Here's a thought for you guys

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Linden Is God
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Here's a thought for you guys

Post by Linden Is God »

Ok so the majority (if not all) of the people that visit this site are not happy with the back up situation. I was just reading that Patrick Lalime is coming back from back surgery. The Hawks say they won't demote him to the minors once he's done his 2 week conditioning stint. So that leaves Chicago with 3 goalers on their roster. Khabibulin is obviously staying, but the Hawks will be trying to dump either Lalime or Boucher. Both are affordable, Boucher at $450K and Lalime at $700K. Do the Canucks go for one of these guys? I'm not sure if Nonis should go for one of these guys specifically, but I would like to see the back up situation fortified. It seems like this division will be tight to the end, and the Canucks can't continue to give up games when Sabourin is in net.

The Hawks have lots of cap room, sitting at $38 million. Ideally it would be nice to see Nonis dump some dead weight and clear some cap room, but if not I'm sure one of those goalies (or another one around the league) can be had for a draft pick.

This is just something I'm throwing out there, what do you guys think?
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Post by Bartman »

I'm not of the opinion that we are in need of fixing our back up "situation". We have a guy under contract for the league min who has shown that he is capable of keeping us close in the few games he is going to play.

Spending any more than the min on a guy who might see 3 more games doesn't make sense to me at all.

Having said that you never turn down a trade that makes you better. Boucher would be an improvement and comes with a similar price tag. IF Nonis could get him for a song then go for him. Otherwise leave well enough alone and see where the chips fall between now and the deadline.
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Re: Here's a thought for you guys

Post by DavidPratt_ »

Linden Is God wrote: So that leaves Chicago with 3 goalers on their roster. Khabibulin is obviously staying, but the Hawks will be trying to dump either Lalime or Boucher. Both are affordable, Boucher at $450K and Lalime at $700K. Do the Canucks go for one of these guys? I'm not sure if Nonis should go for one of these guys specifically, but I would like to see the back up situation fortified. It seems like this division will be tight to the end, and the Canucks can't continue to give up games when Sabourin is in net.

This is just something I'm throwing out there, what do you guys think?
I'm not comfortable with Sabourin as our backup. If Luongo slipped on some soap in the shower and injured himself for 2 weeks and we had Sabourin as our starter, the Canucks would miss the playoffs. Look at Atlanta last season. They would have made the playoffs but lost Lethonen for the first part of the season and lost so many points without a decent goalie in place. I will also say this: I believe that if the Canucks had a better backup who could play more games, Luongo would play better. Why? No matter how inconsistent Luongo is, he knows full well that Vigneault will put him in next game because an inconsistent Luongo is 100 times better than Sabourin. Get a Lalime or a Boucher who can put up a decent game and watch how Luongo will play.

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Post by Meerschaum »

Yeah, the back-up situation is less than perfect, but wasting assets on a back-up to address "what if" scenarios involving Luongo's health (What if he is shot? What if he jumps off a building? What if he is senselessly chopped into little pieces by the propeller of a communter plane? What if he is eaten by wolves? Hey, it happened to Taft!) is simply throwing good money after bad. We have chosen to place all of our goaltending eggs in one basket. We live or die by Luongo. Accept it.

As the 'Nucks are in rebuilding mode, I wouldn't be trading picks for anybody these days. The debacle of last season's deadline deals still stings.

The only reason for Nonis to be talking to a team like Chicago is solely to address our current and future cap space difficulties - i.e., dumping some of our overpaid and underperforming assets. If we can land a Lalime or Boucher along with a pick or two as part of a salary dump I probably wouldn't complain.
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Linden Is God
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Post by Linden Is God »

I want to elaborate on this a little more. I was rushed earlier so I feel I didn't get my point across. I am really not worried about the "what ifs" with Luongo. I'm more worried about the games that he doesn't play. The Canucks can not afford to give up the 2 points they do when Luongo sits. Sabourins stats are not great. He's yet to give the team a win. The division is so tight right now that they can not afford to give up 2 points but at the same time, Luongo can not play every game.
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Post by capt canuck »

no sense worrying the season with no money to spend, ride roberto and if anything does happen make a call to manitoba and let sabouron still sit on the bench.and address the need in the summer
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Post by sk8er »

