Reid Sent Down to the Moose

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Postby *CanucksForLife* » Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:11 pm

Ever since I've heard of Brandon Reid, I've been supprting him. Whetther it him being put on my NHL 06 roster or watching his hustle...I just love this guy and it is a shame to see him go...for now :twisted:
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Postby magnum44 » Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:32 pm

I've always been a Reid supporter but when you look at him objectively it is not much of a surprise he didn't make the initial cut. Decent depth guy to have around in case of injury emergencies but at this point he has been tagged as a "never will be" and would really have to show alot to lose that label. I agree with others who have said he has Mike Sillinger syndrome i.e. not good enough for scoring lines and not suited for 3rd/4th line duties. I think he'll get some callups this season just because our system is so weak but he was brought back more for the Moose than the Canucks I think, especially since a good chunk of Winnipegs team from last year won't be back there.
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Postby Hank » Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:51 pm

magnum44 wrote:I've always been a Reid supporter but when you look at him objectively...


Yeah that's what most fans aren't... objective.

He has not shown any finish or the ability to set up others to finish. Neither has he shown defensive brilliance, or a willingness to mix it up, or be a pest or contribute in other meaningful ways.

Because of his size and skillset his opportunities here are limited. That's life. He can't beat out the top forwards or outcheck the bottom lines. If this was the Buffalo system or we're really bad like a low budget expansion team, then he's got a good chance.

AV would be moronic to keep Reid in the lineup. Until the season proves otherwise, this is still a team on the bubble of a playoff spot. You have to have NHLers with experience in the lineup even if they are only borderline NHLers.
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Postby ClamRussel » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:16 am

Harold wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:
tantalum wrote:everything I've read is that Reid hasn't been impressive at all. He makes a nice rush or two but ultimately does nothing. It's pretty much time to simply admit that Reid is not NHL ready.


Not sure where you're getting that tant, everything I've been hearing is just the opposite in that he been one of the FEW players who's actually CREATING offensive opportunities and that he was one of the standout forwards in most every game he played. True he hadn't been finishing his chances but thats nothing to worry about....when an offensive player doesn't create chances then you should worry. Aside from the Sedins & say Kesler....who's been more impressive INCLUDING veterans on a regular basis during this preseason?


Clam everyone that I've talked to that has seen Reid this camp and in the pre-season games has a similar opinion to Tant: he has a couple good rushes, but ultimately nothing happens. I think you might be overrating his play a bit. If he was one of the standout forwards on the team, don't you think they would have kept him in camp a bit longer just to give him more of a look?
A guy like Reid has to score and generate offence to be worth something to the team, and outside of the first game he hasn't done anything. I think if Reid had have been lighting it up like a guy like Hansen, who scored in most of the scrimmages and games he has played in, he would unquestionably still be with the big club. Hansen has shown through his play that he deserves a longer look with the Canucks, Reid hasn't shown that. Simple as that.


Ok, I'll ask you this....what has Santala shown?

Contracts aside, what has Chouinard shown?

See my point?
This was a VERY lacklustre training camp for ALOT of players....I don't think I was overrating Reid and I actually DON'T think he was spectacular or a slam-dunk by any means....my viewpoint comes from the fact I don't think the majority of players at this camp showed much of anything, let alone hustle or <gasp> offence. It was more a jab at some of the other guys...many of whom are still w/ the club.
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Postby ClamRussel » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:21 am

Kitscanucks wrote:Reid is all flash with no results......

Tant is bang on with his assessment on Reid.

If he can't outplay a top 6 forward he sure isn't going to be put on a checking lne or a grinding line.

Hansen has been working hard and getting results - that's why he's still here....

If Reid had done anything close to that then maybe there would be an argument to take a closer look.

Sorry Clam... I just think you're wrong on this one....


So you think that Santala and Chouinard HAVE shown results close to Hansen?
I have no problem w/ Hansen being here...but Santala makes me shake my head & Chouinard has been an utter disappointment (as many Minny fans laughed & said he would be).
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Postby ClamRussel » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:24 am

jchockey wrote:It's not as if Reid HAS TO play C. He has tradtionally never been strong in the face-off circle, not to mention his small size. Why not use him on the right side with the Sedins? With the Sedins' passing Reid could get a lot of breakaways - the only downside is Reid is more of a run n' gun player rather than a cycle player.

With Reid on the second line you can have Pyatt and Bulis on the third, and Pyatt from what I've heard has shown pretty good offensive ability thus far.

