Israeli–Palestinian conflict

[Strangelove]

Most people in this thread are talking straight out their buttholes.

Damonberryman is doing so in demonic tongues.

Ummmm UK, the folks in the Westbank are not interested in becoming citizens of a country that doesn't exist

(in their minds).

What THE FUCK is wrong with you...

[ukcanuck]

Most people in this thread are talking straight out their buttholes.

Damonberryman is doing so in demonic tongues.

Ummmm UK, the folks in the Westbank are not interested in becoming citizens of a country that doesn't exist

(in their minds).

What THE FUCK is wrong with you...

Lol I don't think I could list all the things that are wrong with me!

I know it sounds like a stretch but the alternative is much worse.
Annihilation of a people who lived in that region for centuries even if you must call them squatters is more than ridiculous.
I have always understood that Israel needed to be hardline to survive, but the trouble is that hardliners just create more desperate people and fighting fire with fire does not work.

I think the truth of ISIS is that these are all young men who have been taught how to be viscous by fighting in our wars.. former proxy soldiers.

If our governments were to focus on who these people are, where they come from, what happened to their homes and families, we would see that we created them.

And put the guns in their hands, watch the video clips check out the hardware, American and Russian heavy equipment, rockets and missiles.

Logically this is a direct result of the Arab spring and the destabilization of counties that once did business with the U.S.

disaffected, trained soldiers who are easy cannon fodder

[Strangelove]

Ummmm UK, the folks in the Westbank are not interested in becoming citizens of a country that doesn't exist

(in their minds).

What THE FUCK is wrong with you...

Lol I don't think I could list all the things that are wrong with me!

I know it sounds like a stretch but the alternative is much worse.
Annihilation of a people who lived in that region for centuries even if you must call them squatters is more than ridiculous.

Annihilation is not an alternative at all, let alone "the only other alternative".

The rest of your post was all over the map (literally and figuratively).

Did you know that one out of every five Israeli citizens is a palestinian/arab/muslim?

The palestinians/arabs/muslims who are in the Palestinan territories refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist.

Israel has never had any other choice than to "fight fire with fire" as far as those palestinans are concerned

... but they have always welcomed with open arms those palestinians/arabs/muslims who choose peace.

[ukcanuck]

Ummmm UK, the folks in the Westbank are not interested in becoming citizens of a country that doesn't exist

(in their minds).

What THE FUCK is wrong with you...

Lol I don't think I could list all the things that are wrong with me!

I know it sounds like a stretch but the alternative is much worse.
Annihilation of a people who lived in that region for centuries even if you must call them squatters is more than ridiculous.

Annihilation is not an alternative at all, let alone "the only other alternative".

The rest of your post was all over the map (literally and figuratively).

Did you know that one out of every five Israeli citizens is a palestinian/arab/muslim?

The palestinians/arabs/muslims who are in the Palestinan territories refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist.

Israel has never had any other choice than to "fight fire with fire" as far as those palestinans are concerned

... but they have always welcomed with open arms those palestinians/arabs/muslims who choose peace.

I noticed that but this whole thread is all over the map and there are three and four different arguments ideas and ass talk going on all at once,
I am guilty of trying to address a lot of things all at once.
Bad form I know

Anyway yes, I did know that there are many Israeli citizens who are of palestinian decent, but they are marginalized and prevented from political power, it's a second class kind of citizenship at best. There used to be a road to that kind citizenship but evem that has been cutoff.

It life as a palestianian either with isreali second class citizenship controlled at every turn or objecting and living outside in the occupied territories with no citizenship... Not much choice is it?

You know Doc that propaganda cuts both ways, I know that news stories that paint Muslims as wholesale terrorists and evil play everyday back home, I was there for the whole Iraq debacle. I'm here now and I'm getting the opposite side of things. You would not believe the nasty shit Israel does that never reaches the west.
Beatings and torture of women and children,
Sending warnings of pending missile attacks, telling gazan civilians over the radio to take shelter at local schools and hitting that school only to claim that hamas are using human shields are but two examples.

