, but just being born there.

It's a standing Executive Order, hasn't changed and is readily available for reading, I linked it earlier.

You're so full of MSM bullshit you don't know which way is up....

it is no longer illegal.

Never was.

And the reason it's referred to as a Muslim ban, is because during the campaign Trump spoke repeatedly about that he would ban Muslims from entering the USA.

Again, 90% of Muslims worldwide are still allowed in = not a "Muslim ban".
Again, "Muslim ban" is a phrase designed by the MSM to make Lord Trump appear to be a bigot.

No, a Muslim ban is something Trump proposed during his campaign and according to Giuliani what he still called it when asking for advice on how to frame it in a legal manner.
Giuliani on Fox.
Let's see you blame this on the liberal media.

Again, 90% of Muslims worldwide are still allowed in = This EO is not a "Muslim ban".

So it is absolutely... Fake News... when the media falsely calls this EO a "Muslim Ban".

During his campaign DJT called for a TEMPORARY halt on Muslim immigrants

... because jihadists have been identified as a major immigration problem for years, and it's getting worse.

Yes, both Obama and DJT identified the immigration problem with Muslim Extremists.

Does that make Obama a bigot?

Right, well it doesn't make President Trump one either.

Obama and President Trump definitely agree that certain Muslims are a problem worth addressing.

In context Giuliani was actually talking about... something like... a "Muslim Extremist Ban"??

Can't really blame the guy for using a super-popular media catchphrase (form of brainwashing).

BTW how old is Giuliani, look what Peter King had to say about Giuliani's comments:

http://nypost.com/2017/01/29/trump-aske ... -giuliani/

[Strangelove]

Speaking of immigration... and world poverty... and gumballs: