Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

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Richardstroker69
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Richardstroker69 »

Mëds wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:31 am
Vin Tanner wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:35 am
Curmudgeon wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:32 am Well it's 6 years @ $9 million for Makar so Hughes at $7 million for a shorter bridge perhaps?
Makar is the better player so I’m thinking 3 years and 6 million per for Hughes.
Have to ask one’s self, how much better does Hughes look playing most of his minutes with MacKinnon, Landeskog, and Rantanen?

I can’t see Quinn’s agent asking for less than $7.5M under any circumstances, and likely wants $8M.

Also, it could be argued that based on respective rosters Hughes individual value to Vancouver is equal or greater than Makar’s to Colorado.
This is absurd, he had a down year, he has no leverage in negotiations, he’s not as good as makar. It’s like vin said it’ll be 5.5-6.5 for 3 years. I personally think it’ll be just a hair under 6. His closest comparable is mcavoy. Now if it’s long term then 7.5-8 makes sense.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Meds »

Richardstroker69 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:25 pm
Mëds wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:31 am
Vin Tanner wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:35 am
Curmudgeon wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:32 am Well it's 6 years @ $9 million for Makar so Hughes at $7 million for a shorter bridge perhaps?
Makar is the better player so I’m thinking 3 years and 6 million per for Hughes.
Have to ask one’s self, how much better does Hughes look playing most of his minutes with MacKinnon, Landeskog, and Rantanen?

I can’t see Quinn’s agent asking for less than $7.5M under any circumstances, and likely wants $8M.

Also, it could be argued that based on respective rosters Hughes individual value to Vancouver is equal or greater than Makar’s to Colorado.
This is absurd, he had a down year, he has no leverage in negotiations, he’s not as good as makar. It’s like vin said it’ll be 5.5-6.5 for 3 years. I personally think it’ll be just a hair under 6. His closest comparable is mcavoy. Now if it’s long term then 7.5-8 makes sense.
What's absurd is saying that a guy with 122 points in 235 games on a very good team is the closest comparable to a guy with 97 points in 129 games on a crappy team.

Offensively Hughes is probably every bit as good as Makar, it's just that Makar has a steadier own-zone game. Hughes would probably have closer to 110 points if he was feeding MacKinnon and Rantanen on the PP.

Another drive by stroking from the guy with bantam locker room handle. :roll:
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by donlever »

By the stats you wrote there (if no typo because I did not bother checking) and considering your claim (not wrong obviously) of Colorados superiority to us it appears Hughes may be the higher grade offensive player.

Stats provided opinion only but certainly an analytic his agent would use.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

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I just checked the stats.

Clearly I missed your point.

Likely I did not read enough of the conversation.

My bad....
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Richardstroker69 »

Mëds wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:54 pm
Richardstroker69 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:25 pm
Mëds wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:31 am
Vin Tanner wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:35 am
Curmudgeon wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:32 am Well it's 6 years @ $9 million for Makar so Hughes at $7 million for a shorter bridge perhaps?
Makar is the better player so I’m thinking 3 years and 6 million per for Hughes.
Have to ask one’s self, how much better does Hughes look playing most of his minutes with MacKinnon, Landeskog, and Rantanen?

I can’t see Quinn’s agent asking for less than $7.5M under any circumstances, and likely wants $8M.

Also, it could be argued that based on respective rosters Hughes individual value to Vancouver is equal or greater than Makar’s to Colorado.
This is absurd, he had a down year, he has no leverage in negotiations, he’s not as good as makar. It’s like vin said it’ll be 5.5-6.5 for 3 years. I personally think it’ll be just a hair under 6. His closest comparable is mcavoy. Now if it’s long term then 7.5-8 makes sense.
What's absurd is saying that a guy with 122 points in 235 games on a very good team is the closest comparable to a guy with 97 points in 129 games on a crappy team.

Offensively Hughes is probably every bit as good as Makar, it's just that Makar has a steadier own-zone game. Hughes would probably have closer to 110 points if he was feeding MacKinnon and Rantanen on the PP.

