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Madcombinepilot wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:45 am
Baertschi will have to have a MASSIVE upswing to his game. IMO, he is a 40-45 point guy. The weak link on our first line. If Goldobin comes to camp with consistency in his work ethic, he can challenge for that first line winger spot - he has the skill set (and in fantasy land, so could Virtanen).. In reality, the team keeps both Goldobin and Baertschi for 20-30 games to see who wants/wins the spot, and one of them is traded before xmas. For the first time (in perhaps team history) we have depth for top 6 prospects. They all need a shot to see who is going to take the big step. Worst thing I can see this team doing is placing too high a value on young guys, and hanging on to them for too long. I am not saying to give up on them early, but Coach and Mgmt needs to get them evaluated quickly, then make some hard decisions.
Interesting point re. Baertschi. The way I saw it, he was on a 50+ point trajectory through November when the 1st line was playing together. Then he got hurt, then Bo got hurt, then Boeser got hurt.
I guess I agree that he's the weak link on the 1st line, as I don't think he'll carry a line when the center or star winger get hurt. But we've seen him and Bo improve each year - last year was a minor setback for both due to injuries, but I think if Bo cracks 60 points this year, so will Sven.
If Goldobin were riding shotgun in Sven's place, I agree on 40/45 points projection, but I think its too big of a leap for Goldy to go from 14 points to 50+ in one season. But I guess if he got 14 points in 38 games averaging 12:20, I can see why you'd be more bullish on Goldy than Baer.
Benning and Weisbrod had a “difference in timeframe” from Linden concerning the team’s rebuild. Linden favoured a longer rebuild, while Benning and Weisbrod thought it could be done quicker, so the story goes.
This would help to explain confusion with what the Canucks did on July 1, signing three veteran free agents, after Linden said the team would be “extremely young” next season.
More of the same, Simmons rehash but getting more play. What makes me question the logic of this is that Linden was Benning’s boss. He could have said no, no?
Hockey Widow wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:46 pm
So this I copied from somewhere on the net:
Benning and Weisbrod had a “difference in timeframe” from Linden concerning the team’s rebuild. Linden favoured a longer rebuild, while Benning and Weisbrod thought it could be done quicker, so the story goes.
This would help to explain confusion with what the Canucks did on July 1, signing three veteran free agents, after Linden said the team would be “extremely young” next season.
More of the same, Simmons rehash but getting more play. What makes me question the logic of this is that Linden was Benning’s boss. He could have said no, no?
All the media bullshit artists are running amok with Linden tales.
I heard some of the Botched One on 1040 today.
He claims everyone (owners, Linden, Jimbro, Weisbrod, etc) was on board with a relatively quicker rebuild from day one.
Then, 12-18 months ago, Linden decided it should be a relatively longer rebuild (another 3-4 years).
So, Botch claims, Linden was no longer on the same page as everyone else... which ultimately led to his departure.
But then El Botcho mentions what Jimmy said recently:
"Improve this season and next, make the playoffs in the 2020-2021 season, that's the goal"
Wouldn't that mean they were all still pretty much on the same page?
Although he claims Linden did not want any UFAs signed to anything longer than 2-year terms this summer.
Who knows what was really going on, so much BS floating around.
But hey, did you notice this HW:
Dan Murphy
@sportsnetmurph
"Not sure Linden and ownership always saw eye to eye. Believe he would have stepped down if told to gas WD after his second year behind bench"
All the "stuff" will go on and on, BUT;
I don't get a sense of malice or conspiracies or "Dirty Deeds Done Dirt Cheap".
So, I am at least confident the right man is at the helm right now.
All I wanna do now is ROCK ON and build a freakin dynasty.
Meh .... whatever. The free agent signings were poor but not Eriksson poor. Schallers deal is fine. Either way I think Linden was little more than a figurehead to insulate the Italians and Elmer. I think Elmer and Weisbrod will be gassed with anything less than 90 points this coming year
“I don’t care what you and some other poster were talking about”
I always thought that Linden and Benning wanted to do a long rebuild but had directions from the Aqualinis that it was to be a short one. Remember how touchy Linden and Benning were early on when reporters mentioned the Canucks needed to do a "rebuild" and they would say it was a quick retooling but not a "rebuild". I suspect they mouthed the quick side of things but were more focused also on the true rebuild. This might now have caused friction with the owners or perhaps Linden simply decided that they need to do a longer rebuild. The Linden/Benning friction seems odd to me. What is interesting is that wherever Weisbrod goes trouble seems to follow. I haven't a clue what really happened; however, for some reason I wonder if he is more involved in this.
Linden was out of his element in any type of hockey ops position, the guy hadn’t been following hockey when he got hired, was heavily involved with the nhlpa, I think the hope was he’d help with image for the Canucks but he got it in his head he should have a major say in things and that caused issues. I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole hamhuis situation wasn’t Aquilini’s but Trevor’s doing trying to be too pro player.
It just will not be left alone.
But it should be.
There is truly only one person who can, to a large degree, lay this to rest so the "CURRENT" Canucks can get to work.
