GDT - 12/20/2007 Canucks vs Stars 7PM TV PPV Radio TEAM 1040

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Postby mattola » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:18 pm

dont get me wrong Im not coming down on you for this. I was just curious to see how the numbers were delivered. I just wanted some more insight to how the media worked to better understand your side.

thanks for the information.
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Re: LUONGO'S ASSIST: SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT

Postby sic puppy » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:20 pm

I don't live in the Greater Van area and to my knowledge do not have access to 24 Hours Vancouver Magazine. I don't know the background creds of those reporting on the Nux in this paper or on this site.

Having said that, this site is home to some very rabid (at times) Nux fans. I would hope that those reporting here would verify statistical information before posting it .

Opinions obviously are different.

B. Mackin wrote:In the goaltenders' section of today's NHL stats release (for games thru Dec. 20) Roberto Luongo does indeed have three assists. I verified this with the NHL media website.


Was this not available at the time you posted your summary ?

As Mattola questioned, do you follow the team closely ?

B. Mackin wrote:The game box score, as referenced below, was incorrect. I was using the best information available at the time. The error was at source.

This is not a media mistake. Please do not shoot the messenger.


Unfortunately, for some of us, the media all too often stirs the post to create controversy. And, unfortunately for some of us, what the media says is taken for gospel.

Without knowing your history with respect to the Nux reporting, this was an opportunity to question that commitment.

Nothing personel, the gun was loaded with blanks. ;)
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Re: LUONGO'S ASSIST: SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT

Postby Larry Goodenough » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:13 pm

B. Mackin wrote:In the goaltenders' section of today's NHL stats release (for games thru Dec. 20) Roberto Luongo does indeed have three assists. I verified this with the NHL media website.

The game box score, as referenced below, was incorrect. I was using the best information available at the time. The error was at source.

This is not a media mistake. Please do not shoot the messenger. I speak not only for myself, but colleagues at competing outlets. We devote as much time as fans and perhaps even more than fans to watching and researching the game. Unfortunately, media outlets do not have staff statisticians. We work under sometimes unforgiving deadlines and rely heavily on the NHL to provide us with accurate statistical information on NHL games. The statistical record of NHL games is, in fact, copyright of the league. The league should do everything and anything possible to ensure the complete accuracy of the numbers and facts of each game and player.



Early in the season I posted on this message board Luongo had as many points as Bertuzzi after a number of games. It was meant to be tongue in cheek.

I get to watch maybe 1/2 of all Canucks games and missed last night as I refuse to pay for PPV.

The point I think that was being made is, if a guy like me was aware it was Luongo's 3rd assist of the year the second the scoreboard was posted, why is a person like you, hired to follow the team all year, not able to catch that error immediately?

If you point to the mistake being that of the boxscore, I can't trust your posts. If you are indeed following this team as closely as it is insinuated by your title of "reporter with the 24 newspaper", then this is a mistake you should not make, no matter what the boxscore says.

If posters here know more about the team than you, why are we reading your posts?
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Re: LUONGO'S ASSIST: SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT

Postby B. Mackin » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:04 pm

Do you rely on suppliers or clients to deliver quality raw materials so that you can build a finished product for delivery to an end customer?

Might you call upon a trusted co-worker, from time-to-time, to answer a question that needs to be answered ASAP? Like when is your supervisor's birthday? In which municipality does the CEO live? What is the company's courier account number? How many branch offices and factories does the company have worldwide?

Does your job involve working under tight, not-a-moment-to-spare deadlines?

Think about your situation, whatever it may be, and think about mine.

On Canucks' game nights, my story is the last item left to be placed into the paper before it is sent to the printer. I have no moments to spare. I do my best to know as many details as possible, however big or small. There are certain facts, stats and records that are common knowledge or I have memorized. Had Roberto Luongo been approaching or had broken a team or league record for goalie assists, that would be something I would know independent of what's provided by the NHL. Why? Because that is something out of the ordinary or remarkable that I should know and should be delivered to readers.

