Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

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herb
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Post by herb » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:20 pm

mathonwy wrote:Seriously guys?

You're blaming Kesler for looking out for himself considering how much Gillis and Co fucked our team post cup run?
Oh mathonwy...Yes I'm blaming Kesler for having a one team trade list. That was an absurdly dick move.
mathonwy wrote:D) Injury prone, selfish prick? Geezes Herb. Just like the Burr haters. What have you done for me lately right? :(
Do you not agree that Kesler got injured a lot?

Do you not agree that demanding a trade to one organization is not selfish? Do you think this was not a prick thing to do?

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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Post by Cornuck » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:23 pm

mathonwy wrote:Seriously guys?

You're blaming Kesler for looking out for himself...

...but a contract is a contract...
Yep - he had a contract and he wanted the security of an NTC when it suited him. If he wanted out, I don't care - but when you sign a NTC and then demand a trade and then limit the teams you can go to (were the Ducks the only contender there?) you're not a 'team' guy any more. You're just another rich asshole.

He's made enough money, he could have sucked it up and stayed true to the contract he signed.
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herb
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Post by herb » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:33 pm

Cornuck wrote:He's made enough money, he could have sucked it up and stayed true to the contract he signed.
Could you imagine Tim Duncan, Super Mario or even our very own Trevor Linden or Markus Naslund demanding a trade to one team only when things got rough?

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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Post by ClamRussel » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:55 pm

herb wrote:
Cornuck wrote:He's made enough money, he could have sucked it up and stayed true to the contract he signed.
Could you imagine Tim Duncan, Super Mario or even our very own Trevor Linden or Markus Naslund demanding a trade to one team only when things got rough?
The fact is he wanted to go to the Ducks much more than he wanted out of Vancouver. If it was so bad here he would have accepted a deal to several teams. He was simply cherry-picking beyond reason.
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mathonwy
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Post by mathonwy » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:09 pm

herb wrote:
mathonwy wrote:Seriously guys?

You're blaming Kesler for looking out for himself considering how much Gillis and Co fucked our team post cup run?
Oh mathonwy...Yes I'm blaming Kesler for having a one team trade list. That was an absurdly dick move.
Oh herb...

I fail to see how exercising a clause negotiated in one's contract can be classified as an "absurdly dick move".

The only way I can how one would see this as an "absurdly dick move" is one having the mindset of "omg, how dare Kesler do something that is not advantageous to the team that I care about".

Herb, if you are of this mindset then I'll excuse myself from this discussion.
herb wrote:
mathonwy wrote:D) Injury prone, selfish prick? Geezes Herb. Just like the Burr haters. What have you done for me lately right? :(
Do you not agree that Kesler got injured a lot?
I fail to see how the fact that Kesler has gotten injured in the past few seasons plays any part in this discussion. I brought these words up because YOU are the one that are using them to describe a player that's done very well for us during the time he's been here. In fact, the fact that he's gotten injured so much gives weight to MY argument that Kesler has been a very good player for us as getting injured usually means one is pushing one's self to the limits.


herb wrote: Do you not agree that demanding a trade to one organization is not selfish? Do you think this was not a prick thing to do?
Like I said before, I fail to see how exercising a clause negotiated in one's contract can be classified as a "prick" thing to do.

Contract terms aside, the Canuck organization have benefited a tonne from this contract as Ryan Kesler at 5M a season is absolutely dirt cheap. But now that Kesler has had enough and tries to take control over his destiny (as is his right as per his contract), he's suddenly a prick?

Again, "omg, Kesler is doing something that doesn't benefit my team so he's the devil" mentality.

You're welcome to it but I'll call you out on it every single time.

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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Post by ClamRussel » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:14 pm

How about honouring the contract?
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mathonwy
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Post by mathonwy » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:21 pm

Cornuck wrote:
mathonwy wrote:Seriously guys?

You're blaming Kesler for looking out for himself...

...but a contract is a contract...
Yep - he had a contract and he wanted the security of an NTC when it suited him. If he wanted out, I don't care - but when you sign a NTC and then demand a trade and then limit the teams you can go to (were the Ducks the only contender there?) you're not a 'team' guy any more. You're just another rich asshole.

He's made enough money, he could have sucked it up and stayed true to the contract he signed.
The whole Kesler demanding a trade thing is more of that he said/she said media bullshit and was a tactic Mike Gillis used to gain leverage. This is not the first time Gillis has used the media to sway the court of public opinion to paint the player in a negative way as we all saw how fucked the Luongo situation became.

Obviously I don't know the whole truth as I'm just a fan trying to read between the lines. I'm just cautious about this type of stuff as Mike GIllis is a snake.

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mathonwy
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Post by mathonwy » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:28 pm

ClamRussel wrote:How about honouring the contract?
I fully support players honoring their contract.

We all knew that last season's trade deadline was the time period where Ryan Kesler's trade value was the highest. Mike Gillis obviously knows this too. Kesler publicly said he didn't want be traded but Gillis probably starts pressuring Kesler on possible trade destinations. Then the Sochi rumours start flying around.

And ultimately, Kesler doesn't get traded but Luo gets traded... in the span of a day.

How fucked is that?

Probably 8 out of 10 fucked IMO.

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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Post by ClamRussel » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:39 pm

Do you really believe that? IF it was Gillis and not Kesler, then why did Kesler tell Benning he wanted out? It was a new regime, a fresh start yet he wanted nothing to do with the team. It would appear it was Kesler who requested the trade and not Gillis wanting to move him.

