Canucks News N Notes 23-24 Playoff Edition

[Blob Mckenzie]

The only space he's created in the past few months has been between his ears.

He's not the first to put up a career season, sign a huge contract and disappear.

I've been noting his MIA appearances all season.

He'll need to convince me he isn't a con.

He’s put up 192 points over the last two seasons. Google how many guys have over a ppg over the last 5 years. This isn’t one career year.

He NEEDS a running mate. Allvin needs to get him one. I’m think he’s cunning enough to understand that.

[Cousin Strawberry]

He’s put up 192 points over the last two seasons. Google how many guys have over a ppg over the last 5 years. This isn’t one career year.

People seem to have forgotten this little fact tidbit. Those numbers are more than your average top line centre production. Those are top 5 stats.

He's in a slump. The timing is terrible admittedly but there's no denying this isn't how he plays.

[Hockey Widow]

leaves tie their series. They were the better team IMO

Oops wrong thread, sorry

[Topper]

He’s put up 192 points over the last two seasons. Google how many guys have over a ppg over the last 5 years. This isn’t one career year.

People seem to have forgotten this little fact tidbit. Those numbers are more than your average top line centre production. Those are top 5 stats.

He's in a slump. The timing is terrible admittedly but there's no denying this isn't how he plays.

He's had one super star season and the rest are star player seasons. Not 5th highest paid in the league seasons.

He's Vancouver's Huberdeau. Florida did the right thing, the geriatric failed.

[Meds]

He’s put up 192 points over the last two seasons. Google how many guys have over a ppg over the last 5 years. This isn’t one career year.

People seem to have forgotten this little fact tidbit. Those numbers are more than your average top line centre production. Those are top 5 stats.

He's in a slump. The timing is terrible admittedly but there's no denying this isn't how he plays.

He's had one super star season and the rest are star player seasons. Not 5th highest paid in the league seasons.

He's Vancouver's Huberdeau. Florida did the right thing, the geriatric failed.

LOL. Elias Hubersson.

[Cousin Strawberry]

Youve been too hard on the Beave Ward. It's a slump lol

[Megaterio Llamas]

uh oh...

[Blob Mckenzie]

He’s put up 192 points over the last two seasons. Google how many guys have over a ppg over the last 5 years. This isn’t one career year.

People seem to have forgotten this little fact tidbit. Those numbers are more than your average top line centre production. Those are top 5 stats.

He's in a slump. The timing is terrible admittedly but there's no denying this isn't how he plays.

He's had one super star season and the rest are star player seasons. Not 5th highest paid in the league seasons.

He's Vancouver's Huberdeau. Florida did the right thing, the geriatric failed.

Because he falls down sometimes. We have used your beard and coonskin cap to mop this place when you cried about Hoglander. Makes a ton of sense to bash a guy making 1.1 scoring 25 even strength goals. You took your lumps but then tore apart Peter about his ES production. It was pointed out to you at the time that he had one less ES point than Miller since the All Star break. Very strange time to bitch about the team considering where they came from.

I’m disappointed in him too but he needs a big guy with wheels, a bit of hands and a streak of anger. He’s being asked to do what Kesler did for a couple years. Carry lesser players. Do people really think Kuzmenko was going to be the guy who got him going??

Peter played his best hockey with JT. A 6 ft 1 218 pound brute that is a top player. You hate Hoglander because of his height, but rip into Petey playing with such a shitty linemate? Which is it?? Miky has been ass this year. Is Lafferty the key that opens the vault?

I never got the Hoglander hate. But then again I never had lovers nuts for Beagle, Sutter,,Eriksson, Roussel, Sbisa, OEL etc. But that’s just me.

[Meds]

He’s put up 192 points over the last two seasons. Google how many guys have over a ppg over the last 5 years. This isn’t one career year.

People seem to have forgotten this little fact tidbit. Those numbers are more than your average top line centre production. Those are top 5 stats.

He's in a slump. The timing is terrible admittedly but there's no denying this isn't how he plays.

