US Erection 12 *AND* 16 *AND* 20 *AND* 22 *AND* 24

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Topper
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Topper »

Cornuck wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 11:20 am So higher prices coming for American manufacturers, and in turn consumers.

And of course, an increase in tariffs on US exports, so yes - US steel companies will benefit, but there will likely be more harm than good to the overall economy.
Especially when steel and aluminum production in the US was gutted over 30 years ago with the death of the rust belt. There isn't the capacity in the domestic supply to insulated manufacturers and consumers of steel and aluminum.

This is pressure added to the NAFTA negotiations. Screw turning.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by 2Fingers »

Topper wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:36 pm
Cornuck wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 11:20 am So higher prices coming for American manufacturers, and in turn consumers.

And of course, an increase in tariffs on US exports, so yes - US steel companies will benefit, but there will likely be more harm than good to the overall economy.
Especially when steel and aluminum production in the US was gutted over 30 years ago with the death of the rust belt. There isn't the capacity in the domestic supply to insulated manufacturers and consumers of steel and aluminum.

This is pressure added to the NAFTA negotiations
. Screw turning.
Agree on this part Top, but trump scares me enough to have him want this permanently. Also what will his followers think once it changes again.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Per »

rats19 wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 11:13 am
Reefer2 wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 8:05 am Hope none of you are in the steel business.

Yep - greatest president ever.
Who is it bad for reef? Not American steel companies...
No, but for eg American consumers, builders and car manufacturers as they will have to pay more for inferior products.
And for American farmers and export companies as the EU, Canada and Mexico impose countermeasures.

Basically it is bad for everyone, except initially for a handful of US steel and aluminium producers. Yet in the long run they also lose out as the buying power of their customers erodes, and typically protected industries over time grow less competitive, see eg the Soviet Union, so when the tide turns and they face free trade and competition on equal terms again, they have grown complacent and lazy and tend to fail.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Strangelove »

Topper wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:36 pm This is pressure added to the NAFTA negotiations. Screw turning.
THIS

Per wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:32 pm So, Trump is definitely crazy.
Crazy like a fox...
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Strangelove »

Reefer2 wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 11:34 am
rats19 wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 11:13 am
Reefer2 wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 8:05 am Hope none of you are in the steel business.

Yep - greatest president ever.
Who is it bad for reef? Not American steel companies...

Remember reef he is not your president he does what he does for his country not the other countries.
The perfect - he can impose tariffs on everything coming into his country and that will allow every other country to impose tariffs on items coming from the USA. You do know that this will just increase and it will have a negative impact on Canada as the USA is our largest trading partner. This is not just about steel and aluminum.
He can't hear you Ratski...
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Per »

Here's what happened the last time the US was dumb enough to try a steel tariff

http://nordic.businessinsider.com/bush- ... ?r=US&IR=T

There are no winners in a trade war. Every one loses.
And especially the consumer.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by 2Fingers »

Strangelove wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 1:04 pm
Reefer2 wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 11:34 am
rats19 wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 11:13 am
Reefer2 wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 8:05 am Hope none of you are in the steel business.

Yep - greatest president ever.
Who is it bad for reef? Not American steel companies...

Remember reef he is not your president he does what he does for his country not the other countries.
The perfect - he can impose tariffs on everything coming into his country and that will allow every other country to impose tariffs on items coming from the USA. You do know that this will just increase and it will have a negative impact on Canada as the USA is our largest trading partner. This is not just about steel and aluminum.
He can't hear you Ratski...
I’m not sure if you intentionally are being silly or your reading comprehension is that bad. I think you have selective reading syndrome.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Strangelove »

Image

MAGA not MCGA

"Yep - greatest president ever."
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by ukcanuck »

At what point does the rest of the free world give trump the swinging middle finger in the air and start excluding Americans from trade deals?

I mean if the US is slapping tariffs on everyone else who are in the same businesses, why not a Canada/ Mexico/ EU deal on steel and aluminum in a combined retaliation?

Seems logical to me that if trump keeps pushing away trade partners, he is also pushing those same trade partners together?
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by 2Fingers »

ukcanuck wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 7:17 pm At what point does the rest of the free world give trump the swinging middle finger in the air and start excluding Americans from trade deals?