Kesler had a contract & he should have honoured it. He didn't. On top of that, he handcuffed the club.
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Post by mathonwy » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:57 pm

ClamRussel wrote:Do you really believe that? IF it was Gillis and not Kesler, then why did Kesler tell Benning he wanted out? It was a new regime, a fresh start yet he wanted nothing to do with the team. It would appear it was Kesler who requested the trade and not Gillis wanting to move him.

Kesler had a contract & he should have honoured it. He didn't. On top of that, he handcuffed the club.
I wouldn't state it if I didn't believe it Clam ol boy.

Gillis is a very sneaky dude that likes to play games.

Why did Kesler tell Benning he wanted out? Maybe because, just like the rest of us, he can't see the Canucks being competitive for the next couple/few years? And Kesler is 30 and now "injury prone".
ClamRussel wrote: It would appear it was Kesler who requested the trade and not Gillis wanting to move him.
You hit the nail on the head. It's all appearances at this point of time.

My point is, I think its unfair to demonize a player based on a whole lot of hearsay that happened in a very short amount of time during a very chaotic time and conveniently forget the things the player HAS done for the organization.

Just like I think its unfair to demonize Alex Burrows for a cluster of a season last year and conveniently forget everything he's for us before that.

Same with Luo... you DO know that Luo demanded a trade right? He had had enough of the Torts bullshit after the Winter Classic SNAFU and pretty much demanded a trade to Florida... and we got Sean Matthias and Markstrom back... :( Is Luo a selfish prick too? The answer is no because the media has swayed the court of public opinion to be sympathetic to Luo. And why did the media do that? Because of @strombone1.

It's a game Clam... pure and simple.

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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Post by Hockey Widow » Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:13 pm

Players want LTC with NTC to their advantage. Kesler got his, good value and a good deal for him too, with his NTC. They are quick to grab the money and term. In this case when the going got tough Kesler and Luongo wanted out. I lose respect for that.

Who I respect? Bobby Ryan. He has come out and said he rejected an 8 year deal, not because of money, but because he is unsure if he is prepared to commit long term with Ottawa at this point. He wants to see from them a committment to build a contender and spend the necessary dollars to achieve that. There is a player walking away from a LTC right up front and saying he needs to be motivated in ways other than the LTC to sign on that long. And if he sees that over the course of this season he will sign on long term. Honest and refreshing. Different from grabbing the money like Spezza then whining and wanting out.

Both Kesler and Luongo were happy with their contracts at the time. But at least Luongo was professional about it and in the end would have waived to go pretty well anywhere. That one MG fucked up. But Kesler was selfish and put himself ahead of everything else. He was treated like a gawd here. Ya, I am pissed he handcuffed the Canucks. But I am also happy with the return.
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Post by ClamRussel » Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:18 pm

Apples & oranges here mathonwy. Lu also handcuffed the Canucks no doubt about it. A bit of a different situation though because in that case initially it was the Canucks who were trying to trade him as Cory had taken over the #1 position. The other thing is, Kesler lied. He straight up said he didn't request a trade & was shocked & hurt these rumours were coming out in the media. He then when on to talk about teammates & turning things around here. Hell, even Bieksa believed him. Turns out, it was all a lie. Even then, Canucks fans might be more forgiving if he didn't pull the one 1-team BS on Benning. If he had even provided 6 teams I think most fans would be much more understanding.

Now Kesler is whining about the media here. HW is correct that he was treated very well here, even by the media. He just didn't like it when he wanted his ludicrous trade demands free of criticism.
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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Post by mathonwy » Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:43 pm

Hockey Widow wrote: Both Kesler and Luongo were happy with their contracts at the time. But at least Luongo was professional about it and in the end would have waived to go pretty well anywhere. That one MG fucked up. But Kesler was selfish and put himself ahead of everything else. He was treated like a gawd here. Ya, I am pissed he handcuffed the Canucks. But I am also happy with the return.
Luongo professional about it? Oh how short our memories are:



Luo would have waived to go pretty well anywhere because he was a beaten man that was tired of fighting.

A big part of Kesler's perception of being selfish is because it was spun that way. You're painting a picture where the Canucks are blameless and that's a false picture.

Oh well. Whatevs. The media does what the media does.

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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Post by Island Nucklehead » Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:35 pm

mathonwy wrote: A big part of Kesler's perception of being selfish is because it was spun that way. You're painting a picture where the Canucks are blameless and that's a false picture.

Oh well. Whatevs. The media does what the media does.
Some would say he exercised his contractual rights, I would say he jumped ship. He can't have his cake and eat it too. He can't claim to be a fantastic teammate and a real professional when we know that he lied to his teammates about wanting out, that he refused to give management any options, and continued to act like a dick when he was finally moved. Frankly, it's hilarious he's trashing the media in Vancouver... according to some folks he was concerned about his endorsement deals prior to being traded. Hey Ryan, those guys that you're criticizing raise your profile, which puts money in your pocket. If he was playing in Anaheim his entire career, he'd be a nobody.

Ryan Kesler is a me-first hockey player and a me-first person. I'd call that selfish. To each their own, some people are just assholes and they're allowed to be. I won't be mad at him, that's how he was born and it seems to have worked for him so far in life. Doesn't mean I have to cheer for him or wish him well with his new team.

As much as I appreciated the effort Kesler gave when he played for us, now that he's not, I'm hoping Bieksa punches his nose right out the back of his empty skull.

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Re: Vancouver's Hockey "Media"

Post by BurningBeard » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:12 pm

I wonder if Kesler would react to getting scratched in a playoff game the same way Selanne did.

Hope he gets along with Boudreau...
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