He's had one super star season and the rest are star player seasons. Not 5th highest paid in the league seasons.

He's Vancouver's Huberdeau. Florida did the right thing, the geriatric failed.

Because he falls down sometimes. We have used your beard and coonskin cap to mop this place when you cried about Hoglander. Makes a ton of sense to bash a guy making 1.1 scoring 25 even strength goals. You took your lumps but then tore apart Peter about his ES production. It was pointed out to you at the time that he had one less ES point than Miller since the All Star break. Very strange time to bitch about the team considering where they came from.

I’m disappointed in him too but he needs a big guy with wheels, a bit of hands and a streak of anger. He’s being asked to do what Kesler did for a couple years. Carry lesser players. Do people really think Kuzmenko was going to be the guy who got him going??

Peter played his best hockey with JT. A 6 ft 1 218 pound brute that is a top player. You hate Hoglander because of his height, but rip into Petey playing with such a shitty linemate? Which is it?? Miky has been ass this year. Is Lafferty the key that opens the vault?

I never got the Hoglander hate. But then again I never had lovers nuts for Beagle, Sutter,,Eriksson, Roussel, Sbisa, OEL etc. But that’s just me.

Petey’s new contract puts him in company with guys named MacKinnon, McDavid, Pastrnak, Panarin, and Kopitar. These are players who carry a line on their back regardless of who is on that line. The reason people like myself (and Topper) have been critical of Pettersson all year is because everyone was talking about his contract and forecasting it in that 11-12 M range…..as you yourself have pointed out, he needs a particular type of someone to carry his lunch for him. Therefore he does not belong in that group of players.

[Madcombinepilot]

Fuck.

[Cornuck]

Fuck.

You either just ran into messier again, or heard the Demko news.

[UWSaint]

I've sung this song before, but it really is all about having a core that is good enough to be competitive to win the Stanley Cup one day. Getting that core is usually the result of some good fortune in the draft, though occasionally a core player can be discarded before they are good enough to be in a core (like Miller), picked up in Free Agency, or traded for when the trading team needs to rebuild or the player is demanding (or context necessitates) a new environment (Eichel). Building the right complements around the core is a continual process, the best complements price themselves out or must be moved past when core players graduate into contracts that primarily cover UFA seasons.

Core players are rare assets. If they aren't good enough to be the key pieces of a team that with the right complements win a Cup, then you consider abandoning the core and turning them into assets whose expected value comes from future performance.

Canucks management assessed the Canucks core. The determined, rightly in my view, that those they kept had what it takes, they just need better complements. The Canucks' core is Demko, Petersson, Hughes, and Miller. At the edges of the core are Boeser and Hronek -- the team's most valuable complements to the core, but still movable if the sum of complements would be greater. Everyone else is a less valuable complement.

The question regarding Pettersson at his signing is as it was when the new management came in to take stock: is this a player part of a core on a team that is competitive for the Stanley Cup? Before the signing, my vote on this question was yes, in part informed by the fact there was big time talent in Hughes, Demko, that Miller might be high end for a few more years, and that a true rebuild isn't a safe bet to build a better core. The answer at Petey's signing was less complicated because all of the new information from the time Rutherford and Allvin were hired to the time Petey was signed indicated that the open question of whether this core could compete at the highest level pointed in a yes direction. Playing closer to their potential, surrounded by a better group of complementary players, this is a team that can be in the top quartile of goals scored and fewest goals against. They were at the top of the division, and while expectations were exceeded, it never felt flukey.

Maybe they overpaid Pettersson. Surely he has shown hot-cold swings throughout his career that don't seem to effect the greatest players in the game. But the sum has been very impressive. Over a point a game through a 5 year NHL career, pretty good defensive play to go along with that, and a contract that only consumes typical prime years.

Overpaying a core player by $1M or $2M is far less detrimental to an organization than losing a core player. Because the Canucks core is minimally sized as it is, they don't have internal candidates worthy of stepping into that role, and trading EP40 likely brings back future ceilings to a remainder of the core that's in their prime now.