I mean if the US is slapping tariffs on everyone else who are in the same businesses, why not a Canada/ Mexico/ EU deal on steel and aluminum in a combined retaliation?

Seems logical to me that if trump keeps pushing away trade partners, he is also pushing those same trade partners together?
Trump wouldn’t understand, too many words and it doesn’t fit on Twitter.
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Per »

Topper wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 12:36 pm
Cornuck wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 11:20 am So higher prices coming for American manufacturers, and in turn consumers.

And of course, an increase in tariffs on US exports, so yes - US steel companies will benefit, but there will likely be more harm than good to the overall economy.
Especially when steel and aluminum production in the US was gutted over 30 years ago with the death of the rust belt. There isn't the capacity in the domestic supply to insulated manufacturers and consumers of steel and aluminum.

This is pressure added to the NAFTA negotiations. Screw turning.
If it is all about Nafta, why include China and the EU? :hmmm:

And the tactics are too simplistic. And also, they force the opponents to impose countermeasures, as that is the only way to stay in the game, which means that the USA will get hurt at least as bad as they attempt to hurt the others.
The game of chicken predicts that as the opponent becomes more aggressive, retaliation is the only way to stay in the game – and all the more so as the opponent becomes more aggressive. Indeed, by being more aggressive itself, the EU gets either 1 (10 out of 22) or 2 (10 out of 22). Most of the time therefore, (20 out of 22) the EU gets a good outcome.

This implies that as the US threatens to impose sanctions, the EU must effectively match the threat with actions! And this is true irrespective of whether the US actually has less to lose (in fact, the rhetoric will have us believe that this number (-1) should even be positive – not negative all all), or if it is just bluffing. It is the only way for the EU to avoid ending up in the position of having 0 all the time, as the US claims 2, and instead occasionally claiming the 2 for itself. In the process, however, free trade is in very real danger of collapsing.

This is actually why the rhetoric that is coming out of Washington is not just an act of protectionism that distorts bilateral trade; it is a threat to the world multilateral system, as it induces retaliatory aggression.

And this is why the EU has important reservations: it wants to act as a defender of the multilateral system. To this end, it is adopting an attitude of appeasement, containment and negotiation. And it is a reasonable (in the first instance, at least) reaction, to a game that effectively should never be played. But here we are, forced into an aggressive game of chicken, in which the effort to appease also amounts to admitting defeat.

So, what should be the EU’s reaction?

First, be prepared to act. Adopting measures that can impact the US economic interests in Europe need to be prepared, and in place to be used.
http://bruegel.org/2018/05/the-eu-shoul ... -on-trade/
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Per »

ukcanuck wrote: Thu May 31, 2018 7:17 pm At what point does the rest of the free world give trump the swinging middle finger in the air and start excluding Americans from trade deals?

I mean if the US is slapping tariffs on everyone else who are in the same businesses, why not a Canada/ Mexico/ EU deal on steel and aluminum in a combined retaliation?

Seems logical to me that if trump keeps pushing away trade partners, he is also pushing those same trade partners together?
Yup. There are voices declaring that as the US is becoming increasingly unreliable as a partner; not living up to its commitments, withdrawing from signed treaties, etc, the EU should instead try to increase trade and cooperation with China.

And we already did sign a free trade agreement with Canada.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehen ... _Agreement
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Per »

The republican standpoint:
“My position remains unchanged: Tariffs on steel and aluminum imports are a tax hike on Americans and will have damaging consequences for consumers, manufacturers and workers. We should build on our success in overhauling the nation's tax code with complementary trade policies that, rather than favoring one narrow industry, make all sectors of the US economy more competitive. In light of the mounting evidence that these tariffs will harm Americans, I will continue to push the administration to change course.”
Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT), the President Pro Tempore of the United States Senate and Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee

https://www.hatch.senate.gov/public/ind ... nsequences
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Per »

The EU response, 25% tariffs on 890 US products, including motorcycles, yachts, jeans, bed linen, tobacco, corn, rice, cranberries, bourbon, peanut butter and orange juice.
http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2 ... 156909.pdf

And a 10% tariff on playing cards.

See if you can trump that. :drink:

The EU measures will primarily punish industries in states that voted for Trump in 2016, which according to EU trade commissionary Cecilia Markström is purely coincidental. :wink:
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Re: US Erection 12 *AND* 16

Post by Cornuck »

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