Another drive by stroking from the guy with bantam locker room handle. :roll:
And you don’t get what type of contract Quinn is currently on, hint it’s different from maker’s, which is why mcavoy is a good comparable (also pretty sure mcavoy didn’t get pp1 time like Hughes does).
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Meds »

Richardstroker69 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:44 pm
Mëds wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:54 pm
Richardstroker69 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:25 pm
Mëds wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:31 am
Vin Tanner wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:35 am
Curmudgeon wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:32 am Well it's 6 years @ $9 million for Makar so Hughes at $7 million for a shorter bridge perhaps?
Makar is the better player so I’m thinking 3 years and 6 million per for Hughes.
Have to ask one’s self, how much better does Hughes look playing most of his minutes with MacKinnon, Landeskog, and Rantanen?

I can’t see Quinn’s agent asking for less than $7.5M under any circumstances, and likely wants $8M.

Also, it could be argued that based on respective rosters Hughes individual value to Vancouver is equal or greater than Makar’s to Colorado.
This is absurd, he had a down year, he has no leverage in negotiations, he’s not as good as makar. It’s like vin said it’ll be 5.5-6.5 for 3 years. I personally think it’ll be just a hair under 6. His closest comparable is mcavoy. Now if it’s long term then 7.5-8 makes sense.
What's absurd is saying that a guy with 122 points in 235 games on a very good team is the closest comparable to a guy with 97 points in 129 games on a crappy team.

Offensively Hughes is probably every bit as good as Makar, it's just that Makar has a steadier own-zone game. Hughes would probably have closer to 110 points if he was feeding MacKinnon and Rantanen on the PP.

Another drive by stroking from the guy with bantam locker room handle. :roll:
And you don’t get what type of contract Quinn is currently on, hint it’s different from maker’s, which is why mcavoy is a good comparable (also pretty sure mcavoy didn’t get pp1 time like Hughes does).
Which is another reason that would make McAvoy a poor comparable.

I get that QH can’t be offer sheeted and is on that other RFA contract. But common sense says you don’t put the screws to him right now on what will likely be a bridge deal if you are hoping he’s going to be a core piece on your top pairing for the next decade.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Cookie La Rue »

Cornuck wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:32 pm I'm looking forward to it already. :thumbs:
:mrgreen: me too and fuck the Rangers.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by rikster »

Mëds wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:51 am
donlever wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:38 am Possibly no better in his own zone Mëds which is where Makar has the most substantial leg up?

Lol...pure supposition...never seen either of them play....can only go by what I've read here and elsewhere.....
I’ve seen both play, and Makar is smarter positionally on defence. But the advantage of much better linemates means he’s exposed less often. I don’t think the difference between their defensive games is as glaring as their respective teams and coaching systems makes them seem.

This is another classic Benning bungle. Had he signed QH no biggie, now he’s behind the 8-ball on this one because he didn’t get it done quickly and Hughes’ agent was just handed a clip of full metal jackets.

He (and others) will defend this by saying Benning needed roster clarity first and wasn’t sure who Seattle would take and what trades he could make to clear cap and improve the rest of the roster, etc…..

Similar excuse last year with Toffoli’s exit.

All because he signed players to inflated value contracts and needed to dump them.

We are now looking at a top-4 costing us

OEL - $7.2M
Myers - $6M
Schmidt - $6M
Hughes - $7+M

That’s hefty and lacking in RHD, and Myers often plays at the level of a #5.
Why would Quinn sign a deal, especially one that is favorable to the team, before Makar and Heiskanen signed theirs?

The NHL works on an "as compared to" method to set contract values and in this case both Makar and Heiskanen are considered to be the better players so now that those 2 have signed their deals, both the team and the player have a pretty good idea of what Quinns new deal will look like...

I'm guessing the only decision for both sides is do they want to go with a shorter, bridge type of deal to save cap space or do they prefer to go long term and buy free agency years?

Listening to one of the NHL shows, they were discussing the salary cap in 2 to 3 years time and predicting that it would hit the $100 million mark which might explain why some of these recent long term deals to Jones and Makar and Heiskanen seem out of whack with the current flat cap...

Take care...
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Rikster, watch out for the Bully of Senior Citizens, he may not like that post
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

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Chef Boi RD wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:41 am Rikster, watch out for the Bully of Senior Citizens, he may not like that post
lol, not quite a senior citizen but still at my playing weight and working out 5 to 6 days a week...

