The Official Dave Ayres CC "All Thing Leaves" thread

[Hockey Widow]

Well let's be clear. Toronto has to pay his full salary so they save nothing. They free up cap room if they need it, but they save nothing on salary. Great trade for the leaves, no question Nonis get out of that horrible deal.

[ClamRussel]

Well let's be clear. Toronto has to pay his full salary so they save nothing. They free up cap room if they need it, but they save nothing on salary. Great trade for the leaves, no question Nonis get out of that horrible deal.

They've got so much $ they don't know what to do w/ it. Just think, they'd have Lu right now if Nonis didn't try to force the Canucks to eat salary.

[ClamRussel]

LA should think of doing that for Voynov. Trade him to Toronto for Dianna. They get the D they need now, Toronto gets the cap relief. If Voynov plays again the leaves reap to rewards. If not they have at least rid themselves of the goof. They can make it Voynov and a conditional something in case he can't ever play.

Or trade him to Edmonton for something conditional. They just need to get out from under his contract. It could back fire if he is playing again next year but hey.....why not.

Apparently LA is up against the wall right now, if Voynov is acquitted and returns to action the Kings are screwed. At the moment, he is "suspended" so his salary doesn't count against the cap. They don't have room for another salary let alone one the size of Phaneuf's unless bodies move out.

[Strangelove]

Cap circumvention by the leaves.

Nothing says it's illegal. So it is allowed.

Nothing said the original Kovalchuk deal with the Devil was illegal either.

But that didn't stop the NHL from penalizing it as "Against the spirit of the CBA".

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

[Strangelove]

You're trying hard to look at it only from Columbus' point of view. Toronto just saved over 5 million a year for the next 5+ seasons.

Trading Clarkson was seen as the impossible.

Trading Horton was seen as the even more impossible.

The cost Nonis ends up paying for 118 crap games of Clarkson is $35.6M.

$27.6M (yet to be paid to Horton) +$8M (paid to Clarkson so far) (most of his pay this year was via signing bonus).

Yeahno, don't think the higher-ups are happy with Nonis' $35.6M blunder.

And hey, that LTIR space is not all sunshine & lollipops.

Ask the Flyers about some of the Pronger headaches.

Using that LTIR room will result in things like

- No Deadline deals to improve the team

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/2014/1 ... s-not-good

- Any bonuses for young players (aren't they rebuilding?) will be tacked onto the following year.

- The Leaves will lose almost all of their 10% off-season cap-overage flexibility.

(makes it tougher to sign any UFAs + your RFAs - especially when combined with tacked-on bonuses)

Not sure why a rebuilding team wants "extra cap-space".

A desperate move by a desperate team.

I think things were so awkward with Clarkson in TO that they jumped on this Horton offer.

Garbage for garbage, the Leaves will continue to suck forever.

Or perhaps Tuna can explain how the Leaves get better any time soon.

[Hockey Widow]

Good article Doc. Really does shed light on the complications arising from having a Horton type on LTIR. Hard to see how this helps the leaves a few years down the road. We can assume since they are in a rebuild they won't be cap heavy next year and perhaps the next but if they have aspirations after that they can be really screwed. Unless they find a team that needs to get to the cap floor and then they retain some of the salary.

Although I think it is a creative move it also smells of panic by Dave. He made a huge blunder on Clarkson and the team will be paying for that mistake for years without the benefit. Columbus mean while turns their mistake into a warm body that can still play for them. They have a ton of cap but it will bite them on their internal salary.

Nonis the hero today. But let's never forget he created this shirt storm. No matter how you slice it he looks bad.

It's like forgiving MG because Matthias scores 20 goals.

[Strangelove]

Here's another blurb on some of the LTIR problems.

It could have been written better, but it gives an idea of tagging issues:

http://www.hockeyforums.net/index.php/t ... ally-425m/

[Hockey Widow]

Boy if Nonis keeps his job I'll be buying the bubbly. I wonder f BB brings his on as a special assistant. One can dream.

[Topper]

Remember the games Vancouver played to get their opening day roster as close to the cap limit as possible so they could get the best benifit out of Salo/Burrows etc starting the season on LITR

[herb]

Boy if Nonis keeps his job I'll be buying the bubbly. I wonder f BB brings his on as a special assistant. One can dream.

How has he not been fired already?

Or is he just being kept around to file the paperwork with the league on Shanahan's behalf?

[vic]

Ok, so Horton's contract was not insured so Columbus just could not afford the salary anymore, not a cap issue a salary issue.

Cap circumvention by the leaves.