The reaction is deny that claim but which side ever tells the truth?
Somewhere in the middle it makes sense to me, that given a real choice between the right to the pursuit of happiness and war famine and disease... People are going to choose happiness.

As far as annihilation goes Topper is right to a degree, the ultimate endgame of what the isrealis are doing is annihilation.
Push and push inch by inch until the last palestianian is gone.

[Strangelove]

Anyway yes, I did know that there are many Israeli citizens who are of palestinian decent, but they are marginalized and prevented from political power, it's a second class kind of citizenship at best. There used to be a road to that kind citizenship but evem that has been cutoff.

You're wrong about that.

Wikipedia is a good place to begin your research:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citiz ... _groupings

Fact: They are offered and receive full citizenship.

You would not believe the nasty shit Israel does that never reaches the west.
Beatings and torture of women and children,

You're right, I don't believe it.

(well it's no worse than the occasional police brutality we see in the UK or USA)

Sending warnings of pending missile attacks, telling gazan civilians over the radio to take shelter at local schools and hitting that school only to claim that hamas are using human shields are but two examples.

WOW you're completely fucked up.

In times of war, it's established fact that Hamas does indeed launch attacks from schools (etc).

It's established fact that Israel then warns West Bank civilians to vacate the area before retaliating.

Don't know what else to say, it's established fact that Hamas uses civilians as human shields.

The reaction is deny that claim but which side ever tells the truth?
Somewhere in the middle it makes sense to me

Yeahno, the truth does not lay halfway between the crap folks such as yourself pull out of their butts

.... and established fact.

given a real choice between the right to the pursuit of happiness and war famine and disease... People are going to choose happiness.

When their extremist religious views demand war, they choose war.

Their is no "famine and disease" in the palestinian territories.

Seriously, what THE FUCK is wrong with you!

As far as annihilation goes Topper is right to a degree, the ultimate endgame of what the isrealis are doing is annihilation.
Push and push inch by inch until the last palestianian is gone.

Topper never said that is what is happening.

And it's not.

In fact the population in the palestinian territories continues to grow at a very healthy rate.

Truth is you have no idea what the truth is.

Not sure why you spread lies about the Israeli–Palestinian conflict...

[ukcanuck]

Many Arab citizens feel that the state, as well as society at large, not only actively limits them to second-class citizenship, but treats them as enemies, impacting their perception of the de jure versus de facto quality of their citizenship.[161] The joint document The Future Vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel, asserts: "Defining the Israeli State as a Jewish State and exploiting democracy in the service of its Jewishness excludes us, and creates tension between us and the nature and essence of the State." The document explains that by definition the "Jewish State" concept is based on ethnically preferential treatment towards Jews enshrined in immigration (the Law of Return) and land policy (the Jewish National Fund), and calls for the establishment of minority rights protections enforced by an independent anti-discrimination commission.[162]

A 2004 report by Mossawa, an advocacy center for Palestinian-Arab citizens of Israel, states that since the events of October 2000, 16 Arabs had been killed by security forces, bringing the total to 29 victims of "institutional violence" in four years.[163] Ahmed Sa'adi, in his article on The Concept of Protest and its Representation by the Or Commission, states that since 1948 the only protestors to be killed by the police have been Arabs.[164]

Yousef Munayyer, an Israeli citizen and the executive director of The Jerusalem Fund, wrote that Palestinians only have varying degrees of limited rights in Israel. He states that although Palestinians make up about 20 percent of Israel's population, less than 7 percent of the budget is allocated to Palestinian citizens. He describes the 1.5 million Arab citizens of Israel as second-class citizens while four million more are not citizens at all. He states that a Jew from any country can move to Israel but a Palestinian refugee, with a valid claim to property in Israel, cannot. Munayyer also described the difficulties he and his wife faced when visiting the country.[165]

From your wiki link,
I'm not making this shot up.
Israel is not innocent or a true democratic state that guarantees rights and privileges for all its citizens.

