Kesliracy Theory

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Kesliracy Theory

Postby ClamRussel » Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:49 pm

I can't shake the feeling that Clarke's offersheet to Kesler has some connection to all those Nalsund/Gagne rumours that refused to die all summer. I don't doubt losing Primeau forced Clarke's hand....but it also freed up cap room...I dunno, somethings fishy there. It wouldn't be the first time a signing was personal.....think back to Van-NY/Gretzky-Messier for evidence of that.

Nonis mentioned Clarke made a bid for Kesler earlier this summer....perhaps it was a bigger deal like Nalsund & Kesler for Gagne & Richards or something like that...and something went wrong. Who knows, its possible....in fact VERY possible.
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Postby trevor corey » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:59 am

The truth is out there.
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Postby Jyrki21 » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:49 am

I really don't see this being personal, nor do I think the signing of Messier ever was. That was simply borne of disappointment in not getting Gretzky, not an attempt to seek revenge on the Rangers by signing a player who wasn't even their property anymore...
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Postby hehateme » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:51 pm

if that was the deal Gagne and Richards for Naslund and Kesler..................... Nonis should have been all over it. Seems that the GM's and fans in Vancouver get emotionally attached to there players and won't trade them because they 'like them'.
That deal would have been great, Naslund will retire in a year or so anyways.

It makes me feel like vomiting just thinking bout it, please stop posting these rumors so I can stay in reality, thanks
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Postby Island Nucklehead » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:30 pm

A more plausible rumour would be Naslund AND Kesler for Gagne, with Kesler being the piece that Nonis wouldn't give up...
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Postby ClamRussel » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:40 pm

Jyrki21 wrote:I really don't see this being personal, nor do I think the signing of Messier ever was. That was simply borne of disappointment in not getting Gretzky, not an attempt to seek revenge on the Rangers by signing a player who wasn't even their property anymore...


Believe whatcha want, its not rumour...a pretty well known inside fact that Orca Bay had their heart set on Gretz....with a huge deal all but signed....that went sour (thanx Mr. McCammon!)...and Orca Bay DID in fact take it personal that they were back-doored....O.B. knew there was one way they could seek revenge....Mr. heart&soul of the Rangers was up for a contract the very next summer. Pat Quinn was not in favour of bringing Messier here, that was ownership's deal.
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Postby magnum44 » Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:02 pm

I think Clarke honestly wanted Kesler and giving him the 1.9 offer was just a game of brinksmanship with Nonis, but I'm sure in the back of his mind Clarke figured that if Nonis matched (which Nonis reportedly told him he would before the offersheet) it would be a little lesson to the rookie GM that "you don't fuck with Bob Clarke". Whether it was payback for a broken Naslund deal, resentment for getting Luongo over Philly's bid, or just a message to the league that you better give Clarke what he wants or he'll take out your ankles.
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Postby Grizzly » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:16 pm

magnum44 wrote:I think Clarke honestly wanted Kesler and giving him the 1.9 offer was just a game of brinksmanship with Nonis, but I'm sure in the back of his mind Clarke figured that if Nonis matched (which Nonis reportedly told him he would before the offersheet) it would be a little lesson to the rookie GM that "you don't fuck with Bob Clarke". Whether it was payback for a broken Naslund deal, resentment for getting Luongo over Philly's bid, or just a message to the league that you better give Clarke what he wants or he'll take out your ankles.


Yep ... Clarkie was just testing out DN. Notice he stayed under 2.0 mil ... I am pretty sure in this but wouldn't it have been a first and a third round pick if he had offered 2mil ??

I wonder what kind of can of worm this opens and presents for other GM's trying to "do in" their fellow GM's who are in tight salary fits ... certainly it is a interesting and crafty move by Clark. Love him or hate him ... what did they say "He would push his grandmother down the stairs to win"

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Postby Goon2 » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:59 pm

Clarke is saying he's put the last piece in place -- signing Ken Hitchcock. Will the stache suit up a play centre?
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Postby MarkMM » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:10 pm

Grizzly wrote:
magnum44 wrote:I think Clarke honestly wanted Kesler and giving him the 1.9 offer was just a game of brinksmanship with Nonis, but I'm sure in the back of his mind Clarke figured that if Nonis matched (which Nonis reportedly told him he would before the offersheet) it would be a little lesson to the rookie GM that "you don't fuck with Bob Clarke". Whether it was payback for a broken Naslund deal, resentment for getting Luongo over Philly's bid, or just a message to the league that you better give Clarke what he wants or he'll take out your ankles.


Yep ... Clarkie was just testing out DN. Notice he stayed under 2.0 mil ... I am pretty sure in this but wouldn't it have been a first and a third round pick if he had offered 2mil ??