The game's official statistical summary is the official record of the game. It is produced by NHL employees for distribution to the media. It is copyright of the NHL and as such is to be deemed the gospel of each individual game. If it said (11) beside Luongo, I would have instinctively taken a time out and questioned that, because that's not a reasonable expectation for a goalie to have that many assists before the halfway point. But it said (1). The statisticians are hooked into the NHL database, so it has to be right? Right?

Well, in this case, a good intentioned reader pointed out the error. I explained what happened and made the correction in this forum.

Expect us in the media to do our best to report what happened, offer opinion and facts and stats. Please, do not expect us to memorize every single number on the team's constantly changing statistical record. I am using a computer at this moment, but I am not a computer.

Please do engage me in a discussion on my opinions. Question the facts and stats I used. If it is in dispute, I can provide the source. If I do make a mistake (and we're all human), I will take ownership and make corrections.

I have already reasonably explained what happened and set the record straight in this case. I thank everyone and anyone who takes time out of their busy day to read what I write. It is good to expect good work from the media.

But when I do my best with what I am supplied by what is supposed to be a reliable source, the ultimate source -- the NHL -- please do not shoot the messenger.

If you are still not satisfied, you can contact the NHL and my editor, whose contact info is on vancouver.24hrs.ca





Larry Goodenough wrote:
B. Mackin wrote:In the goaltenders' section of today's NHL stats release (for games thru Dec. 20) Roberto Luongo does indeed have three assists. I verified this with the NHL media website.

The game box score, as referenced below, was incorrect. I was using the best information available at the time. The error was at source.

This is not a media mistake. Please do not shoot the messenger. I speak not only for myself, but colleagues at competing outlets. We devote as much time as fans and perhaps even more than fans to watching and researching the game. Unfortunately, media outlets do not have staff statisticians. We work under sometimes unforgiving deadlines and rely heavily on the NHL to provide us with accurate statistical information on NHL games. The statistical record of NHL games is, in fact, copyright of the league. The league should do everything and anything possible to ensure the complete accuracy of the numbers and facts of each game and player.



Early in the season I posted on this message board Luongo had as many points as Bertuzzi after a number of games. It was meant to be tongue in cheek.

I get to watch maybe 1/2 of all Canucks games and missed last night as I refuse to pay for PPV.

The point I think that was being made is, if a guy like me was aware it was Luongo's 3rd assist of the year the second the scoreboard was posted, why is a person like you, hired to follow the team all year, not able to catch that error immediately?

If you point to the mistake being that of the boxscore, I can't trust your posts. If you are indeed following this team as closely as it is insinuated by your title of "reporter with the 24 newspaper", then this is a mistake you should not make, no matter what the boxscore says.

If posters here know more about the team than you, why are we reading your posts?
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Postby sic puppy » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:41 pm

Thanks for your candid response to what must have been a difficult situation in regard to your relying on statistical info that was clearly incorrect.

I for one appreciate your efforts (and your other colleges from 24 ) in the GDT's as I don't get to see all Nux games or for that matter listen to every game, and this allows me to get caught up.

My belief before your explaination, was that you were the media and had this info at your disposal.

While all media, to some, are painted with the same brush (right or wrong), I appreciate you taking the time to explain your side of this statistical brough ha-ha.

:lol: :lol:
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MERRY X-MAS TO ALL

Postby B. Mackin » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:11 pm

Thank-you.

Merry Christmas to all. I'm not a homer, but two entertaining wins this weekend would be a nice present for everyone.

smalien wrote:Thanks for your candid response to what must have been a difficult situation in regard to your relying on statistical info that was clearly incorrect.

I for one appreciate your efforts (and your other colleges from 24 ) in the GDT's as I don't get to see all Nux games or for that matter listen to every game, and this allows me to get caught up.

My belief before your explaination, was that you were the media and had this info at your disposal.

While all media, to some, are painted with the same brush (right or wrong), I appreciate you taking the time to explain your side of this statistical brough ha-ha.

:lol: :lol:
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Postby sk8er » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:45 pm

my goodness people, don't crucify the guy for a silly little error. So he reported (1) assist when it should have been (3).
Its not like he was reporting we lost the game when we actually won.......
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