[ukcanuck]

http://www.scriptonitedaily.com/2014/09 ... our-heart/

This

[ukcanuck]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/09/29 ... estinians/

Or this

[ukcanuck]

Or this!

Notice any similarities between these people and certain nazi country in the 1930s ?

[ukcanuck]

And this

[ukcanuck]

Genocide of the conquered people is the only solution. The final Solution in fact.

Whether it be Jews/Muslims, Shia/Sunni, Catholic/Protestant, Brit/Scots/Irish, Cowboys/Wagon Burners, whatever, whoever. Conflicts of today should have been and could have been settled centuries ago through extermination.

Touching, but dream of world peace all you like buds: NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!

Wars, civil or otherwise, will always be with us.

I blame the treehuggers.

Am I missing something here because I read what topper said and it says the final solution Jews/Palestinians ...?

[Strangelove]

From your wiki link,
I'm not making this shot up.
Israel is not innocent or a true democratic state that guarantees rights and privileges for all its citizens.

Yeah, we can post snippets that slant the truth in various ways from "my link" all day long.

And we can post links to propaganda sites on both sides all day long.

But I'd rather focus on the specific lies that I called you out on.

I'm intrigued as to the "why" brah.

Yeah, I can't fathom the "why".

For example, show me where Topper said anything like:

“the ultimate endgame of what the isrealis are doing is annihilation”

(btw isn't the STATED ultimate endgame of what the PALESTINIANS are doing... "annihilation")

But yeahno, you’re not getting off the hook that easy bro.

I want you to address each and every alleged lie in point form forthwith.

Thanks in advance!

[ukcanuck]

And this

First one, 3:35 minutes into this video.

Coordinates were given to 3300 palestianians civilians to take refuge at 6 schools "17" times by the Israelis before they flattened the buildings-claiming they didnt know...

There is the claim that Hamas uses human shields... Maybe that is true, but this incident makes Israel just as bad if not worse because they claim to be an enlightened society.

[Meds]

Jews and Muslims lived side by side for centuries, it wasn't unti the fall of Turks and the Balfour declaration in London that the war between the two started.

It is true that both religions claim the same spot on the map for their holiest of holy ground but an international presence in Jerusalem could work out a compromise. Something similar to the Vatican. Independent country adminstered by a tribunal of Jews, Muslims and Christians.

The trouble is right now Israel doesn't have to compromise because we support and arm them.

Muslims are not inherently evil not is their religion any more or less intolerant than Jews or Christians. The problem is that palestianians are stateless. The have nowhere to go and are held virtually as prisoners.

If Israel created a roadmap to citizenship, and ordinary folk could earn the right to abide where already work anyway. You might find that that would do more than all the bombs and barbed wire put together.

It works in Canada.


Oh and Mëds, you are just an emergency responder, you don't get to choose who needs, you just delver the care.

As with all religions there is a component of Islam that can be twisted by those who want to have a reason for wiping someone else out. History has proven that much. Right now that religion is the one being used to foster terror and fear. You'll note that I also mentioned that the Jews are doing what they believe their religion directs them to do when it comes to claiming their promised land. I wasn't just throwing this all at the feet of the Palestinian Muslims.

But even still, I don't think that Palestinians would accept that.

As for something like the Vatican.....in North America we can't even get a group or, largely secular, politicians to agree on things and govern with any kind of real cooperation. Good luck getting a three religious views to work together when they are fundamentally opposed to each other at the core of their beliefs.

And as for being "just an emergency responder", that would be a coupla levels below me at this point.

[Meds]

You want to use statistics that are unsubstantiated and most likely taken out of context to bomb Isis to justify how our beliefs are better than theirs?
I could use the same tactics to paint Christians as evil people if I cared to. If you asked most Christians, I'd say a higher percentage than 64% would say they believed the bible to be from God, then all I'd have to do is point to the passage where it says homosexuality is a sin and the passage where sinners should be put to death and extrapolate that 64 percent of Christians think gays should be shot.

And I would say you are really reaching, and also know nothing about Christianity. But what else should we expect from an overseas ESL teacher.....