I wonder what kind of can of worm this opens and presents for other GM's trying to "do in" their fellow GM's who are in tight salary fits ... certainly it is a interesting and crafty move by Clark. Love him or hate him ... what did they say "He would push his grandmother down the stairs to win"

Grizz


That's my assessment as well, and I'd like Nonis to come right back twice as hard and write offer sheets for Clarke's prized RFA's, both this year AND the next. Our core is basically locked up long term with the notable exception of Krajicek, and Clarke has to know (as well as other GM's who are probably pissed at Clarke but curious about Nonis) that we can dish it worse than we will take it...it's a bit of a safe bet, if we're smart about it, we shouldn't offer sheets to players we wouldn't like to have, if he matches, he pays more than he would have liked, and maybe a few times over with different players, but if he doesn't match, we get some nice players and can trade other parts of the roster to make up for the lost draft picks. Also, the RFA's will still have a few years left on them restricted, so that lessens possible loss of picks, but I don't think the damage there will be much as he'll have to match most if not all our offers otherwise he's in a worse place than if we lost Kesler.
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Postby Soapy » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:41 am

"where there is smoke the is fire" is such an easy explanation for this ...but it is such a great story that it desevers a bit more...soooooooo the Gagne / Naslund stories must have been true....Clarke is stabbing at the remains of the trade in a a "don't mess with me tone'.......he has Forsberg, Carter, Cullen, Umberger...he does not suck at center...so why the play at Kesler...>>>FU>>K.ER....
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Postby ClamRussel » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:03 pm

I knew a guy who was a contractor.....and there was this job up for a bid.....he didn't want to work w/ the company doing the construction whatsoever.....but was asked to bid.....so he puts in this ludicrous offer thinking....if he declines then I didn't want it anyways so great....but if he pays then I'm rolling in it and I'll do it.....the guy accepted so my friend made some serious ass coin that was far more than his work warranted. I think this is sorta the thinking Clarke had here...two fold.....he plays poker w/ Nonis....makes the offer that he thinks Dave will balk at (2-3x Kesler's worth)....yet makes it *just* high enough so he doesn't loose anything worthwhile in compensation.....but if Nonis matches then he screws us and gets his (alleged) revenge. Its a win-win situation for Clarke EXCEPT for the fact he's now screwed w/ the value of young 4th line players AND he's now seen as even more of an asshole (if thats possible)...but then again, he doesn't care, never has. He didn't win any friends thats for sure.
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Postby MarkMM » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:13 pm

ClamRussel wrote:I knew a guy who was a contractor.....and there was this job up for a bid.....he didn't want to work w/ the company doing the construction whatsoever.....but was asked to bid.....so he puts in this ludicrous offer thinking....if he declines then I didn't want it anyways so great....but if he pays then I'm rolling in it and I'll do it.....the guy accepted so my friend made some serious ass coin that was far more than his work warranted. I think this is sorta the thinking Clarke had here...two fold.....he plays poker w/ Nonis....makes the offer that he thinks Dave will balk at (2-3x Kesler's worth)....yet makes it *just* high enough so he doesn't loose anything worthwhile in compensation.....but if Nonis matches then he screws us and gets his (alleged) revenge. Its a win-win situation for Clarke EXCEPT for the fact he's now screwed w/ the value of young 4th line players AND he's now seen as even more of an asshole (if thats possible)...but then again, he doesn't care, never has. He didn't win any friends thats for sure.


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Postby SRsez » Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:30 pm

Okay, let's clear up something here. A player on a "one-way" contract, to my understanding, is paid a single wage, regardless of whether he plays in the NHL or AHL. He is not guaranteed a spot on the NHL roster. Sure he may or may not be subject to waivers, but that doesn't mean he can't be sent down.

Now I'm not suggesting that could be the case with Kesler, but it could definitely be the case for quite a few of these marginal guys with that kind of deal. We know the Canucks are making money. I am willing to assume Winnipeg is doing likewise. Would it be so bad to pay a guy $450k to play in Winnipeg, or lose him to waivers(assuming it applies, and I'm not sure who that does or does not cover)?

It's not a great solution, but it definitely means the cap is avoidable with the talent we have right now.
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Postby Robert » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:38 am

ClamRussel wrote:Believe whatcha want, its not rumour...a pretty well known inside fact that Orca Bay had their heart set on Gretz....with a huge deal all but signed....that went sour (thanx Mr. McCammon!)...and Orca Bay DID in fact take it personal that they were back-doored....O.B. knew there was one way they could seek revenge....Mr. heart&soul of the Rangers was up for a contract the very next summer. Pat Quinn was not in favour of bringing Messier here, that was ownership's deal.


So we got screwed twice. First on losing Gretzky, then on gaining messier. Man those were bad years.
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