Naslund - Morrison - Cooke
Sedin - Sedin - Reid
Pyatt - Santala - Bulis
Burrows - Kesler - Linden

Now you have 2 solid scoring lines, a third line that can play defense and offense, and a fourth line that brings energy along with a veteran.


See now, those lines make sense if you were to think outside of the box...as Vigneault claimed he was going to do...he said he wasn't going to put guys in preconceived slots and would try new things & combos. He hasn't really tried anything too different.....I would have liked to have seen Linden play on one of the top 2 lines. He is certainly big enough to go to the net on behalf of Naslund and fast enough to play with the Sedins. Hell, if Klatt could do it so could Trevor. I would just have liked to have seen some really different line combos. I do like the idea of trying to get Pyatt going with some prime icetime.
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Postby ClamRussel » Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:27 am

Hank wrote:
magnum44 wrote:I've always been a Reid supporter but when you look at him objectively...


Yeah that's what most fans aren't... objective.

He has not shown any finish or the ability to set up others to finish. Neither has he shown defensive brilliance, or a willingness to mix it up, or be a pest or contribute in other meaningful ways.

Because of his size and skillset his opportunities here are limited. That's life. He can't beat out the top forwards or outcheck the bottom lines. If this was the Buffalo system or we're really bad like a low budget expansion team, then he's got a good chance.

AV would be moronic to keep Reid in the lineup. Until the season proves otherwise, this is still a team on the bubble of a playoff spot. You have to have NHLers with experience in the lineup even if they are only borderline NHLers.


...and I repeat....Santala?

Besides that, Reid has more NHL experience than Hansen & Rypien combined so that blows that argument. Agreed Reid hasn't shown enough yet & has lots to prove but its not like th 25 players sitll here don't either.
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Postby rikster » Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:57 am

He has not shown any finish or the ability to set up others to finish


His NHL stats include 2 goals and 6 points in 10 games...

His NHL/Moose stats include 55 goals and 149 points in 206 games which makes me wonder why you would make such a statement?...

It's unfortunate that his coach during his previous stay in Manitoba was Smyl and not Carlye or Vigneault...

I'm not overly disappointed that Reid was sent down because I think he will be an early call up ...

Vigneault expects very short and very energetic shifts from all 4 lines which is tailor made for a player like Reid, especially on the third or fourth lines ...

Take care..
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Postby Fred » Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:04 am

rikster wrote:
[
I'm not overly disappointed that Reid was sent down because I think he will be an early call up ...

Vigneault expects very short and very energetic shifts from all 4 lines which is tailor made for a player like Reid, especially on the third or fourth lines ...

Take care..


Yeah I can see it to ... but if it's not due to injury who would you send down, and don't say CHouinard because at US$1 he ain't going to the Moose
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Postby Harold » Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:15 am

ClamRussel wrote:
Harold wrote:
ClamRussel wrote:
tantalum wrote:everything I've read is that Reid hasn't been impressive at all. He makes a nice rush or two but ultimately does nothing. It's pretty much time to simply admit that Reid is not NHL ready.


Not sure where you're getting that tant, everything I've been hearing is just the opposite in that he been one of the FEW players who's actually CREATING offensive opportunities and that he was one of the standout forwards in most every game he played. True he hadn't been finishing his chances but thats nothing to worry about....when an offensive player doesn't create chances then you should worry. Aside from the Sedins & say Kesler....who's been more impressive INCLUDING veterans on a regular basis during this preseason?


Clam everyone that I've talked to that has seen Reid this camp and in the pre-season games has a similar opinion to Tant: he has a couple good rushes, but ultimately nothing happens. I think you might be overrating his play a bit. If he was one of the standout forwards on the team, don't you think they would have kept him in camp a bit longer just to give him more of a look?
A guy like Reid has to score and generate offence to be worth something to the team, and outside of the first game he hasn't done anything. I think if Reid had have been lighting it up like a guy like Hansen, who scored in most of the scrimmages and games he has played in, he would unquestionably still be with the big club. Hansen has shown through his play that he deserves a longer look with the Canucks, Reid hasn't shown that. Simple as that.


Ok, I'll ask you this....what has Santala shown?

Contracts aside, what has Chouinard shown?