Untll that happens,,,,, https://twitter.com/dhaliwalsports?lang=en
I don't understand a disagreement between being ready next year to compete for the playoffs or the year after in terms of direction. The team is in a rebuild (and there really is little left that can be torn down for assets to help it). It isn't over until the next core needs only supplements to compete. That next forward core is comprised of Pettersson, Horvat, Boeser, and whatever prospect selected from 2014 forward (including JV, though nothing says "core" about him yet; other possibilities are Gaudette, Goldobin, and Dahlen) steps forward in a big way this season or next. Until that core proves that it only needs supplements to be playoff-making competitive (and thus a big fish that make it playoff-winning competitive), we can't know when the rebuild is done. And they are going to be given 2 or 3 seasons to prove it, because the alternative likely is starting over. The point is, whether one thinks the rebuild is done in 18 months or 3 or 4 years, the *players' performance* is now the driving factor, not managerial strategy. (It would be different if the disagreement in the organization was we're ready now (not in 12-18 months) -- Horvat and Boeser are enough -- let's package up Pettersson and get Karlsson!)
Importantly, no free agency move in the past 2 years is driven by the rebuild ending in 1 year, 3 years, or 4 years. None of these moves affects the next core in terms of supplementing it or development (except to provide marginal level protection -- from too much responsibility (last season) and on-ice harassment (this season)). None of these moves cost assets to acquire or saddled the Canucks with cap-crippling contracts. (Even Eriksson will come off the books when the new core starts hitting its core competitiveness window). Rebuilds are over when teams look to move future assets for current ones or when they look to free agency to eat up future needed cap space instead of keeping things open for when ELCs and RFAs are ending. The Canucks didn't do this.
The first try to get the Canucks a new forward core were the trades for the Horvat pick forward (the acquisitions of Vey, Granlund, Baerstchi, the McCann pick and you might count Etem in the mix (though I wouldn't because it was a low level asset for a really low return potential forward)). The attempt was to hope that some fairly high draft picks from 2010/12 would take a big step forward and be ready to be big contributors when the acquired 13 and 14 (JV, Horvat, McCann) top picks busted into the league (if they had played through junior and maybe a season or two in the AHL) with success. This was a risky play because it depended on prospects that had not exceeded their developmental curve (Vey, Granlund) or were perceived disappointments (Baertschi) changing their development arc for the better. Baertschi, I think, has become when healthy a decent second line winger caliber player in this league; Granlund might still stick it out as a role player in this league. (My overall opinion of both of these players is more favorable than the average commentator, I think, but not wild-eyed). Vey and Etem flamed out, and of the three high picks (all young enough to be part of Wave B), only one (Horvat) stepped up his game at a pace that would make him a core player when these players' hoped-for spiked development was done and they were established as legitimate threats (of which non are, but Baerstchi is a decent player).
At any rate, I can see disagreement about whether that Plan A approach was the right one breaking up an organization 4 years ago. I can see wanting to hold on to Plan A longer as breaking up an organization 2 years ago. But there was unanimity, I think, that this plan didn't work out. Assets were moved to acquire potential next core players Goldobin and Dahlen (neither of which will necessarily be in that core, though the moves were good ones and maximized aging assets). Soured prospect for Plan A (and eligible for wave B) prospect McCann was moved to address known and foreseeable in the future weakness (D). (JV is in limbo -- but at least he is cheap, deserves a lineup spot, and still is progressing albeit a step at a time). And whether the time horizon is now 18 months or 3 years, the difference is a disagreement about development impacts of the very same players who are part of Wave B -- and nothing different would be done in the next 5 months depending on optimism level. And in 5 months, we may know a lot more whether the optimists were correct, but if they were not, it would still be premature to decide that this Wave B isn't going to work.
UWSaint wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:17 am
I don't understand a disagreement between being ready next year to compete for the playoffs or the year after in terms of direction. The team is in a rebuild (and there really is little left that can be torn down for assets to help it). It isn't over until the next core needs only supplements to compete.
Excellent post, as usual, UW.
The point is, whether one thinks the rebuild is done in 18 months or 3 or 4 years, the *players' performance* is now the driving factor, not managerial strategy. (It would be different if the disagreement in the organization was we're ready now (not in 12-18 months) -- Horvat and Boeser are enough -- let's package up Pettersson and get Karlsson!)
I think this remains to be seen, and we'll likely find out over the next year or so. My gut feeling is that this is the kind of move ownership might push for. They're fanboys. They see the media praising our prospect pool (for the first time in, like, ever). It wouldn't shock me if they thought we had the prospect depth to start making those types of trades.
You're right in that we don't have much of a choice at this point, there's not much management can do to improve the future outlook for the team beyond the draft table. What scares me is that they might be pressured to try.
SKYO wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:48 pm
Plus remember TL didn't like fighters and agitators, he seemed like the type that would tell the team to simmer down boys. lol
Him getting Zamboni'd by Claude the turtle Lemieux was where i lost respect. He was making the same faces that daniel sedin was making while getting speedbagged by the rat