I actually thought Sabourin played well in his last game. Poor bugger is caught in between a rock and a hard place. if he could play more, he would improve, I'm sure of that, but as others have said we can't afford the luxury of allowing him to play when he has not played in a while..........but if we don't let him play, bobbie lou will be a puddle in front of the net near the end of the season..........
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Post by levelheaded »

I'd be more then happy to let Sabourin develop and call up Flaherty if the unthinkable happens. He's shown he has the ability to carry a team when necessary (even if it was in the AHL) and I thought he'd done more then enough in the preseason to win the backup job. Wasting our already limited capspace (considering we now have to pay Cowan as well) on another career backup to sit behind Luongo 70+ games a season seems a waste.

Anyways, Sabourin hasn't been awful, just not good. He lets in a couple bad goals a game, and that's about it. After that he seems to slam the door shut (Calgary game, boston game, Edmonton game) so I'm not to worried about him. But as Meers said, we live and die by Luongo, so if he should go down there's no point trading away picks to fix a problem that has already killed the team.
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Post by DavidPratt_ »

levelheaded wrote:I'd be more then happy to let Sabourin develop and call up Flaherty if the unthinkable happens. He's shown he has the ability to carry a team when necessary (even if it was in the AHL) and I thought he'd done more then enough in the preseason to win the backup job. Wasting our already limited capspace (considering we now have to pay Cowan as well) on another career backup to sit behind Luongo 70+ games a season seems a waste.

Anyways, Sabourin hasn't been awful, just not good. He lets in a couple bad goals a game, and that's about it. After that he seems to slam the door shut (Calgary game, boston game, Edmonton game) so I'm not to worried about him. But as Meers said, we live and die by Luongo, so if he should go down there's no point trading away picks to fix a problem that has already killed the team.
Sabourin needs more time in the AHL. I'm not writing him off, just suggesting that he's not ready to be an NHL backup. As for Flaherty, he hasn't set the AHL on fire either and Drew Macintyre has (at times) played better than Flaherty.

I know everyone is saying 'who cares about the what-ifs'. Let's be clear: Dave Nonis' job is riding on making the playoffs this season. If the Canucks miss a playoff spot by a point or two because Luongo was inured for a period of time and replaced by an inadequate goalie, he could be in serious trouble. Francesco Acquilini will not be happy if he misses out on even one round of playoff revenue because Nonis didn't act appropriately when he had the chance.

By the way, did everyone notice how well Boucher played when Khabibulin was injured? Anyone notice how Khabibulin played after he came back from his injury? :roll:

Don't discount the value of a decent backup goalie.

'Nuff said.

dp
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Post by Linden Is God »

DavidPratt_ wrote: By the way, did everyone notice how well Boucher played when Khabibulin was injured? Anyone notice how Khabibulin played after he came back from his injury? :roll:

Don't discount the value of a decent backup goalie.
dp
That is a great point. I say that is one of the biggest reasons why Theodore had his huge year a few years back. Hackett was pushing him. I think a guy like Boucher or Lalime could help out Luongo.
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Post by DavidPratt_ »

Linden Is God wrote:
DavidPratt_ wrote: By the way, did everyone notice how well Boucher played when Khabibulin was injured? Anyone notice how Khabibulin played after he came back from his injury? :roll:

Don't discount the value of a decent backup goalie.
dp
That is a great point. I say that is one of the biggest reasons why Theodore had his huge year a few years back. Hackett was pushing him. I think a guy like Boucher or Lalime could help out Luongo.
Roberto Luongo wants to be the next Patrick Roy - a Hall of Famer. The $6.5+M contract he signed would never reduce his desire to win or be the best. Having said that, without competition in any sport or business, people tend to get....'comfortable'. A few years ago Giguere had a bad season....first it was Gerber and then Bryzgalov who pushed him back to where he is now. Nabokov in San Jose has had good seasons but had strings of bad games. He always bounces back. Why? Vesa Toskala wants his job and pushes him. I believe that if Vancouver could trade Flaherty (or let him retire at the end of the season) and send Sabourin down, followed by an acquisition like Lalime or Boucher, Luongo would benefit. He could play a few less games and get some rest and have a veteran NHL (not AHL) goalie push him a bit. Finally, if something did happen to Luongo, who would you rather have? A guy who was on the NHL all-rookie team (both Boucher and Lalime were at one time in their careers) or a guy who HAS NOT won an NHL game yet (with three NHL teams - Calgary, Pittsburgh and now Vancouver). I'm not giving up on Sabourin - he has potential. I'm just suggesting he's not ready yet.

If Nonis is smart, he'll consider a change to shore up the goaltending depth. It's great to have local ownership in the Acquilini family, but if you think Francesco and his brothers are happy and aren't getting an earful of advice wherever they go in the Lower Mainland from irate fans, you're wrong. If the Canucks miss the playoffs for the second year in the row, Dave Nonis could run into some problems. Great guy and a hell of a lot better to deal with than Brian Burke, but he's going to have some explaining to do if the Canucks miss the playoffs. You may think that a backup goalie may not make a difference but if it could result in 2-4 points for whatever reason and the Canucks miss the playoffs by a few points, I'd hate to be Nonis. We've seen this picture before, kids. Remember our good friend Maxime Ouellet? Nonis cheaped out and picked him up from Washington. Ouellet couldn't win a game. Auld wilted under the pressure down the stretch and the Canucks missed the playoffs by a point or two. What if the Canucks picked up Noronen earlier in the season (granted Marc Crawford has been awful with backup goalies) and Auld was fresher down the stretch? Maybe the Canucks would have MADE the playoffs last season. :evil:

dp
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Post by MarkMM »

We should be looking to improve our back-up, for a few reasons:

1.) It is true that we live or die by Luongo, all the more reason not to play him more than is reasonable, exhausting him and exposing him to injury. Before you say that he's used to a lot of play, recall that even Luongo said at the beginning of this season that he grew tired in Florida, and WANTED to play less in Vancouver to prepare himself for a "long playoff run". (Loved that, but it's also important to note that he's never had to play in the postseason, so if that's the goal, let's make sure we're not out of it as soon as we get in there.)

2.) In this division and this conference, it's entirely possible that the "3 games" that our back-up plays may be the 6 points that decides whether we get in or not. When things are as close as they are, let's be clear, the choice of our back-up may be what makes or breaks this team if it gets down to the wire, even if Luongo is healthy.

3.) Lalime and Boucher (especially) are cheap, so the cap argument doesn't stand.

But it's true, I'm loathe to give up assets/prospects/picks, if it could be a part of a salary dump or else a package deal that addresses one of our other problems, perfect.
Mark
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Post by jchockey »

Like Mark said, with one point seperating first and fifth in our division, every single point counts. If upgrading Sabourin to a Lalime or a Boucher gives us a better chance at winning those few games when Luongo doesn't start, I say go for it.

It's not addressing a "problem" with the backup situation, it's merely a strategy to squeeze every point you can out of every single game.
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Post by cerios »

Personally I am thrilled with our backup, I think he has played quite well outside a couple of shaky periods. Yes hes untested but considering our payroll situation I think this was one of the few very good moves Nonis has made.
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Post by Soapy »

do we not think that Luongo already pushes himself pretty good? He wants to play & win every game...he wants to be the best goalie ever...he has said this many times...I don't think picking up a "proven" back up is as important as picking up depth & toughness on forward. Boucher & Lalime are weak. They would starve for icetime behind Luongo. I think that the Canucks are in OK shape for back up...for the 8 times I'll see him play...if you want to bring up the 'what ifs' with our goalie, you could bring it up with every team in our division. I don't think Lalime or Boucher is going to take EDM/CAL/COL/MIN to the playoffs either.
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