I'm just talking out of my rear end end like the rest of us so I don't get overly worked up when I'm proven wrong or others disagree with my opinions...

Not sure why some get so bent out of shape if someone disagrees with them...

Take care...
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Chef Boi RD »

rikster wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:55 am
Chef Boi RD wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:41 am Rikster, watch out for the Bully of Senior Citizens, he may not like that post
lol, not quite a senior citizen but still at my playing weight and working out 5 to 6 days a week...

I'm just talking out of my rear end end like the rest of us so I don't get overly worked up when I'm proven wrong or others disagree with my opinions...

Not sure why some get so bent out of shape if someone disagrees with them...

Take care...
When vin disagrees he gets violent about it. He’s that drunk guy you see at gas stations shadow boxing imaginary people who did him wrong in the past, the swing of his own haymaker usually topples him due to the centripetal force combined with the vertigo imbalances created by high levels of intoxication
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

Chef Boi RD wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:02 am
rikster wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:55 am
Chef Boi RD wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:41 am Rikster, watch out for the Bully of Senior Citizens, he may not like that post
lol, not quite a senior citizen but still at my playing weight and working out 5 to 6 days a week...

I'm just talking out of my rear end end like the rest of us so I don't get overly worked up when I'm proven wrong or others disagree with my opinions...

Not sure why some get so bent out of shape if someone disagrees with them...

Take care...
When vin disagrees he gets violent about it. He’s that drunk guy you see at gas stations shadow boxing imaginary people who did him wrong in the past, the swing of his own haymaker usually topples him due to the centripetal force combined with the vertigo imbalances created by high levels of intoxication
:lol:

His butt back flying out of his rolled sleeve
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by Curmudgeon »

Be glad the Canucks didn't pull a move for Jones. Imagine doling out Rathbone, another decent young player, the 1st picks this year and next, and an additional 2nd rounder and then signing him to an 8 x $9.5 million deal. That's a big no thanks.

Now we get to look forward to watching the Oilers give 29 year old Zach Hyman a 7/8 x $5.5 million deal this week and scramble to replace Larsson.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

Post by ESQ »

Mëds wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:54 pm
Offensively Hughes is probably every bit as good as Makar, it's just that Makar has a steadier own-zone game. Hughes would probably have closer to 110 points if he was feeding MacKinnon and Rantanen on the PP.

Another drive by stroking from the guy with bantam locker room handle. :roll:
I'm building out a theory the right-shooting D are so much more rare in the NHL that it inflates their value by ~10%.

Imagine Myers at $5.4M? I don't think anyone complains. Look at Weber's insane deal as (at the time) the greatest RD in the NHL. Look at Ekblad going 1stOA, and look at Gudbranson going 4thOA.

I think Makar and Hughes are very similar, but as pointed out the Avs' season was far different from the COVID-cursed Canucks season. I was surprised to see that for a 24-minute Dman, Makar still had 70% offensive zone starts - almost identical to Hughes'. I'm not huge into fancy stats, but that number is a pretty good indicator of deployment and with a big difference like that (70/30), it shows that the coach was deliberately putting them in primarily offensive situations.

I have to say, I'm pretty surprised Makar got that deal out of Sakic. He got Seth Jones money after 2 seasons, both with semi-serious injury trouble. He didn't get the max-term and the extra 2 UFA years locked up for that massive cap hit.

Obviously Makar is an amazing player, and anyone would love to have him on their team. He's a great player, but that's certainly not a great contract - unless you factor in a 10% right-handed bonus, Makar for 6x$8.2M is a lot more reasonable to me.
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Re: Around the league (signings, RFAs injuries)

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Craig Morgan @CraigSMorgan
Per source, Coyotes UFA D Niklas Hjalmarsson is retiring. I don't expect a formal announcement or statement from Nik. Those who have covered him or known him know that is not his style.
He was an integral part of 3 Stanley Cups in Chicago and the consummate pro on/off the ice.
12:08 PM · Jul 25, 2021·
Definitely a younger Arizona team in the horizon..
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