See my point?
This was a VERY lacklustre training camp for ALOT of players....I don't think I was overrating Reid and I actually DON'T think he was spectacular or a slam-dunk by any means....my viewpoint comes from the fact I don't think the majority of players at this camp showed much of anything, let alone hustle or <gasp> offence. It was more a jab at some of the other guys...many of whom are still w/ the club.


Chouinard isn't a fair comparison. He is an established NHL player with 278 NHL games experience, unlike Reid. When Nonis signed Chouinard to a 2 year $1.1M year contract, Chouinard was automatically given a slot on the team. And he didn't come to training camp having to fight for a spot on the team, unlike an unproven commodity like Reid.
I know Chouinard has had a bad camp, but he had previously earned is spot. Are you going to tell me that every veteran player should earn his spot or face being waived? Naslund hasn't had a spectacular camp, does that mean he faces being waived or demoted to the Moose? Of course not. It really doesn't matter how bad of a camp the vets had, because Reid wasn't competing for spots with guys like Chouinard or Naslund, he was competing with guys like Rypien, Hansen, Santala, etc.
Santala, however like Reid, based on his limited experience does have to earn his spot. And he isn't yet a shoe-in yet for a spot on the opening-day roster either, but I've seen more from him so far than I have Reid. Santala is a bigger bodied two-way player on the bottom lines, and is good in the face-off circle, something that we were lacking last year. I would say his offensive potential is similar to that of Reid's, so just that fact that he brings the other intangibles that Reid doesn't probably gave him the extra look.
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Postby MarkMM » Sun Oct 01, 2006 12:52 pm

I like Reid and think that if put on the fourth line, he can provide an offensive spark in what is supposed to be a more balanced team that rolls four lines, all defensively responsible with a threat of offense, so it's not a traditional 1/2 versus 3/4 line scenario.

That said, I don't think comparisons to Chouinard especially and even Santala to a degree are fair. As Harold mentioned, Chouinard hasn't had to demonstrate a lot in the pre-season, he's not being evaluated. Moreover, it's his face-off ability, size, defensive responsibility and penalty-killing he was picked up for, Reid is not as strong in any of these.

Santala is in the same mold as Chouinard, although he had to earn his spot on the team, he was brought in to provide toughness, size and face-off ability, from what I've heard, he's done his part on face-off ability and size and toughness are his game.

So while Reid may have stood out more offensively, he did not do his job as well as perhaps Santala and Chouinard had to, they're value is less visible but is there nonetheless. Reid had to provide enough offense, including finishing ability, to outweigh the size, face-off ability and checking that Chouinard and Santala provide, and that's where I think Reid has failed the test, though I do hope we continue to develop him, the raw ability IMO is there.
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Postby SRsez » Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:09 pm

Reid's problem, as it always has been, is size. It is imperative that he play centre, because he just doesn't have the size to go up & down the boards, not in the NHL. That makes him a tough fit for the Canucks. Perhaps he would do better with another team, but I have no idea what that team might be.
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Postby Fred » Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:52 pm

Reid is a #1 or 2 centre, he can't cut the down low coverage in his own end, so unless he plays on a top line with a winger willing to do the low coverage his cahnces are slim where ever IMO
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Postby SRsez » Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:30 pm

Fred wrote:Reid is a #1 or 2 centre, he can't cut the down low coverage in his own end, so unless he plays on a top line with a winger willing to do the low coverage his cahnces are slim where ever IMO


Yes, that was exactly my point. No way has he earned the right to play before Henrik or Mo, so where does that leave him? If he could get a chance on a #3 line with some size & offensive ability, then yes, but again, it ain't going to happen in VanCity.
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Postby Hank » Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:54 pm

rikster wrote:

His NHL stats include 2 goals and 6 points in 10 games...

His NHL/Moose stats include 55 goals and 149 points in 206 games which makes me wonder why you would make such a statement?...


Rikster, I respect your opinions but first of all what does AHL numbers matter? See Goren and Shultz. Second, blindly quoting NHL stats doesn't mean he is an NHL player.

How did he get his points, were they meaningful or were they in garbage time? Against good teams or crappy teams? That's why I would make these statements. Besides, I was talking about this preseason camp and not 2003 or whenever that was. This is 2007.

The other posters are right. He has not done anything that warrants a spot. Again, the argument is he is not good enough for to be in the top 6 and not good enough to be in the bottom 6. Yes there is some 1-way contract bias, but Santala and Rypien are bottom sixers who are probably going to sit in the pressbox. Anyone who can argue Reid over Chouinard as an NHLer needs a dose of reality.
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