Topper wondered whether that contract is placing a pressure on the cap that would make this a one and done thing. Possibly -- but the flip side is that is that removing Pettersson from the core and replacing him with the trade returns (which are almost surely going to comprise in part well-off-into-the-future performance) is more likely to do so.

There's handwringing over whether the Canucks can sign Joshua, keep a big blue line, etc. I get that, but come on, let's not piss ourselves over these things. The next Dakota Joshua will be available like the last one -- a late bloomer cast off by another team. A GM has to go to the beach with his metal detector. The next set of trees on defense can be acquired (and hopefully a little can come from the system). It's a challenge for management to find complements and be smart about it. It's a hard thing to do well, but pro scouting and team construction doesn't rely on good fortune nearly as much as amateur scouting, the draft lottery balls, and a draft pick turning into the top scoring player of a deep draft (like, say, EP40 in 2017....). Demko, Hughes, and EP40 matured, the Canucks have their first legitimate core since Torts, and its time to run with it come hell or high water.

Having guys like IM65 making $4.75M and providing value closer to $2.25M is so much worse than overpaying a guy like EP40 by $2.5M if Petey's true value were $9.1M. Because there's a huge supply of players that are UFA aged (or available in trades) that provide the value 65 provides, but there aren't a lot of guys out there that can do what EP40 does even while pricing in the periodic droughts. Contracts like IM65 with performances like this year or that dead cap space is a far bigger problem to a team than keeping a guy at too high a price who is still an all star level player. (And for what its worth, I fully expect EP40 to produce at over a point a game over the course of his contract, and that with the Cap moving, he's not going to be the fifth highest player very long).

Last bit on this long post, the thought I had Sunday night when I saw the line combos was that Pettersson was the center with the worst linemates. I think I'd rather see him between an underperforming IM65 and PDG than Lafferty and Hoglander (and I'd prefer IM65 and Hoglander). Lafferty shares two things with Jake Virtanen, his jersey and his miniscule offensive zone IQ. Hoglander's always been a hard worker individually, but never has been good at using teammates. This year he figured out better how his teammates can use him, he's a bit more opportunistic, but he still hasn't figured out how to use teammates. Petey's going to play best with more dynamic players because EP40's game is partly based on intelligence, and intelligence with intelligence has a multiplier effect. I was thinking, man, if Lindholm can look like a whole different player between Garland and Joshua, what would that line look like with Pettersson at the pivot? (I'm not saying its the best line combo for the Canucks because Lindholm hasn't worked anywhere else, but it would certainly be better for EP40).

[Topper]

Rickey called out Pettersson in his pre game presser. LOL

This is more so on Pettersson, he's the one who held out on his last deal. He's the one who wanted to defer on negotiating the new deal until the team was in a post season lineup bind. He's the one who held out for better than Nylander money.

According to some, he's the one unable to earn his fifth highest salary in the league unless he has 40 goal scorer and 100 pt players as line mates. Those players do fine without him and are having career years. Why should they be doing the heavy lifting for the prima donna. For that money, he needs to be the one carrying his line, not the one carried by his line. He is not an elite talent in the league and should not be paid like one.

[Madcombinepilot]

Fuck.

You either just ran into messier again, or heard the Demko news.

Saw one on TV, and read the internet...

So, "yes to both"

[Blob Mckenzie]

Pettersson never held out on any deal. Did Hughes also hold out? They didn’t have contracts. That isn’t a hold out.

As for this 5th highest player contract,,let’s see where he is after year one of that deal. I can guarantee it won’t be 5th in the league. Furthermore he hasn’t even started “11.6 “….

I remember so many people thinking Miller was a bum and they wanted to trade him halfway through the 22/23 season. The melting archives has saved a shovel full of crow shit and eggs for these meat puppets. Folks saying he’d need a 1st attached to him and get rid of that shitty contract.

The kid has struggled and is playing with inferior linemates. Cut him a bit of slack.