Yep. Lou started this with the Devils when he traded an injured player to the SJS way back when the cap first came in. No reason why this loop hole could not have been closed, prevent an injured player from being traded.

But this then negates the E Kane trade, maybe not so easy.

Not really, E. Kane will play again next season - his salary is insured so if he doesn't play ever again, his salary is paid by insurance, doesn't cost Buffalo a dime. Horton will probably never play again, he knows this, Columbus knows this, the leaves know this and the NHL knows this too.

Horton, on the other hand, has to be paid by the club as he is not insured. There are only a handful of teams that can afford to do this, and the leaves being #1 on that list.

So essentially, the league is allowing a rich team to use their money to get cap relief for the next 6 years to the tune of over $5 million.

Ok, so Horton's contract was not insured so Columbus just could not afford the salary anymore, not a cap issue a salary issue.

Cap circumvention by the leaves.

Nothing says it's illegal. So it is allowed.

Neither was the Kovalchuck deal, but the NHL knew what the Devils were doing and nix the deal - same thing should have happened here.

[herb]

Had no idea Horton's back problems were so serious he'll likely never play again. Sounds like he can't even live a normal life, ATM. Dude's 29. Extremely shitty.

Now that he's under contract with Toronto, you can be he will never play again.

[Hockey Widow]

NHL today said they were asked if the deal was cap circumvention, guess more than one team didn't like the optics, they responded, no, if it was we would not have approved it. Or we could use the cap circumvention clause to rectify the situation.

So more than one person/team/media outlet has been asking this very question. How can the league allow a team to so very obviously buy their way out of that contract. BB would be proud.

Apparently when approached by Columbus the leaves did check with the NHL head office. But LA cannot do the same with Voynov as a suspended player can't be traded?? Read that somewhere but have no idea if it is accurate.

But, apparently, LA is still pissed that they are hamstrung by the Voynov situation and were one of the teams that inquired about cap circumvention. I'm not sure what they want the league to do, the league has already worked with the NHLPA to get cap waiver. They believe they should be able to what, exceed the cap by his salary if he comes back?

Perhaps the SPC needs to be modified allowing for an instant contract nullification in situations like this. Team choice.

[BigTuna]

Ok, so Horton's contract was not insured so Columbus just could not afford the salary anymore, not a cap issue a salary issue.

Cap circumvention by the leaves.

Yep. Lou started this with the Devils when he traded an injured player to the SJS way back when the cap first came in. No reason why this loop hole could not have been closed, prevent an injured player from being traded.

But this then negates the E Kane trade, maybe not so easy.

Not really, E. Kane will play again next season - his salary is insured so if he doesn't play ever again, his salary is paid by insurance, doesn't cost Buffalo a dime. Horton will probably never play again, he knows this, Columbus knows this, the leaves know this and the NHL knows this too.

Horton, on the other hand, has to be paid by the club as he is not insured. There are only a handful of teams that can afford to do this, and the leaves being #1 on that list.

So essentially, the league is allowing a rich team to use their money to get cap relief for the next 6 years to the tune of over $5 million.

Ok, so Horton's contract was not insured so Columbus just could not afford the salary anymore, not a cap issue a salary issue.

Cap circumvention by the leaves.

Nothing says it's illegal. So it is allowed.

Neither was the Kovalchuck deal, but the NHL knew what the Devils were doing and nix the deal - same thing should have happened here.

The Devils went ahead and signed Kovalchuk AFTER the NHL told them they would be severely punished. Hell, the NHL stripped the leaves of a draft pick just for signing a 50L transfer fee a few years ago. They aren't getting any favours.

[BigTuna]

NHL today said they were asked if the deal was cap circumvention, guess more than one team didn't like the optics, they responded, no, if it was we would not have approved it. Or we could use the cap circumvention clause to rectify the situation.

So more than one person/team/media outlet has been asking this very question. How can the league allow a team to so very obviously buy their way out of that contract. BB would be proud.

Apparently when approached by Columbus the leaves did check with the NHL head office. But LA cannot do the same with Voynov as a suspended player can't be traded?? Read that somewhere but have no idea if it is accurate.

But, apparently, LA is still pissed that they are hamstrung by the Voynov situation and were one of the teams that inquired about cap circumvention. I'm not sure what they want the league to do, the league has already worked with the NHLPA to get cap waiver. They believe they should be able to what, exceed the cap by his salary if he comes back?

Perhaps the SPC needs to be modified allowing for an instant contract nullification in situations like this. Team choice.

I do see a difference between the two. Voynov beat his wife and was suspended. Horton is hurt because of a hockey injury.